Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

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Reaverman
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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by Reaverman » Sun Dec 27, 2020 8:04 am

Do I need bentonite or other finings to clear up the wash prior to putting in the still?

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by Saltbush Bill » Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:50 am

No you dont......let it settle a few days before distilling.

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by Reaverman » Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:46 pm

Saltbush Bill wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:50 am
No you dont......let it settle a few days before distilling.
That's fantastic, cheers mate

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by sampvt » Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:24 am

tomato paste is hard to find in the uk, can we use tomato passata or should we boil, blitz and reduce normal tomatoes, which is effectively tomato paste.

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by tomtom » Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:59 pm

Tomato puree is nearly the same
Just make sure it has no preservatives in it

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by CoogeeBoy » Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:57 pm

sampvt wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:24 am
tomato paste is hard to find in the uk, can we use tomato passata or should we boil, blitz and reduce normal tomatoes, which is effectively tomato paste.
Sam,
I am pretty certain the role of the tomato paste is as a nutrient for the yeast.
If you can't get tomato paste then you could always look for other nutrients.
Seen some references to Vegemite (I presume Marmite would be the same) which of course is made from yeast (but Vegemite is the superior product of course being Australian).

Some other nutrients I have seen referred to are DAP and boiled yeast. The boiled yeast could be of interest to you as you could harvest the yeast from each wash as both a new starter and as a nutrient (boiled).

Have a look at Shineo's sugar wash or TTFV for comparison.

Not criticising Birdwatchers but there are alternatives to the tomato paste.

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by sampvt » Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:22 pm

CoogeeBoy wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:57 pm
sampvt wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:24 am
tomato paste is hard to find in the uk, can we use tomato passata or should we boil, blitz and reduce normal tomatoes, which is effectively tomato paste.
Sam,
I am pretty certain the role of the tomato paste is as a nutrient for the yeast.
If you can't get tomato paste then you could always look for other nutrients.
Seen some references to Vegemite (I presume Marmite would be the same) which of course is made from yeast (but Vegemite is the superior product of course being Australian).

Some other nutrients I have seen referred to are DAP and boiled yeast. The boiled yeast could be of interest to you as you could harvest the yeast from each wash as both a new starter and as a nutrient (boiled).

Have a look at Shineo's sugar wash or TTFV for comparison.

Not criticising Birdwatchers but there are alternatives to the tomato paste.
Ive got some DAP, Gypsum and Epsom salts so ill drop a touch of those in with the Passata. Im pretty sure passata is similar but I didnt see any issues the last time I used it. I followed a tomato paste wash here in the uk using canned tomatoes and Pasatta, so im guessing it was a version of Birdwatchers. Im guessing the tomato paste delivers all the nutrients needed to feed the Yeat cells as they merrily chomp away at the sucrose, so giving the yeats a little more breakfast than needed isnt gonna hurt. Im not doing it till next week when my new 120l fermenter gets here so ill shop around for answers in the meantime. Im sure someone will suggest something. Thanks for your help though, at least I understood your answer.

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by zed255 » Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:30 pm

I always save trub from my finished ferments to boil into future ferments as a yeast nutrient. Seems to work great and only costs you a little effort to collect it. Just store in a jug (loosely capped) in the refrigerator or separate into single use volumes and store in the freezer until ready to use. I wouldn't count on it as the only nutrient, but in my humble opinion it does seem to give a boost to yeast activity and that makes it worth adding to almost any sugar wash recipe.
----------
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If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by CoogeeBoy » Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:43 pm

zed255 wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:30 pm
I always save trub ......
.... separate into single use volumes and store in the freezer until ready to use.
...
That is a great suggestion! My wife is always asking me about those jars at the back of the fridge!
Come to mention it, I think I have found the perfect size storage glass, one of those little ones used for spices.

Thanks for the idea Zed!

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by CoogeeBoy » Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:45 pm

sampvt wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:22 pm

Ive got some DAP, Gypsum and Epsom salts so ill drop a touch of those in with the Passata. Im pretty sure passata is similar but I didnt see any issues the last time I used it. I followed a tomato paste wash here in the uk using canned tomatoes and Pasatta, so im guessing it was a version of Birdwatchers. Im guessing the tomato paste delivers all the nutrients needed to feed the Yeat cells as they merrily chomp away at the sucrose, so giving the yeats a little more breakfast than needed isnt gonna hurt. Im not doing it till next week when my new 120l fermenter gets here so ill shop around for answers in the meantime. Im sure someone will suggest something. Thanks for your help though, at least I understood your answer.
Sam,
Go easy on those and don't add to much or too many, that may add to off flavours if I am not wrong.

