Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

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WithOrWithoutU2
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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by WithOrWithoutU2 » Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:45 pm

franco1s0001 wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 3:58 am
A bit off topic but at the end of S10E12 of moonshiners, they talk about birdwatchers recipe, S10E13 they'll make a run.
I saw that too. Should be interesting to see how they represent it and if they reference the website.

I know the show is 100% for entertainment and staged. But I still enjoy it.

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by Homegrown » Sun Feb 14, 2021 9:10 am

Distilling wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 6:49 am
I have been doing a derivation of this recipe for years with consistent and agreeable results: 12% ABV, completely dry in about 9 days.

In Europe / UK is difficult to get tomato paste puree so instead I thought using nutritional yeast as yeast nutrient. And it works. Looks like yeast are cannibalistic and do not mind eat their own! :roll: It goes like this: In a 10 liter bucket dissolve with water 2.4 Kg of sugar, 135 ml of any vinegar but 6º acidity (Do the math if different), 45 gr of yeast nutrient, water to top. In the end add 13.5 gr of dry baker`s yeast - hydrate this yeast with some water 20-30 minutes, this sugar wash is too sugary for dry yeast to cope with dormancy. Stir. Leave it in a dark place at room temperature to ferment.

It renders 7.5 liters of sugar wash at about 12 %. In my case this recipe has been consistent many times and I have not got any problems with flavor or anything - PH change of the vinegar, 135 ml of 6º in a 10 liters worth, leaves the worth below 4.6 and that makes the fermentation easier and safer
It sounds like you could just use Ketchup with vinegar already in it ?

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by passiton » Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:26 pm

WithOrWithoutU2 wrote:
Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:45 pm
franco1s0001 wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 3:58 am
A bit off topic but at the end of S10E12 of moonshiners, they talk about birdwatchers recipe, S10E13 they'll make a run.
I saw that too. Should be interesting to see how they represent it and if they reference the website.

I know the show is 100% for entertainment and staged. But I still enjoy it.
I just watched moonshiners and they did run Birdwatchers recipe with no credit of where it came from. But on the the plus side it was 190 proof and they liked it, they said it had a sweet clean taste. Lol

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by TDick » Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:07 pm

passiton wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:26 pm
WithOrWithoutU2 wrote:
Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:45 pm
franco1s0001 wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 3:58 am
A bit off topic but at the end of S10E12 of moonshiners, they talk about birdwatchers recipe, S10E13 they'll make a run.
I saw that too. Should be interesting to see how they represent it and if they reference the website.
I know the show is 100% for entertainment and staged. But I still enjoy it.
I just watched moonshiners and they did run Birdwatchers recipe with no credit of where it came from. But on the the plus side it was 190 proof and they liked it, they said it had a sweet clean taste. Lol
"Jerry what the hell do we need tomato paste & lemon juice for!"

"There's an old recipe....."
Tater wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:01 am
{birdwatchers}My recipe for an 80 liter wash. Ingredients as follows:
Tip of the hat with the coon pecker on it to Tater!

Yes it obviously was a well rehearsed scene but makes me wonder if Jerry is a member in good standing among us?

I do know that the guy - sorry the name escapes me - that won the Master Distiller for Mezcal joined after he won that competition.

If you're here Jerry, good job!

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by kornflake » Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:25 am

I guess I'm not the only one that saw that. Glad they gave you some credit for it instead of just stealing it.

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by franco1s0001 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:58 pm

passiton wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:26 pm
WithOrWithoutU2 wrote:
Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:45 pm
franco1s0001 wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 3:58 am
A bit off topic but at the end of S10E12 of moonshiners, they talk about birdwatchers recipe, S10E13 they'll make a run.
I saw that too. Should be interesting to see how they represent it and if they reference the website.

I know the show is 100% for entertainment and staged. But I still enjoy it.
I just watched moonshiners and they did run Birdwatchers recipe with no credit of where it came from. But on the the plus side it was 190 proof and they liked it, they said it had a sweet clean taste. Lol
Mighty impressive column still they built themselves from scratch, that thing is huge lol.

