Buccaneer Bob's Silver, Gold, and Black Rum Recipe

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NormandieStill
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Re: Buccaneer Bob's Silver, Gold, and Black Rum Recipe

Post by NormandieStill »

Reaverman wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:36 pm
Reaverman wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:41 pm
NormandieStill wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:17 pm So I'm looking at doing a run of this if I can. I'll be making a dunder pit from the backset of a wheat whisky stripping run and I have a litre of the trub from the same in a bottle ready for use. The molasses have been ordered. Just going to have to accept that in order to do the spirit run, I'll probably have to do it on the hob as there's no way I'll have enough liquid to cover the element in my keg.
Couldn't you just dilute the wash down with water, so that it can cover the elements?
I mean low wines
Normally that's exactly what I'd do, but to comfortably cover the element I'll need to run probably three washes (I need 9.5 litres after stilling). Maybe 2 if I respect the watering down that Buccaneer Bob recommends which would take me to roughly 20L in the pot. Molasses are not that cheap here, and for this test I just paid about 25€ for a 4,5L jug, and since I've not actually drunk much rum at all, I don't know how much of the product we'll end up consuming so I didn't really want to put lots of money into raw materials right now. I've got some possible routes for getting more molasses in the future but I want to test first.

I could do a scaled down version and run the spirit run in the gin still (~4.5L charge) but I worry that the cuts may start getting complicated and the workload is basically the same for half the product.
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Re: Buccaneer Bob's Silver, Gold, and Black Rum Recipe

Post by NZChris »

NormandieStill wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 4:46 am I could do a scaled down version and run the spirit run in the gin still (~4.5L charge) but I worry that the cuts may start getting complicated and the workload is basically the same for half the product.
I've done that several times. I've accumulated a set of stills that let me strip in one, then spirit run in the next size down. If you use the same number of jars, the cuts are no more difficult than for larger ferments, it's just that the reward for your effort is less, which is fine if you are doing an experiment, or have been given a small amount of a desirable fermentable.
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Re: Buccaneer Bob's Silver, Gold, and Black Rum Recipe

Post by JakeB »

I've been interested in this recipe for a while now, but wasn't so sure I was in to maintaining an infected dunder pit, since whiskey is more my thing. Recently I have re developed a taste for dark rum. I was thinking I could do several strips in a row, like maybe 5, then freeze my dunder pit until next time I want to do rum runs again. On the next rum run, let it warm up to get re infected a week or 2 before I put on my first of several washes for that run.

I was wondering if anyone had advice about starting the dunder pit, and getting it infected. I had a few thoughts, I could save some malt whiskey backset, throw a little molasses in there and let that go sour over a month or so. I could make a small batch without dunder, do the stripping run, then hold on to that strip for a month or so until my backset gets infected, then just chuck the previous strip in with my later stripping runs.

It seems to me that no matter how I try to get the infected dunder, there is no way to be sure it is infected with the same bacteria yours is. Does anyone know what the infection is exactly? Can I get a pack of lacto and infect some backset with that? Is it more of a my rum will always be a little different from anyone else's even if doing the exact same process because the infection in the dunder pit depends on local environment? I've been making some pretty good gin, and whiskey from malt extract. I have a little built up now, and good whiskey takes time, so waiting for it to be ready isn't that big of an issue.
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Re: Buccaneer Bob's Silver, Gold, and Black Rum Recipe

Post by howie »

JakeB wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:08 pm I was wondering if anyone had advice about starting the dunder pit, and getting it infected. I had a few thoughts, I could save some malt whiskey backset, throw a little molasses in there and let that go sour over a month or so. I could make a small batch without dunder, do the stripping run, then hold on to that strip for a month or so until my backset gets infected, then just chuck the previous strip in with my later stripping runs.
several months ago i bought 2 x 20L plastics pails from the hardware.
i fitted a tap 1/3rd from the bottom.
i put about 15L dunder in each and 1 x yakult in each.
one pail had an 'insect proof' cover on it for a week, the other was sealed tight.
the insect proof cover was replaced with the lid, when i found insects (fruit flies?) squeezing through.
consequently the 2 x pails have got a different infections.
one infection smells of pineapple, the other infection smells more like molasses(?).(but i don't get too close)
when i do a spirit run, i draw about 2.5L from each to add to the low wines, and top them up with fresh dunder.
after monitoring the PH dropping, i put a hop bag in with oyster shells in one of the pails.
this kept the PH about 5, so both pails have now got oyster shells.
the other day, i noticed the shells were almost gone, so i'm replenishing them today.
the pails usually live outside in summer, but i brought them into the workshop through the winter.
both seem to be reasonably happy and made it through the winter, for which i was pleasantly suprised.
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Re: Buccaneer Bob's Silver, Gold, and Black Rum Recipe

