Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby zapata » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:37 pm

Lol, and that is why you have a different opinion than most here :) By the way, I've actually done what you are doing for drinking liquor with waste from a Swedish bakery. it was interesting. Kinda All over the place pot stilled, but as an almost vodka from the reflux rig it was unique and worth doing. So maybe taste some of your fuel if you equipment is consumption geade.

Just happened across these guys mentioned in a rum thread, and laughed when I read this in their faq:
http://www.whitestaryeast.com/about/faq#f17
Can the yeast be re-pitched and how many times?
Yes, but as the yeast reverts back to slurry, the pitching quantity needs to be increased by at least 10% Extra care also needs to be taken with regard to maintaining the microbiological purity of the yeast when recycling. A maximum of 2-3 cycles is a general guideline for most whiskey and rum strains, as long as the viability and relative sterility of the yeast is kept intact.

If a business selling yeast says to reuse slurry 2 or 3 times and just increase the pitch rate by 10%, I think that's pretty good validation.
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby Saltbush Bill » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:20 am

zapata wrote: A maximum of 2-3 cycles is a general guideline for most whiskey and rum strains,

PFFFFT at 2-3 cycles ....Ive been using the same yeast bed in my UJ now for over 50 gens / cycles. :lol: Its still working as well as the day I first pitched it.
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby fizzix » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:38 am

I'm not here to join the fracas, but to enter some real life current experience.

By sheer coincidence this is right up my alley for what I'm doing these days --harvesting yeast.
I took the Nottingham yeast bed from a beer brew 2 weeks ago and saved it in a 0.75 liter canning jar in the fridge.
Made up 18 gallons of Birdwatcher's last night (3 buckets), warmed the yeast to room temp from fridge storage and poured off the beer on top, and pitched equally.
The Birdwatcher's is going frantically this morning in all 3 buckets.

The quantity I'm sure is a factor, as 1/4 liter yeast in each bucket is more than a normal dry yeast pitch.
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby butterpants » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:29 am

zapata wrote:I know what you are saying is 90% true. 95% true for beer. There's just one problem.
I am saying that if you want to inoculate the next batch with the previous one, the active yeast is better.

Nope. Better by some measurements a scientist might make? Sure. Better in a practical manner for the home distiller? Not a chance. The logistics just don't work for most home distillers, when the wash is at high krausen, the fermenter is full. Most of us aren't in a production cycle that includes starting a new batch before the current wash is even done. Add to the fact that I give you a zero percent chance of tasting one of my spirits and accurately guessing if I pitched onto a yeast cake, krausened, or pitched a fresh starter. There just isn't really a "better" to it. Other than in theory, which as I mentioned, your theory is 100% correct. But pitching onto a yeast cake just flat out works fine.

I don't think anyone is being mislead, even beginners are capable of learning both theory and practicality.
My issue with pitching onto a cake in distilling is excessive trub and loss of wash even after cold crashing because I refuse to pour all that excess yeast n muck into my boiler.

For some Booners I recently did, the 2nd gen pitch onto cake (in a bucket) was eating up about 1.5 gallons. Maybe this is unique to corn squeezins but I found it unacceptable. Back to harvesting and repitch a smaller amount.
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby zapata » Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:22 pm

Yeah, that sounds like trub more than just yeast, but yes I can see that being a problem, especially in small fermenters. Pitching a smaller amount makes sense. Washing it would make sense in your case too. In beer, trub particles are heavier than yeast. Swirl the cake in excess water, and the trub drops out first while the water stays cloudy with yeast. You can pour off the yeast water, and let it settle to concentrate.

This might not be the case with your booners, depending on how you handle the corn I could see some really fine corn flour precipitate forming that might be difficult to wash out, not sure, and it might be specific to how one handles their corn.
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby MtRainier » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:19 am

I just did one of these pretty much straight by the recipe using SAF Gold bread yeast.