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by SomethingObscure » Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:53 am

So I've been using tomato puree until now. But wanted to check out the tomato paste. This isn't something that I've ever seen in the UK but when I checked ASDA's website I found this on offer.

I'll be honest I've only read the first 10 or so pages so far. But I was wondering how it matched up with the ingredients of tomato paste in the US and across the globe. It looks like it has a higher sugar content, but I guess that wouldn't necessarily matter.

Below are the product which are really available in the UK supermarket.

Bodrum Tomato Paste 700g £1
Tomatoes (100%), Double Concentrated 28%-30%
Typical values per 100g:
Energy: 364 kJ (87 kcal)
Fat: 0g
of which saturates: 0g
Carbohydrates: 18g
of which sugars: 14g
Protein: 4.5g
Salt: 0.7g

ASDA Tomato Puree 200g tube £0.35
Tomato Purée (99%), Acidity Regulator (Citric Acid)
Typical values per 100g:
Energy 117kJ/28kcal
Fat <0.5g
of which saturates 0g
Carbohydrate 5.1g
of which sugars 4.5g
Fibre <0.5g
Protein 1.4g
Salt 0g

ASDA Double Concentrate Tomato Purée 300g £0.80
Ingredients
Tomato Purée (99%), Acidity Regulator (Citric Acid)
Nutritional Values
Typical values Per 100g
Energy 339kJ/80kcal
Fat <0.5g
of which saturates <0.1g
Carbohydrate 13g
of which sugars 13g
Fibre 4.7g
Protein 4.4g
Salt 0.12g

ASDA Italian Tomato Passata 500g £0.40
Ingredients
Tomatoes, Acidity Regulator (Citric Acid)
Nutritional Values
Typical values Per 100g
Energy 117kJ/28kcal
Fat <0.5g
of which saturates 0g
Carbohydrate 5.1g
of which sugars 4.5g
Fibre <0.5g
Protein 1.4g
Salt 0g

Cheers SomethingObscure

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by NormandieStill » Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:07 pm

So 2 days ago I started my first batch with a view to making some neutral-ish (with a pot still). I've been fermenting stuff for a good few years now but I don't think I've ever had a ferment take off quite that quickly.

Based on the web site calculator, but omitting the Epsom salts as I didn't have any on hand, 3kg of sugar for 15l of water for an SG of 1.072. Easy enough to mix up with a stainless steel paddle I pitched the yeast at 23C and put an airlock on it and it started bubbling within about 10 minutes. 2 days later it's still going strong. I'm not warming it at all, the house is around 17C at the minute and from the feel of it, the yeast are maintaining their own temperature nicely in the low 20s.

The plan is to start a new batch every few days, I can strip a 15l wash fairly rapidly in the evening after the kids are asleep. Based on the pot still purity calculator, I plan to pull 4.5l from each batch which should take me to around 28% for the low wines (This works out nicely as six 75cl bottles which I can then easily store). Four or five batches will give me a decent boiler charge for a spirit run. Depending on the take from that I may cut slightly wide hearts, redilute and run again. Ultimately it'll be used for infusions, gin, and taking the freshness off some oak for ageing purposes so I don't need it to be perfectly clean.
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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by NZChris » Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:25 pm

NormandieStill wrote:
Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:07 pm
I plan to pull 4.5l from each batch which should take me to around 28% for the low wines
I aim for around that abv to capture flavor from grain, fruit and and rum ferments. With Birdwatchers, I don't want tomato in my heart cut, so I aim for much higher, like about 40%. Some aim for 50% and add water.

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by NormandieStill » Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:52 pm

NZChris wrote:
Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:25 pm
I aim for around that abv to capture flavor from grain, fruit and and rum ferments. With Birdwatchers, I don't want tomato in my heart cut, so I aim for much higher, like about 40%. Some aim for 50% and add water.
Interesting. So I should revise down to about 3l of low wines per 15l. The stripping runs will go faster I guess but I think I'll have to scale up the number of washes to compensate. So I guess that one of the advantages of running neutrals on a reflux column is the higher yield from the same wash. I've started gathering parts for a CCVM column, but I'd like to keep playing with the pot still a little longer to get a better feel for it before adding more complications.
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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by NZChris » Fri Mar 12, 2021 11:14 pm

I don't run to expectations/calculations of volume when I strip anything. I just do the right thing for the product I'm making.

