Jimbo's easy 1/2barrel Wheated Bourbon and Gumballhead

[Jimbo]

Dont run it too soon, if its active it will continue to drop in SG until the yeast get their fill.

[rad14701]

HighProof, you mentioned that you used the same yeast, but what yeast...??? Most yeasts like 75F - 85F best for aggressive fermentation... I've been keeping a jacket on my carboys and late in the ferment am even using a heating pad to keep the wash temperature above 75F...

[HighProof]

rad - I'm using Burton Ale Yeast (WLP023) and I had it fermenting at 68F. Interesting to know that they may like a higher temp. I'll try that out.

I still have the issue of a low SG to figure out. I had another 10 pounds of corn left, so yesterday I picked up some more malt to do a 5 gallon batch. The malt came from a different brew shop and was a noticeably finer grind. Yesterday evening, I heated up some water, and stirred in the corn at about 7PM and just left it overnight wrapped in blankets. This morning at 6AM the temp was in the upper 140's, so I put it on a little heat while I cooked breakfast and brought the heat up to 160F. It settled somewhere in the low-mid 150's when I stirred in the grain. I'm just going to let it sit until I get home from work, when I'll measure the SG and see if it's any better than last time. Part of this experiment was also to see if this overnight process would work for me. If so, that'll be a super convenient way to make a batch during the work week.

[Jimbo]

yikes. I do NOT recommend fermenting a beer yeast that hot. Even in the 70's it will throw shite esters that are very objectionable in a beer. No reason to believe they'll somehow be delightful in a distilled spirit.

Distillers yeast and bakers yeast like 80F, pushing them to 85 'might' work. But a beer yeast, no. And Burton already throws esters, even in ideal cool conditions. If you want to try it anyway, go for it, report back how it went.

[HighProof]

I think I maybe have my problem solved - and it's the way I was measuring gravity. I took a sample from the liquid off at the top of the bucket, which in my new 5G test bucket also read around 1.02. I decided to stir up the mash and then take another reading. This time it came out around 1.060.

So how do people usually take their measurement? I had taken it off the top because I could do it without getting any solids (which was more important when I was trying to get enough liquid to use a hydrometer).

Also, the method of letting the corn rest overnight, and then letting the grains rest during the day worked pretty well. When I came home, the temperature was in the 130's and it didn't take long to knock that down to pitching temperature.

[Squattingcoyote]

Howdy everyone,
Well I lost my last mash of this due to a nasty infection but ordering some more grain today to have another go. I was just wondering if anyone has run this recipie through a flute. I notice most XX with a pot still. I could go either way but am pretty curious how it would fare through my 4 plate flute. Anyone tried it?

[WestCoast]

I have read through this thread and am really intrigued with the idea of of a bourbon followed by a sugar head on the grains. After reading I have a few questions.

I have never worked with corn before. When working with all grain i have never really found i need to press the grains. From what i have read, it sounds like working with corn turns everything into a gelatinous goo. Is there a way to keep this from happening? Rice hulls? More grain? Would sparging after fermentation work?

Thanks for the help

-WC-

[Kelbor]

I think I maybe have my problem solved - and it's the way I was measuring gravity. I took a sample from the liquid off at the top of the bucket, which in my new 5G test bucket also read around 1.02. I decided to stir up the mash and then take another reading. This time it came out around 1.060.

So how do people usually take their measurement? I had taken it off the top because I could do it without getting any solids (which was more important when I was trying to get enough liquid to use a hydrometer).

Also, the method of letting the corn rest overnight, and then letting the grains rest during the day worked pretty well. When I came home, the temperature was in the 130's and it didn't take long to knock that down to pitching temperature.

I take a bit of my mixed up mash (before pitching the yeast of course) and put it through a fine meshed wine sack/screen. Put that into my hydrometer tube and run it under water to get it to 60 degrees (F). I then check the gravity and toss the test liquid down the drain - best not tempt contamination. I tried a coffee filter but it seems to clog up too much...

[Kelbor]

West Coast - After a few two hour forearm workouts squeezing the mash in a mesh wine bag I splurged on a 60 buck mop wring bucket from Home Despot...well worth the money spent and it works great. I still use the wine sack but now I just put in the wringer, pour the mash in and Bam! I get about 11.5 gallons of beer (from about 12 starting gallons of water) in less then a hour including set-up, sanitation, and clean-up.

[WestCoast]

Sounds like if i am going to work with corn, i need to go to lowes and mop wringer.

Thanks for the advice.

-WC-

[Jimbo]

I squeezed a few hundred pounds by hand before buying my mop wringer. Wont kill ya

jus sayin

[WestCoast]

HA! No, i am sure it wouldn't kill me, it might even do me some good.

I guess this would explain why some distilleries toss everything into the boiler when making a whiskey. What would happen if you tried to make the gumballhead on the grains ofter they had been through the still?