It was right on the money with 5-6 days of ferment and ending at 0.995 at 80 degrees after starting at 1.070.

I monitored pH each day and did end up doing additions of 14g of calcium carbonate each time the pH went below 4.

I get a fresh apple flavor when tasting it, but that's probably pretty normal. I remember that flavor from other high-sugar ferments I did with meads in the past.
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby Expat » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:42 am

You might consider using oyster shells instead of calcium carbonate powder. Adding a handful at beginning will normalize the ph throughout the fermentation.

Essentially the same chemical composition, but a heck of a lot cheaper.
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby MtRainier » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:28 am

Expat wrote:You might consider using oyster shells instead of calcium carbonate powder. Adding a handful at beginning will normalize the ph throughout the fermentation.

Essentially the same chemical composition, but a heck of a lot cheaper.


Would the crushed kind from TSC work ok in some cheesecloth or something or is there a benefit to having them whole?
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby Microplaned » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:49 am

I just started my first batch today! Used everything but the Epsom salts, didn’t have any handy. Also used Red star dady. I added an extra tbsp of dady because I got a bit heavy handed with the sugar! SG was 1.072 so I feel pretty good about the start! Already starting to burp a little, can’t wait!
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby TDick » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:51 am

Expat wrote:You might consider using oyster shells instead of calcium carbonate powder. Adding a handful at beginning will normalize the ph throughout the fermentation.

Essentially the same chemical composition, but a heck of a lot cheaper.


What about throwing a Tums in?
Active Ingredient (per tablet): Calcium Carbonate USP 500mg
Purpose: Antacid. All varieties of TUMS® Regular Strength product are Gluten Free & Kosher Pareve.
Each tablet contains: elemental calcium 200mg.
Assorted Fruit - Inactive Ingredients:
adipic acid, corn starch, FD&C blue #1 lake, FD&C red #40 lake, FD&C yellow #5 (tartrazine) lake, FD&C yellow #6 lake, flavors, mineral oil, sodium polyphosphate, sucrose, talc
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby MtRainier » Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:03 pm

I'd need a lot of tums if each has 0.5g of Calcium Carbonate. I put in a total of 3 additions of 14g, so 42g total. That would be 84 tums, lol. Maybe I overdid it, but it doesn't seem like some chalk will hurt it and it kept it from crashing. I have relatively soft water.
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby Microplaned » Sat Aug 25, 2018 5:30 pm

Microplaned wrote:I just started my first batch today! Used everything but the Epsom salts, didn’t have any handy. Also used Red star dady. I added an extra tbsp of dady because I got a bit heavy handed with the sugar! SG was 1.072 so I feel pretty good about the start! Already starting to burp a little, can’t wait!


Finished at 12.5%, ran it and got 3/4 gallon of really great clean likker! Great recipe!
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby StuNY » Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:29 pm

Thanks for a great recipe! My first wash and first distill and using my newly made Boka. Was finished fermenting in a week. 9% ABV. Next time I will give it another week to clear to see how it differs, but very happy with how it came out! Was able to get 95% ABV with the reflux and taste of the hearts are very clean!
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby Stokedonlife » Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:19 pm

So I have read all 1003 posts on this thread (most of them a couple times) and I’ve also read nearly every thread in the new/novice distillers area. I’m new to this hobby. This is my first wash however, I have brewed Kombucha for a few years and learned a lot about fermentation, sanitization, bottleing, etc. I usually run 5 gallon batches so this wash seemed right up my alley. I’m totally new to PH and SG though. I’ve wanted to get into this for a few years and thought I’d start with this. I just came into a custom setup from a local brewer with a 3” reflux still on a stainless 10gal keg. Officially, I want to distill for essential oils, haha. But figured this would be a good “cleaning/practice run” to learn my new gear. The motto I live by is “Go big or go home.” And it is true in this hobby too.