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by NormandieStill » Fri Mar 12, 2021 11:41 pm

NZChris wrote:
Fri Mar 12, 2021 11:14 pm
I don't run to expectations/calculations of volume when I strip anything. I just do the right thing for the product I'm making.
That's worked for me so far, but I need to have an idea of volumes in order to keep the (newly installed) heating element covered. I'll be monitoring the ABV in any case during the run, but it's nice to have an idea of what to expect.
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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by NZChris » Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:00 am

Measure the volume needed to cover the element. Calculate how much you can take off and don't go beyond it.

If your element is too high, do something about it.

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by NormandieStill » Sun Mar 14, 2021 6:33 am

Still bubbling away nicely, pH 4 and gravity: 1.036. Forgot to check the temperature but I think it's holding at around our room temp or slightly higher (17-18C).
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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by DasBeast007 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:42 am

This was my first wash recipe, my fourth wash recipe and now a goto for any required cleaning runs. This recipe ferments out fairly quickly (none went over a week).
2" CCVM on a 7.5gal keg boiler
3" CCVM on a 15.5 gal keg boiler

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by NormandieStill » Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:07 am

So the first wash is still bubbling a little but may just be off-gassing, SG currently 0.994 10 days after pitching. I started a second batch about 4 days ago and a 3rd today. I've got enough 20l buckets for a 4th wash in parallel. Once I've had a chance to run the vinegar + sac runs on my modified rig, I'll be able to liberate another larger fermenter to get what should be a 5th and final wash going. I do like the rapidity of this. I managed to prep the wash today while the kids were watching a cartoon. I have no heating for my ferments so they are running slow and cool, but hopefully this will result in fewer off-flavours. Certainly the first wash tastes clean as is.
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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by todicpetar » Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:52 am

Hi,

I used the birdwatchers calculator to see the ammount needed for 30l of wash.

6.8kg sugar, 300g tomato paste, 1g lemon juice, 84g yeast. I don't have access to epsom sts.

Still my sg turns out a bit high.
I measured my water to be 30c and mixed sugar, paste and lemon juice slowly

https://ibb.co/Dt4f9bQ

Any indication on what I am doing wrong?

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by still_stirrin » Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:57 am

todicpetar wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:52 am
...Any indication on what I am doing wrong?
What’s the “temperature corrected” O.G.?

Your foto is impossible to see the measurement. So, you’ve got to tell us. And be sure to adjust for a warmer than calibration temperature. It will make a big difference on the O.G. reading.

And, please post fotos on the HD website (see attachment tab below the text entry box). When fotos are hosted on outside servers, they tend to “disappear” after a while. Posting on our website will allow them to stay with the thread.
ss
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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by todicpetar » Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:26 am

It's showing 1025 now, and it is calibrated to 20c. it was 1015 before I added the yeast, as seen in the pic.

Wash temp (just measured it) is 35C.

Noted on the pictures.

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by still_stirrin » Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:35 am

todicpetar wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:26 am
It's showing 1025 now, and it is calibrated to 20c. it was 1015 before I added the yeast, as seen in the pic.

Wash temp (just measured it) is 35C.

Noted on the pictures.
Here’s a correction calculator link: https://www.brewersfriend.com/hydrometer-temp/
Hydrometer correction
Hydrometer correction

But you must be seriously mis-measuring your S.G. This is the “target O.G.” using the parent site calculator (look it up).
Parent site sugar wash calc
Parent site sugar wash calc
So, to have such a LOW gravity reading, you must’ve added more water. According to the calculator for the sugar you used, you needed 26 liters to make a 30 liter ferment.
Last edited by still_stirrin on Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by todicpetar » Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:37 am

Adjusted Value:
1.029

That's a lot more since the recipe calls for 1.09

Should I split the mash in two buckets and add half of only water to both?