Post by JakeB »

howie wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:24 pm
JakeB wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:08 pm I was wondering if anyone had advice about starting the dunder pit, and getting it infected. I had a few thoughts, I could save some malt whiskey backset, throw a little molasses in there and let that go sour over a month or so. I could make a small batch without dunder, do the stripping run, then hold on to that strip for a month or so until my backset gets infected, then just chuck the previous strip in with my later stripping runs.
several months ago i bought 2 x 20L plastics pails from the hardware.
i fitted a tap 1/3rd from the bottom.
i put about 15L dunder in each and 1 x yakult in each.
one pail had an 'insect proof' cover on it for a week, the other was sealed tight.
the insect proof cover was replaced with the lid, when i found insects (fruit flies?) squeezing through.
consequently the 2 x pails have got a different infections.
one infection smells of pineapple, the other infection smells more like molasses(?).(but i don't get too close)
when i do a spirit run, i draw about 2.5L from each to add to the low wines, and top them up with fresh dunder.
after monitoring the PH dropping, i put a hop bag in with oyster shells in one of the pails.
this kept the PH about 5, so both pails have now got oyster shells.
the other day, i noticed the shells were almost gone, so i'm replenishing them today.
the pails usually live outside in summer, but i brought them into the workshop through the winter.
both seem to be reasonably happy and made it through the winter, for which i was pleasantly suprised.
Wow man, thanks. Is the yakult those little Japanese milk beverages? I think that is what you mean. I was thinking of doing 1 bucket, with a lid that closes fully, but is not air tight. The oyster shell seems like a good idea, at least after the infection is established, since the PH would tend to drop.

I was wondering about PH too. The recipe calls for 3 - 4 lemons or limes. I assume you use an amout of lemon or lime that results in about ph 5 - 5.5. I was thinking if left unchecked between the dunder and the citrus, you might get too low of a PH for the yeast to work off.
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Re: Buccaneer Bob's Silver, Gold, and Black Rum Recipe

Post by howie »

i'm not too sure about the lemon & limes, are they just to lower the PH?
i suppose this depends on the original PH of your water.
then you are adding acidic stuff like dunder and using trub.
my washes end up about ph 4.2-4.5 with all the above, which is not ideal
i put oyster shells in the fermentation, which sorts the PH out and maintains a good PH level.
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Re: Buccaneer Bob's Silver, Gold, and Black Rum Recipe

Post by JakeB »

howie wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:34 am i'm not too sure about the lemon & limes, are they just to lower the PH?
i suppose this depends on the original PH of your water.
then you are adding acidic stuff like dunder and using trub.
my washes end up about ph 4.2-4.5 with all the above, which is not ideal
i put oyster shells in the fermentation, which sorts the PH out and maintains a good PH level.
That's kind of what I was thinking. The recipe calls for the juice of 2 - 3 lemons or limes. I assume they must be just to adjust your PH if necessary... Where I live tap water is almost perfectly at 7... add a bit of dunder pit and it will drop, don't want to go blow about 5 unless it is actually part of the recipe. Must just be for PH adjustment... Think I'll treat it as PH adjustment as needed... unless someone chimes in and says you really need 2 limes...
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Re: Buccaneer Bob's Silver, Gold, and Black Rum Recipe

Post by Reaverman »

So...I have a T500 with copper alembic dome and arm. In the bottom of the boiler, I have ceramic boil enchancers and copper olives (the latter used to emulate a copper boiler).

I've left this dunder in situ for three days (was working shifts, and did not get the time). I've emptied the boiler now, but will I have a copper sulphate issue, or am I safe? I think I should be ok, as the olives are immersed and not exposed.
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Re: Buccaneer Bob's Silver, Gold, and Black Rum Recipe

Post by Buccaneer Bob »

howie wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:34 am i'm not too sure about the lemon & limes, are they just to lower the PH?
i suppose this depends on the original PH of your water.
then you are adding acidic stuff like dunder and using trub.
my washes end up about ph 4.2-4.5 with all the above, which is not ideal
i put oyster shells in the fermentation, which sorts the PH out and maintains a good PH level.
Sorry I missed this earlier.

I think I touched on this a few pages back in this thread.

But anyway, when I first started developing this recipe, I was living at our ranch up in the mountains using well water with a very high pH. So the lemons/limes helped me deal with the alkaline well water.

And then later, when we moved back to the city, I started using RO water, and I had to switch from limes/lemons to calcium carbonate because the yeast were petering out before the end of the ferment because the pH had gone too low.

So I developed this chart as a way to try to accommodate different water types.

BBSGBR-pH.jpg

And I think I tossed out the idea of adding this to the recipe, but I didn't get any feedback one way or the other, so I just kept the recipe like it was.