I planned on running a double batch and ended up with 6gal, 5gal and 2gal Carboys with a little headroom. I followed the directions to the tee for a double 6 gal wash. Using Dady brewing yeast. I used filtered water from the local fill station assuming it would be better then my tap water. The SG was really low so I had to add about 3-4 Lbs sugar to get it up over 1.07. It started off like a freight train. I didn’t check PH to start. It went totally dormant and stuck at 1.01 on day 11 and I tried to revive it with a Tsp of DAP and more yeast and waited 48hrs. It did nothing. So I ordered Calcium Carbonate and a PH tester. PH was at 2.65 on all batches. I added nearly 1.25 Tbsp per gallon to get it up to 4.65. Still dormant. Temp is now steady at 82f using a heating wrap and temp control. Still at 1.01.


I think maybe my hydrometer is off. I put it into tap water it reads 1.01. I put it in the filtered bottled water 1.01. It is the same reading as my wash right now. Is my hydrometer off by .01? That would make my wash finished at 1.0 or a little below.

Wash smells good and fermented. Not sour. Tastes like alcohol not sweet. Color yellowish. And it was clearing up nicely until I added the calcium carbonate.

Is my hydrometer off? Should I just rack it, let it clear and run it? What’s the worst that could happen if it isn’t done? Just a low yield?

Remember this is intended to be a practice run anyways to learn how to use my gear.

Here’s my wash info:
Day 1 - Start 1.07, 91deg -1.074 adjusted.
Day 2 - 1.06, 84deg
Day 3 - 1.048, 72.7deg, airlock bubble 2sec
Day 4 - 1.040, 70.9deg
Day 5 - 1.031, 75.6deg
Day 6 -
Day 7 - 1.023, 76.4deg, 1/23/19, 3 sec burp
Day 11 - 1.010, 1/27 looks done. Starting to clear. No burping
Day 16 - added yeast and DAP, shook, nothing
Day 18 - added Cal Carbonate, shook vigorously, burp every 1sec
Day 19 - dormant
Day 20 - dormant, nothing. Still 1.01
Last edited by acfixer69 on Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby Saltbush Bill » Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:24 pm

If its not sweet its done ....that simple.
Stokedonlife wrote: Day 3 - 1.048, 72.7deg, airlock bubble 2sec

Stokedonlife wrote:Day 7 - 1.023, 76.4deg, 1/23/19, 3 sec burp

Stokedonlife wrote:Day 18 - added Cal Carbonate, shook vigorously, burp every 1sec

Never rely on an airlock to tell if something is fermenting or not, they and lids are notorious for leaking.
If its bubbling its fermenting...... if its not bubbling it might be fermenting or it might not be.
Removing the lid and looking, tasting and listening will tell you much more.
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby Stokedonlife » Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:14 pm

Ok thanks. I’ve learned to rely on taste and smell with Kombucha so I think those lessons will translate as I learn the taste and smell of washes.

If it isn’t done can I still run it, say at 1.01?

Is it possible for the hydrometer to be off?
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby still_stirrin » Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:21 pm

Stokedonlife wrote:Is it possible for the hydrometer to be off?
Yes.
ss
Attention new distillers: Cranky's spoon feed info
What is a Proof & Traille hydrometer: Alcohol-meter
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby The Dark Alchemist » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:13 am

Let's see how this goes.... after a bunch of Birdswatchers TPW, thought I'd try one of these.

Pretty much followed the original recipe:
4Kg sugar (easier to just use 2x2Kg bags) in 23L water plus all the other goodies. Starting SG @ 1.05.

After TPW, I can't get over how clear this wash is - looking forward to running it and comparing to the TPW - nice and clean, with no tomato paste cans to dispose of after :thumbup:
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby StillerBoy » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:33 pm

The Dark Alchemist wrote:After TPW, I can't get over how clear this wash is

And you will never go back to TPW.. no mouth burn, and the best formula for a neutral.. watch the Ph, if will require some adjustment.. use calcium carbonate or calcium hydroxide, and tried to keep the Ph around 4.5.. after the first 24 hrs, she will be stable..