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by still_stirrin » Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:49 am

todicpetar wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:37 am
Adjusted Value:
1.029

That's a lot more since the recipe calls for 1.09

Should I split the mash in two buckets and add half of only water to both?
You OBVIOUSLY don’t know how to read a hydrometer. Study up...any homebrew website will have plenty of info for you. Even Youtube will teach you something. Get with it!
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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by todicpetar » Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:41 am

Yes, it seems like i failed to learn the difference between sg and og. Back to the reading table!

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by todicpetar » Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:07 am

Ok, I get the basics now.

My hydrometer is limited and weird, I wonder if it's because it's meant for all fruit mashes -

Image

At first, I thought that in order for my starting gravity to be 1.09 it needs to sink so it is a bit higher than the number 10. Not realizing that would make it 1.01 :roll:

I dumped half of the wash, and after that, I realized that it was right at the beginning, so I added some sugar and tomato paste back in. That got my gravity back to 1.06, or 1060 on my weird hydrometer.

Since this is my first fermentation and my goal is to learn (which I am doing, even though I realize I look dumb here :wave: ), I decided to let the wash cool and pitch in some hydrated yeast.
It seems like a success, the was is bubbling up nicely. Smells like sphageti. I wrote down my starting gravity in order to keep track.

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by NormandieStill » Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:46 am

So here's my little write-up of my first full "cycle" of birdwatcher's (In case it interests anyone).

In the end I started 4 15l batches all following the same proportions. The first stripping run yielded about 4l of low wines at 40% (Following the advice from NZChris) which was more than I was expecting. The following three washes ran the same with near enough the same yield. The stripping runs were run at 3kW, which seems to be approaching the limits of what my 78cm liebig can handle. The distillate was coming off at 40C. The 40% abv was a fairly rough estimate as I was reading it on my Ukranian mini-alcometer floating in the stainless steel pot that I was collecting in and correcting based on the guesstimate of 1% over read for each 3C over 20C. (Essentially looking for about 49%) When I checked the first batch of low wines before pouring them into the boiler I was actually at about 38% so I'm not too upset by my process.

For the spirit run, I had 4 batches of Birdwatcher's low wines, to which I added a litre of 54% low wines from my one and only turbo wash and a little water to bring them down to 40%. All in I had a little over 17l, which would allow me to take off 7 litres before the element risked being too close to the surface. I heated the low wines rapidly at 3kW, then pulled it down to about 600W (estimated) as soon as the first drops of fores appeared. I balanced the coolant to limit the water usage and started running. I was collecting in 300ml jars (jars marked for 300ml) and the first 2 jars were dismissed as fores (The suggested minimum would have been 360ml, but I figured I'd be in heads territory anyway). After that as I swapped each jar I logged the time taken to fill it, poured a sample into my (glass) measuring cylinder and recorded the temperature and apparent abv from which I then calculated the real abv and the flow rate. When I was reasonably certain that I was into the hearts (by taste) I pushed the power up to 750W, rebalanced the coolant (but not straight away so I got a slightly warm jar and lost a very small amount of vapour... I shall be whipping myself later by way of punishment!) and continued. From jar 13 I started tasting samples and in jar 14 I was reasonably sure I was getting some tails, jar 15 confirmed this, and so on jar 16, it having gotten pretty late at night, I ignored my 300ml mark, cranked the power back up to 3kW and filled the jar (about 700ml) before turning everything off. I don't have a reflux column yet, and I don't have the space to store lots of feints until I can build it, so I wasn't going to force myself to stay awake to try and collect the evil-tasting stuff for some future project.