I'm not sure if I would lose the "tried and true" recipe status if I made a tweak in the recipe after the fact.
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Re: Buccaneer Bob's Silver, Gold, and Black Rum Recipe

Post by Rum Agol »

Bob, additional information like this is useful for newbies who may not appreciate the effect PH can have on the success of their wash and as for losing tried and true status - never gonna happen mate :thumbup:
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Re: Buccaneer Bob's Silver, Gold, and Black Rum Recipe

Post by NormandieStill »

I recently found a source for FS molasses at about somewhere between 1/4 and 1/2 the price I had paid online. So I can scale up a little although I'd still like to run this through in generations to see the evolution. In other news, my dunder pit (whisky backset + a little dollop of molasses) has picked up a lacto infection and smells pretty good. Which may be a sign that it's not funky enough. I might test the pH and maybe add some calcium carbonate to pull the pH back up a little to give some other critters a try. That said, the bucket lives in the house and the other half might not appreciate a more funky pit indoors.
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Re: Buccaneer Bob's Silver, Gold, and Black Rum Recipe

Post by NormandieStill »

Having started the molasses ferment, I would like to offer some additional steps that could be included in the pdf, in the interests of matrimonial harmony.

In Stage 1:
7a) Prepare a bucket of warm soapy water, a sponge or cloth and a floor mop.
8a) When your plastic racking cane with a clip to securely attach it to the edge of the container, securely unclips itself and cartwheels out of the container spraying the floor, cupboards and user with highly coloured sticky lquid, deploy the prepared cleaning products (see step 7a... you didn't skip it right?) to restore the house to it's former glory before your hobby and its place in the house are questioned. Repeat as often as necessary.

Less than 30 mins after pitching the yeast I've got bubbling in the airlock, but I think clean up added maybe a half hour to stage 1! :wink:
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Re: Buccaneer Bob's Silver, Gold, and Black Rum Recipe

Post by howie »

ha ha, join the club.
i have one (or two) words of advice.....................bulldog clips.
i use them every time tubes and racking canes are involved, they have a mind of their own.
the big 50mm ones will take the tubing and clip onto the vessel.
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Re: Buccaneer Bob's Silver, Gold, and Black Rum Recipe

Post by NormandieStill »

I'll be investing in some bulldog clips then. My first AG mashes were less than optimal and required a certain amount of cleanup but molasses definitely adds some extra colour!

It's been running for 24h now and while it seems to be fizzing happily (bubbles in the airlock and an audible fizzing from the bucket), I don't have any foam on the top as described frequently for molasses ferments. I should really have taken the OG. I might stick my iSpindel in it and see what it gets up to.
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Re: Buccaneer Bob's Silver, Gold, and Black Rum Recipe

Post by NormandieStill »

Need some troubleshooting help. I stuck the iSpindel in and it's gave me a reading of 1.104. After 3 days in the wash it's down to 1.099. While it's heading in the right direction, it doesn't seem very fast for a ferment at 20C. I dropped a hydrometer in to get a second reading and that's even higher at 1.104. My pH meter gives me a reading of 4.9. I've not calibrated it recently, but it gives 6 for my tap water which seems reasonable so I doubt it's far out. I've not tried using a test strip as I think the molasses will just mask the colour. I didn't take an SG reading which I now regret, but this has never taken off as described by so many others.

Should I let it potter on until it slows even more and then add the sugar, or given that it's 4 1/2 days since pitching should I just add the sugar and hope for the best? The wash still tastes slightly sweet but less so than I remember.
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Re: Buccaneer Bob's Silver, Gold, and Black Rum Recipe

Post by Yummyrum »

Umm 20°C
Yeah thats low .I normally run my Rum ferments at 30°C minimum and often its up around 35-37°C.

No wonder its taking so long . .can you keep it warmer ?


Regarding , explosive Molasses washes , they seem to be the ones with yeast bombs that contain DAP . …or for a similar experience , add turbo yeast . .. aks me how I know :oops:
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Re: Buccaneer Bob's Silver, Gold, and Black Rum Recipe

Post by NormandieStill »

I have no heating setup, but I was following BBs comments that temperature just changed the run time. I guess I'll just sit it out then. All my other baker's yeast ferments have run happily at 20C but I'm guessing that molasses takes a little more work from the critters.
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Re: Buccaneer Bob's Silver, Gold, and Black Rum Recipe

Post by v-child »

An interesting discussion on dunder pits.
https://www.stilldragon.org/discussion/ ... pit-thread
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Re: Buccaneer Bob's Silver, Gold, and Black Rum Recipe

Post by billybob2000 »