Strip it to 50% overall average, then reflux to 95%..

Mars
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby The Dark Alchemist » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:24 pm

StillerBoy wrote:
The Dark Alchemist wrote:After TPW, I can't get over how clear this wash is

And you will never go back to TPW.. no mouth burn, and the best formula for a neutral.. watch the Ph, if will require some adjustment.. use calcium carbonate or calcium hydroxide, and tried to keep the Ph around 4.5.. after the first 24 hrs, she will be stable..

Strip it to 50% overall average, then reflux to 95%..

Mars

Thx for the tips - I should duck out and get pH test strips then, from the pool shop. It was as clear as this morning, and fizzing away like a beauty. I have a TPW to reflux so keen to do a direct comparison in about a week.

Would I expect to get a similar amount of heads and tails to a TPW?
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby StillerBoy » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:43 am

The Dark Alchemist wrote:Would I expect to get a similar amount of heads and tails to a TPW?

Yah.. they are both similar in that department.. it's just the taste / flavor that is much different..

Mars
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby The Dark Alchemist » Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:18 pm

StillerBoy wrote:
The Dark Alchemist wrote:Would I expect to get a similar amount of heads and tails to a TPW?

Yah.. they are both similar in that department.. it's just the taste / flavor that is much different..

Mars

Thx Mars, looking forward to seeing what eventuates. Just put down 2nd batch....
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby The Dark Alchemist » Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:22 pm

StillerBoy wrote:
The Dark Alchemist wrote:Would I expect to get a similar amount of heads and tails to a TPW?

Yah.. they are both similar in that department.. it's just the taste / flavor that is much different..

Mars
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby Cliff w » Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:15 am

Hi just putting this wash together and was gonna use c1118 yeast 5 g packs what quantity dyreckon I would use cheers
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby StillerBoy » Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:18 am

Save your money and use baker's dry yeast.. it's the best for this wash..

Mars
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby Cliff w » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:09 am

Ok thanks stillerboy will do . I already have purchased this yeast so Just out of curiosity how much would you use it does say 23 litres per 5g pack.???
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby seemorebutts » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:38 am

made this wash up yesterday for the first time. very simple, easy to make. pitched bakers yeast as the recipe advised. two hours in and i had a quick look. yeast was doing its thing. looked in this morning and it seems to be fermenting nicely. have it set to 25c in a temp controlled fridge.
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby Cliff w » Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:27 am

Oh I didn’t see were it said use bakers yeast as a preference on my recipe it said use distillers or bakers just different amounts . Damn :crazy:
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby seemorebutts » Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:52 am

Cliff w wrote:Oh I didn’t see were it said use bakers yeast as a preference on my recipe it said use distillers or bakers just different amounts . Damn :crazy:


thats correct.
distiller or bakers is in the recipe on first page :thumbup:
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Re: Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

Postby The Dark Alchemist » Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:05 am

The Dark Alchemist wrote:
StillerBoy wrote:
The Dark Alchemist wrote:After TPW, I can't get over how clear this wash is

And you will never go back to TPW.. no mouth burn, and the best formula for a neutral.. watch the Ph, if will require some adjustment.. use calcium carbonate or calcium hydroxide, and tried to keep the Ph around 4.5.. after the first 24 hrs, she will be stable..

Strip it to 50% overall average, then reflux to 95%..

Mars

Thx for the tips - I should duck out and get pH test strips then, from the pool shop. It was as clear as this morning, and fizzing away like a beauty. I have a TPW to reflux so keen to do a direct comparison in about a week.

Would I expect to get a similar amount of heads and tails to a TPW?


Wash stalled, suspected pH, so added eggshells - back on fire again 24Hrs later........ Thx StillerBoy for help....
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