Here is my table of "data".
Jar ABV temp time corr. abv flow rate (lph) notes
1 82 18.1 82.4
2 79.5 15.9 80.5
3 79 15 0:09:22 80.2 1.92
4 79 15.3 0:09:44 80.1 1.85
5 79 15.8 0:09:14 80 1.95
6 78.5 15.7 0:09:21 79.5 1.93
7 79 16.7 0:10:00 79.8 1.80 into hearts now i think
8 78.2 15.8 0:10:05 79.2 1.79
9 79 20.7 0:07:53 78.8 2.28 Increased power to 750W
10 86 48.6 0:08:05 78.6 2.23
11 78 20.2 0:08:05 78 2.23
12 76.5 17.3 0:08:45 77.1 2.06 Missed the mark and overshot
13 76 16.7 0:07:59 76.7 2.25
14 75.5 17 0:08:08 76.2 2.21 Definitely tailsy
15 74.5 16.8 0:08:14 75.2 2.19
So what did learn from this run?

Firstly, while I can do a high-power stripping run of a 15l wash in an evening after the kids have gone to bed, the longer run time of a spirit run means I really need to be doing them in the day time. By 22h30 I'm not alert enough to be doing this. Forgetting to adjust the coolant was a stupid mistake, that I caught rapidly, but which could have gone wrong very easily. All in, the actual run took about 2h45 from when I started collecting. Add on the set-up time (I just powered down and went to bed at the end and took it all down this morning) and it takes too long to be comfortable in one evening.

Secondly, my current technique for collecting low wines works really well, but will hit the limits if I increase the wash size. Given that the next plan is HBB in 25l washes, I'm going to need a bigger collecting container as my biggest stainless steel pan can take about 4l before it gets unwieldy.

While logging the data is interesting, 300ml increments at 750W goes just fast enough that by the time I've done and recorded all my measurements it's time to swap jars. In the future I'll probably just log the time and measure the abv when I do the blend.

It would be really interesting to do a higher-powered spirit run of birdwatcher's and compare the jars directly (To continue the experiments begun in Speed of stripping & speed of spirit runs) but I don't think I've got the time, or the jars necessary to do this. Maybe in a 6 months or so when I get around to extending the shed and moving the fermenting and distilling apparatus out of the house.

I'm going to rest the jars for at least a full 24 hours before attempting a blend. I'm not looking for a perfect neutral, just something vaguely flavourless to pre-age oak sticks, and provide a base for gin and berry macerations. I have an easy source of wheat and some high temperature enzymes so the next batch of neutral will probably be grain-based.

And that's enough verbosity...
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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by NormandieStill » Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:34 am

In the end jars 7 through 12 made the cut. Jar 6 had a clear headsy smell that I couldn't detect all in jar 7. Jar 12 had the start of an oilyness in mouth feel. Jar 13 had some bitterness and a faint hint of some flavour element of tomato... not the whole complex tomato flavour, but just one element of it.

I did a test blend including jar 6, and it made for a slightly more interesting drink, but since I don't intend to be drinking this directly, but rather heavily flavouring it I decided to leave it out. My feints jar is now getting somewhat heavy and at some point I'm going to run out of 5l demi-johns. Gonna have to build that column and reflux condenser! ;-)
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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by Yummyrum » Sun Apr 11, 2021 1:46 pm

NormandieStill wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:34 am
Gonna have to build that column and reflux condenser!
That will be a game changer for you . Better quality and more of it per run . But be prepared for long distilling sessions .

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by Bushman » Sat May 01, 2021 8:33 am

Ran out of neutral making my apple pie so just started my first birdwatchers in probably 6 years to replenish my neutrals for making liqueurs.

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by mrplow » Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:05 pm

Thanks so much for this community and this fool proof recipe.

I'm just finishing off my second ferment. First one I discuss in my first still thread

I pitched my yeast 3 days ago, with an original gravity of 1.074. Today it's down to 0.997! I'm not sure why it dropped so fast this time compared to last but I'm not complaining. Maybe because the original gravity was lower and it's been hot as balls out.

Followed the birdwatchers.info calculations. I inverted the sugar both times but this time I had to turn it down to simmer for a couple hours cause I had to run to the store and I didn't want to get the wife to keep stirring it for me.
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