Thank you for the recipe, I have a question regarding clarifying the molasses. The sediment left behind after clarifying looks exactly like the yeast trub. Aren't we adding the trub just to throw it out again after clarifying, doing it this way?
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Re: Buccaneer Bob's Silver, Gold, and Black Rum Recipe

Post by Sporacle »

"1 liter yeast trub from previous batch (or substitute 200 grams of yeast in 1 liter of water)"
So the yeast trub comes from the previous batch that if you follow the recipe would have been from clarified mollases :thumbup:
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Re: Buccaneer Bob's Silver, Gold, and Black Rum Recipe

Post by billybob2000 »

Thanks, that wasn't quite the question. The recipe says to add the trub, a couple more steps, and then clarify everything. Clarifying it appears to leave the trub behind in the sediment however.
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Re: Buccaneer Bob's Silver, Gold, and Black Rum Recipe

Post by Sporacle »

Not to sure what your question is then, just follow the recipe and see how it works out :thumbup:
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Re: Buccaneer Bob's Silver, Gold, and Black Rum Recipe

Post by billybob2000 »

The question is, why are we adding the trub, just to leave it behind 2 steps later? Wouldn't it be better to add it after clarifying?
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Re: Buccaneer Bob's Silver, Gold, and Black Rum Recipe

Post by Sporacle »

:thumbup: I believe it would be for nutrients as a portion will mix in with the boil and not trying to be disrespectful, but because that's the way Bob does it
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Re: Buccaneer Bob's Silver, Gold, and Black Rum Recipe

Post by Buccaneer Bob »

billybob2000 wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 8:12 pm The question is, why are we adding the trub, just to leave it behind 2 steps later? Wouldn't it be better to add it after clarifying?
You boil the yeast trub to break open the yeast cells and release the stuff inside (oils and whatnot that will become future nutrients). The outer husks of the cells will settle, along with some bitter ash that was part of the molasses. But the goodies from inside the cells will stay in suspension and become those future nutrients I was mentioning.
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Re: Buccaneer Bob's Silver, Gold, and Black Rum Recipe

Post by NormandieStill »

Some updates and a question.

Firstly, that first wash crashed. I pitched and repitched yeast and each time it would seem to kick off a little then peeter out. I got in touch with the molasses manufacturer (Nortembio... bought on Amazon) to see if they put any additives in their product. Turns out it was dosed with potassium sorbate. The wash is still around and I may run it for kicks to see how much alcohol it managed to produce, but given the stress I doubt that much of it will be palatable.

In the meantime, I chased down a local source and managed to get about 5 litres for less than a 3rd of what I paid for the first batch. Smells a lot less palatable and tastes worse, but it ferments! So take 2. Fired up the wash, added the sugar after a few days, and then let it run it's course and settle. It's been sitting for about 2 months in all I think so today I finally got around to stripping it. I got between 4 and 4 1/2 litres of low wines at 55%. It smells great, and there's some fantastic flavours in there.

BB says to add 5L water before stilling to soften the flavour somewhat. But he also says to expect around 5L of low wines and to add tails and I have no tails and I'm a little shy on volume. And those flavours don't seem that strong. I'm currently inclined to proof down to 40% and run from there, but I'm also hoping to be able to follow his cuts guide (I will be collecting into jars as per usual and cutting based on flavour, but I'd like to see how near / far I end up from the recipe).

So I guess my question is: What abv do you regulars normally put in the still for a spirit run? And how potent are those flavours coming off the second distillation?
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Re: Buccaneer Bob's Silver, Gold, and Black Rum Recipe

Post by Saltbush Bill »

NormandieStill wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 1:26 pm Smells a lot less palatable and tastes worse,
That's the good stuff for making Rum. :thumbup:
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Re: Buccaneer Bob's Silver, Gold, and Black Rum Recipe

Post by WayFastJett »

Started my second batch today with dunder. i am running batches of 50L using 2 3.45L jugs of black strap and 3KG of sugar per batch. the first batch only aged for 2 months so far and did not have a dunder start is a golden and is excellently received by myself and all my tasters. thank you very much for sharing the recipe and i will keep enjoying the results!
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Re: Buccaneer Bob's Silver, Gold, and Black Rum Recipe

Post by WayFastJett »

i should add i used 1 teaspoon citric acid not lemons, bakers yeast, which fermented out at 15.2% and ran a single run on 2 plates with copper packing in between them. 450ml of foreshots discarded and ended up with almost 9L at 75-80%, cuts were the second 500ml, and the last 4L were out so almost 5L when in to a blend with 3 staves with a dark char.
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Re: Buccaneer Bob's Silver, Gold, and Black Rum Recipe

Post by Buccaneer Bob »

Sounds great, WayFastJett. I'm glad to hear you're liking the results. :thumbup:
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