baijiu

[HDNB]

so i was just looking at the top selling boozes for the planet and distillers making baijiu top the list, like six out of the top 10.

I've just learned of the product and i'm surprised all the likker geeks here have not had more to say on the subject.

are we lacking in chinese membership here?

what do y'all know about this stuff? i'm supposing 2.6 billion people can't be wrong....we need some recipes!

[NZChris]

I've made rice liquor, but going by the descriptions of Baijiu that I've read, I did a better job of the cuts than most Baijiu distillers do.

To get an idea of the taste, try making a rice wash using Angel yellow label, distill it taking stupidly greedy cuts, then don't proof it down to any ABV that is easily drinkable.

[acfixer69]

Its probable cheaper to buy it then make it as GNS

[Twisted Brick]

so i was just looking at the top selling boozes for the planet and distillers making baijiu top the list, like six out of the top 10.

I've just learned of the product and i'm surprised all the likker geeks here have not had more to say on the subject.

are we lacking in chinese membership here?

what do y'all know about this stuff? i'm supposing 2.6 billion people can't be wrong....we need some recipes!

I have not tasted baijiu, but from reading, it is very close to the Japanese spirit shochu, as both are distilled from rice. While in Japan, I had the opportunity to drink a dozen or so expressions of shochu and found them all essentially the same.

NZChris’s description of rice alcohol mirrors my experience with commercial shochu, in essence: a thin, narrow-flavored alcoholic beverage lacking any familiar (to us) sweet grain character, but rather with a hint of rice and bite that reveals it was distilled with little concerns for cuts. Since shochu is traditionally bottled at 25%ABV, I can imagine baijiu with the same insipid flavor profile, but with a monumental burn (bottled at 35% - 60%ABV). Without the benefit of flavors derived from multiple-grains or barrel-aging, the spirit (at least shochu) tends to come off as one-dimensional. Also, China does not hold its distillers to the same quality standards as in say, Scotland or the US.

In China, baijiu is used as a symbol of social status and has a deep-rooted tradition in family sharing and dining. Hence, the massive global consumption numbers. Efforts to introduce baijiu into the European and US liquor markets have proved difficult. According to the US Distillery Council, as of 2018, baijiu represented less than 1% of the liquor sold in the US. (Contrast that with the explosive growth of scotch whiskey in China, projected in 2022 to be $3B US, due to the country's 400 million heretofore upwardly mobile millennials).

Six months is the minimum period that a baijiu can be left to age. Anything less than this would be too harsh for the human throat to accept, and would irritate the oesophagus. A more reputable brand, however, may be left to age for as long as five years.

Personally, I don't plan on giving baijiu a go, but I bet a member with some angel-yeast could get relatively close to the commercial brands without too much effort.

[LWTCS]

I find it more or less undrinkable, and my heartburn flares up every single time I've tried to make myself learn how to drink it.

However I have had some nice rice whiskey.

[rubberduck71]

I made some tasty rice wine with the Angel Yeast. Best batch was made in my basement (~65F).

I made additional batches, distilled/oaked it, making my usual strict cuts. It came out "ok," but as mentioned above, lacked complexity and/or boring.

Next batch, I may mess around with adding additional grains.

[Bushman]

I have never had an interest in making rice whiskey for several reasons. The mixed review doesn’t impress me enough to try it. Also haven’t priced the material as I didn’t think it would be readily available as is other grains.

[rubberduck71]

I have never had an interest in making rice whiskey for several reasons. The mixed review doesn’t impress me enough to try it. Also haven’t priced the material as I didn’t think it would be readily available as is other grains.

Price-wise it's not bad: 50# bag of medium grain Calrose @ Sam's club is $33. Most 50# bags of grain are >$50-75.

I may try a barley/rice combo to see how flavor comes out...

[zed255]

I've done rice whiskey with a conventional mash and liquid enzymes and using the Angel Yellow Label. Both turned out well, though the starting wine was nicer tasting with the conventional mash it didn't change the final product much.

Light application of some French Oak turned out nicely. It is not a complex spirit but pleasant.

I think rice would make a stellar base for a vodka with its gentle sweetness and smooth mouthfeel.

[jonnys_spirit]

I'd like to experiment with this a bit at some point. Sake and rice wines can be quite diverse and enjoyable in my opinion. Maybe something in the spirit of a 1.5 run with feints and stillage recycled to concentrate flavors - maybe some maceration or infusion of koji fermented grains - maybe even proofing down with rice wine whether sweet or not and clear/cloudy? I believe some asian spirits similar to sochu and baiju do also use barley/wheat and maybe other grains - probably depending on the local availability.

As far as industrial commodity spirits not being that great I'd suggest that this is mostly accurate across the planet - same with back woods single run hooch made cheap and fast. In my mind craft and artistry exists somewhere between those extremes in expression...

Japan does make some very respectable single malt and I received a bottle of Indian single malt for christmas that I'm enjoying made from grain grown at the base of the himalayas..

Cheers!
-j

[HDNB]

so what you're saying is they take the sake that is too shit to drink and distill it into crap hootch with no cuts?

Sounds like something i could do!

i imagine from the comments there is a whole big world of improvement we could do, just making a nice rice wine distilling with proper cuts and aging on some decent wood.
gonna have to give it a go after i get through my pile of malt rye.

[rubberduck71]

I think rice would make a stellar base for a vodka with its gentle sweetness and smooth mouthfeel.