-WC-

[Cliff_Omalle]

Would it be ok if used corn malt instead of the 6 row

[Jimbo]

I dont have first hand experience but have read that corn malt only has enough diastatic power to convert itself.

[White_Lightning_Rod]

I mashed 20 gallons of this two days ago, replaced the barley malt portion with more red wheat malt, the yeasties are SUPER happy, it formed a cap within an hour of pitching but 12 hours later it was rolling so hard the cap keeps getting mixed back in. I have never seen such and active ferment Looking forward to sampling this one for sure.

[Woodpile]

I would just like to take a moment to thank Jimbo for all the work and help in this thread. I had considered trying the sugar part on all that nice corn, but I do not wish to risk the taste described. If you shouldn't mix it, then it is probably not worth it - especially with the low cost of corn.

[Woodpile]

So, my second corn AG batch got that same sort of bacterial (lactic?) infection mentioned earlier. My process is a bit different, as I mash twice. So it sat over night below 150 and there was a membrane on the whole top, blown up in one big bubble and it smelled like vinegar (it looked like the sour mash starter thread info). My next step is to take it back up to 200 then cool for final mashing, then ferment. That smell went away after heating, and now it smells even better (fermenting) than my first batch - which did not do that. We shall see what happens when I strip it.

[DukeBoxer]

Hey Jimbo, so I have done this recipe 3 times already. The first one got a lactic infection and came over with a weird off flavor in the heads. My other 2 came out amazing with a sweet corn taste almost all the way through. I just have a few questions about the sugarhead part. My first one fermented out fine right through but my latest ones have been taking a long time and one got stuck. I pitched more yeast, the safale S04 (is that the US-04 that you talk about?) and it finished fine but at $4 a packet I'd rather throw in some fresh bakers yeast to finish it off. Is this a bad idea or something you would consider? I'm not trying to be a cheapo but I'd rather use the good yeast for the AG instead of the sugarheads. Have yours ever stalled on you? I know you say they ferment out fast for you but mine are taking about 1 and a half weeks to 2 to finish. Also one more thing, have you or anyone tried to pull off the fores and a small amount of heads and keep the rest into the tails a little and age that good for a few years to have a more commercial tasting drink? I understand that we are making a better, cleaner product by making good cuts but you just don't get the same range of tastes after ageing it as the commercial stuff. I was a Woodford drinker before and when I could get my hands on it a VanWinkle 12 year family reserve.

[Jimbo]

Dukeboxer, the grain is loaded with yeast, so you shouldnt need to repitch any new yeast as long as the sugarwater you pour over the grain was cooled first so it doesnt kill the yeast. It will take off and ferment really quick. After I settle out the main AG batch, I pour that yeast sludge in on top as well. Interesting yoru sugarhead got stuck. yes you could try some bakers, but something is wrong and theres a fair chance more yeast wont help. Try elevating the termperature some if you can, that usually kicks yeast in the ass to wake em up. If you do try some bakers, note that it likes really warm temps, 80F.

Cuts are a real art behind making a good whiskey. Just as important as getting your mash and ferment right. We're not making vodka or neutral so yes you do need some late heads and early tails. How much is up to your individual taste. If youre looking for more bite, like the way a commercial will sting your eyes and has that sharpness in flavor, thats heads. A little bit of that adds complexity and fruit character, too much and it will bite and take a very long time to age properly, years. Tails add depth and graininess after aging, altho taste like cardboardy wet rag shite when fresh, so it takes a fair amount of faith that it will mature nicely over time to pour it in yoru drink, it does. You just need to experiment and find what you like. You can do multiple different cuts off the same batch if you keep very careful notes.

[DukeBoxer]

Jimbo, thanks for the reply! I let everything cool down before adding the grain and also the sludge. Maybe I'm just thinking it should ferment out faster then it really is. I strained the grain from one 2 days ago that I thought was done but it still had a slightly sweet taste to it so I just threw some plastic wrap on top and let it sit and it is still fermenting fine with no addition of more yeast. Thanks for all the help and this great recipe again!!

[Jimbo]

It can take anywhere from 4 days to 2 weeks. Yeast don't always march to the same drummer. Temperature plays big. And you're welcome, I'm happy you're enjoying it

[Colin202]

Jimbo, thanks for all the great easy to follow recipes, they've never failed me so far! I have 15 gls fermenting currently of corn wheat and rye and was gonna try the gumball when's its clearing, just wondering what to expect, is it still bourbonish or is it more neutral? Just wondering.