My last batch of NGS was made from rice. I'm not much of a vodka drinker, but my wife said it was "evil smooth." More likely because I'm ultra conservative when making my cuts. Regardless, it was great to hear!

[NZChris]

I'm sure most of us try to make our products more enjoyable than the commercial versions.

You can take more than one cut, so you could take a percentage of each jar to make a super wide cut to fit the descriptions of Baijiu, then use your usual method to choose a nice heart cut.

[Yummyrum]

I know this is about Chinese Rice spirit , but my wife bought me back 3 different Rice Sochu from Japan .
I can honestly say that they are not all rough .
The one on the Left was smooth as anything and had obviously spent some time in wood as it had a pale brown colour . The one in the blue bottle was pretty rough . Still very nice and had a distinctive Rice flavour .
The one in the Choo choo train bottle was midway .

And again not from China , but on a trip to Vietnam , we came across one of the last operating Rice moonshine stills.
I asked the guide that showed me this if they did any cuts ?
He was puzzled . Turns out they single distill and keep everything .Surprisingly , sample I was given from dare I say , a plastic bottle , didn’t taste as bad as I imagined it would .

[seedfarm]

I've had Shochu and Soju a few times and it's....fine. The ones I've had have been like vodka. They are not at all like the baiju I've tried.

My friend was in a Chinese restaurant and the Chinese nationals at the next table were slamming shots of something and getting lairy. At the end of the meal they left him with 2/3 of a bottle of Moutai baiju. We used it as punishment shots during house parties and it was the most unique spirit I've ever had.

Moutai is apparently one of the class of "sauce" flavoured baiju. It was a bit like soy or fish sauce, but really reminded us of the smell of fish food like you feed to goldfish. The taste was fish food times 1000 mixed with acetone.

Turns out it's made mostly of sorgham and goes through a baffling multi stage fermentation:

https://www.diffordsguide.com/encyclope ... -or-moutai

[SGB]

I think that many shoju and Soju are distilled with a stack or reflux still do the flavors are distilled out. But there is also a lot that are not. Kaoliang for example tastes nothing like vodka at all and rice washes that are distilled with a pot still also will not taste like vodka but a more truer traditional Baiju. I make it for my Chinese friends here and they love it for me it reminds me of a Taipei hangover or a Seouls night out. Even though I do tight cuts of hearts . Traditional rice alcohols definitely have their own unique flavor. That's why many will multiply distill to try and get it to neutral. Same like Bali Arak. If it's not distilled, it's harsh

[Metalking00]

I like the bali arak, though it made me puke the whole way over to gili trawangan .

I recently finished a run of short grain polished rice fermented with yellow label yeast and at first i wasnt impressed. Most of the run had a tailsy finish that i didnt like, but the actual tails were great. It had a taste of rice straw (like a haybale) with what i would describe as cinnamon without the heat, and a cool aftertaste in the bottom of the throat similar to menthol. I let it run until it was just water, and there were no foul tails tastes. I even considered just keeping the tails, but decided to blend with the hearts cut to try to give the main body of the run a better flavor and feel. Now im not so disappointed.

[rubberduck71]

I recently finished a run of short grain polished rice fermented with yellow label yeast and at first i wasnt impressed. Most of the run had a tailsy finish that i didnt like, but the actual tails were great. It had a taste of rice straw (like a haybale) with what i would describe as cinnamon without the heat, and a cool aftertaste in the bottom of the throat similar to menthol. I let it run until it was just water, and there were no foul tails tastes. I even considered just keeping the tails, but decided to blend with the hearts cut to try to give the main body of the run a better flavor and feel. Now im not so disappointed.

Did you keep it white, or oak/age it?

[Metalking00]

I kept half white and i put the other half with once used medium toasted dominoes. At the moment it is a light straw color. Im keeping an eye on it, i dont think i want it to get too dark, but i feel a bit of wood would smooth it out and give some depth. Im hoping the tails taste develops without losing its character. Its only a week or so old, so it has plenty of time to change.

[SGB]

I kept half white and i put the other half with once used medium toasted dominoes. At the moment it is a light straw color. Im keeping an eye on it, i dont think i want it to get too dark, but i feel a bit of wood would smooth it out and give some depth. Im hoping the tails taste develops without losing its character. Its only a week or so old, so it has plenty of time to change.

I always just take the central hearts and chuck the rest. I found it to be the most palatable for me

[SGB]

You in Indo? Metalking
I bought a bunch of palm sugar thinking it was coconut but my wife informed me it was the palm used for Arak. I distilled it but it smelled so caustic I almost threw up. But locals alk said it was great Arak... Not for me.

[Metalking00]

Im not in indonesia anymore, but i was there for a while. While the arak definitely wouldnt be my first choice, one can only drink so much bintang before needing to change it up a bit...

I recall an old thread where someone had been experimenting with palm sugar and had good, although not very exciting results.

[skippy]

I have had Moutai baijiu that my son brought back from China. Did a little research and it seems it is largely made from sorghum, with some grains occasionally. It is my understanding that it is mashed using koji, fermented, distilled then stored in clay pots in the ground. I tried a batch, as a nod to the kid. I had some koji from a previous sake attempt. I went with straight sorghum, no grain. Took healthy cuts and did a side-by-side comparison to the Moutai. Not quite. Actually, not that close. Apparently the clay pot aging has an effect.