[Jimbo]

Its thinner than the bourbon but still very nice. Kinda like Jack Daniels after that carbon filter treatment they give it (oaked neutral I call Jack now). I use it white for pantydroppers and oaked for mixed drinks like whiskey and coke or whiskey sours (my 2 fav)

Thanks and youre welcome, happy your having success with them

[Kelbor]

Hey Jimbo,
Finally got enough lows for a good spirit run. Ended up with 20 quarts before making any cuts. My run started at 79% and I ran her down to 40% (dropped quick from quart 15). I am running a keg pot still with a 2" diameter 18" vertical over to a worm in a bucket. I charged it with 35% lows and I ran her at a skinny stream (pencil lead thick). She puts out at a rate of 15-18 minutes per quart. I noticed on page one you say you get four quarts at an average of 56%… My average hearts cut will likely be in the 75% range. It gets pretty nasty smelling at around jar 16 which is at about 63%. Am I running too slow (thus pulling too high a %?) or is the 56% after you have cut it down with water (making it the % you like to age it at) ?!?

The heart smells amazing by the way - Thanks for the help along the way!

K

[Jimbo]

Hey Kelbor. These days I run bigger ferments and bump bourbons to 3lb/gal like i said in the edit, so usually have to water down the keep to hit 62% for aging. This recipe I ran a bunch tho and keep would be around that 56 number. Varies but close. I do strippers now until low wines is 30 avg.

[Kelbor]

Ok, thanks again!
I made my cuts...Kept jar 5 - 13 plus added half of jar 17 (seemed to lose the wet dog for a second and really pick up some corn- it's the first time I tried incorporating any select tails into the hearts keep). This leaves me with 9 1/2 quarts of keep out of twenty (cut four in the front and 5 1/2 from the tail). Cut down to 62.5ish percent and oaking with some homemade and toasted/charred oak splits (*note to self - wait till wife is gone for the entire weekend before using the house oven again for wood! Hahaha!)

Does about 50% keep sound right from a likker run? I guess only time will tell....

[Jimbo]

Sounds great. Ya thats ballpark. I usually land about 60-65%. Add those feints in next run for a nice treat and greater yield. Especially the tails and late heads if you kept it all seperate.

[DukeBoxer]

Hey guys, I thought I'd check in and tell you about what I just made. After buying the initial malts when I had no idea what I was doing and just starting to try an all grain I bought a bunch of special and dark malts, here's the list: Weyerman Oak Smoked Wheat, Briess torrified red wheat malt, briess midnight wheat malt, Dingemans Chocolate malt and German Cara Aroma. So after about 5 successful runs of mostly corn and wheat, 2 of those with 6 row barley and another one with steel cut oats I decided to see what would happen with these guys. I cooked 7.5 pounds of corn in 5 gallons of water till it was a nice thick porridge and then cooled it to about 158, threw it in a cooler and added each of those malts, 1 pound each, and 5 pounds of white wheat malt. I let that convert over night and then threw it in the fermenting bucket the next morning. This stuff was dark, thick and bitter with some espresso coffee taste. I pitched a rehydrated pack of nottingham and after 24 hours nothing was really happening so I threw in a pack of S04 and it kicked off quick after that. It fermented for about 5 days. I'm thinking it didn't ferment out dry because I didn't get too high abv. I ran it and took off 200ml of fores and heads, another 200ml I was going to keep out also and then threw a hearts jar underneath. I think I pulled off about 400ml, tasted it and realized it wasn't too strong so I checked abv with the hydrometer and it read 46 so I shut it down since I don't think I'll make this again and I didn't want any tails. I ended up throwing that second 200ml back in and bringing the abv up to about 50. The taste at first is kind of burnt/toasted malt but then turns into more mellow flavor that still keeps the roasted notes, actually pretty nice. The finish is forever and is more like the first taste of burnt/toasted. I'm not sure I like it or not but we'll see what happens. I kept about 4 ounces of clear at 45% and then threw 2 charred oak balls into 500ml of 50%. I'll check back when I have a few more tasting notes from some friends.

On a side note when I opened the Oak Smoked Wheat Malt the smell was amazing, kind of like a sweet, smokey BBQ so I decided to buy 10 pounds of it and I am going to make an all wheat whiskey with that and 5 pounds of white wheat malt. While I was searching on here to see if anyone has ever used the dark malts in a mash I found a post from the person who owns Corsair Distillery talking about how he uses it sometimes. I went to his website and low and behold they have an oak smoked wheat whiskey!! Now I'm really excited to get this mash going and see what the result is!

[warp1]

dammit....have everything ready to go but no backset. Jimbo recommended not using UJSM (which I do have). Not sure if we have a brew store where I could get citric acid. Leaves me with a few options: mash it without pH correction (close to 7 here), add lemon juice? gotta believe that would effect the flavor, muriatic acid...Just a bit? saw that mentioned in a rum thread (have that here for the pool....

Recommendations? Next batch will obviously be easier

[White_Lightning_Rod]

I get powdered citric acid at the grocery store, right beside the Mason jars, it is used in canning vegtables as well. Lemon juice in theory would work as well, I dont think your going to taste it in the distallate tho Ive never heard it used in an AG recipe. You definately want to adjust the PH as the enzymes in the malt like a certain range to work best. In a corn heavy mash you arent going to get very good conversion if you dont adjust the PH correctly.