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by sampvt » Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:33 am

CoogeeBoy wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:45 pm
sampvt wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:22 pm

Ive got some DAP, Gypsum and Epsom salts so ill drop a touch of those in with the Passata. Im pretty sure passata is similar but I didnt see any issues the last time I used it. I followed a tomato paste wash here in the uk using canned tomatoes and Pasatta, so im guessing it was a version of Birdwatchers. Im guessing the tomato paste delivers all the nutrients needed to feed the Yeat cells as they merrily chomp away at the sucrose, so giving the yeats a little more breakfast than needed isnt gonna hurt. Im not doing it till next week when my new 120l fermenter gets here so ill shop around for answers in the meantime. Im sure someone will suggest something. Thanks for your help though, at least I understood your answer.
Sam,
Go easy on those and don't add to much or too many, that may add to off flavours if I am not wrong.
Since you last posted ive done some research and it would appear that the only difference between tom paste and puree or passata, is the blitzing or boiling of said products. Passata has a few preservatives and can have salts and spices added, but in essence so does paste and puree to a smaller degree, but in so much as they are all tomato with the nutrients still in tact, ive been reliably informed from a food bio person, that there are no damaging elements in none of them that could or would prohibit the yeast from performing or stressing. The best option for me seems to be a big can of plum tomatoes, blitz it, heat it up and reduce the content and use that. Apparently, some nasties get ejected when the boiling takes place, im guessing its a bit like homogenisation. Anyway ill report back as and when I try it.

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by CoogeeBoy » Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:55 pm

sampvt wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:33 am
CoogeeBoy wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:45 pm
sampvt wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:22 pm

Ive got some DAP, Gypsum and Epsom salts so ill drop a touch of those in with the Passata. Im pretty sure passata is similar but I didnt see any issues the last time I used it. I followed a tomato paste wash here in the uk using canned tomatoes and Pasatta, so im guessing it was a version of Birdwatchers. Im guessing the tomato paste delivers all the nutrients needed to feed the Yeat cells as they merrily chomp away at the sucrose, so giving the yeats a little more breakfast than needed isnt gonna hurt. Im not doing it till next week when my new 120l fermenter gets here so ill shop around for answers in the meantime. Im sure someone will suggest something. Thanks for your help though, at least I understood your answer.
Sam,
Go easy on those and don't add to much or too many, that may add to off flavours if I am not wrong.
Since you last posted ive done some research and it would appear that the only difference between tom paste and puree or passata, is the blitzing or boiling of said products. Passata has a few preservatives and can have salts and spices added, but in essence so does paste and puree to a smaller degree, but in so much as they are all tomato with the nutrients still in tact, ive been reliably informed from a food bio person, that there are no damaging elements in none of them that could or would prohibit the yeast from performing or stressing. The best option for me seems to be a big can of plum tomatoes, blitz it, heat it up and reduce the content and use that. Apparently, some nasties get ejected when the boiling takes place, im guessing its a bit like homogenisation. Anyway ill report back as and when I try it.
Good luck, I hope it goes well. Is your problem with getting the paste related to COVID lockdowns by any chance? I hear you lot are hit pretty hard by COVID. Keep safe and well.

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by sampvt » Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:06 pm

CoogeeBoy wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:55 pm
sampvt wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:33 am
CoogeeBoy wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:45 pm
sampvt wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:22 pm

Ive got some DAP, Gypsum and Epsom salts so ill drop a touch of those in with the Passata. Im pretty sure passata is similar but I didnt see any issues the last time I used it. I followed a tomato paste wash here in the uk using canned tomatoes and Pasatta, so im guessing it was a version of Birdwatchers. Im guessing the tomato paste delivers all the nutrients needed to feed the Yeat cells as they merrily chomp away at the sucrose, so giving the yeats a little more breakfast than needed isnt gonna hurt. Im not doing it till next week when my new 120l fermenter gets here so ill shop around for answers in the meantime. Im sure someone will suggest something. Thanks for your help though, at least I understood your answer.
Sam,
Go easy on those and don't add to much or too many, that may add to off flavours if I am not wrong.
Since you last posted ive done some research and it would appear that the only difference between tom paste and puree or passata, is the blitzing or boiling of said products. Passata has a few preservatives and can have salts and spices added, but in essence so does paste and puree to a smaller degree, but in so much as they are all tomato with the nutrients still in tact, ive been reliably informed from a food bio person, that there are no damaging elements in none of them that could or would prohibit the yeast from performing or stressing. The best option for me seems to be a big can of plum tomatoes, blitz it, heat it up and reduce the content and use that. Apparently, some nasties get ejected when the boiling takes place, im guessing its a bit like homogenisation. Anyway ill report back as and when I try it.
Paste seems to be an American thing, we only get concentrated paste in tubes that are flavoured with spices and preservative called puree. Ive never seen pure tomato paste over here. We can get tomato paste, but the European and British paste has salt, lemon and olive oil in. The American paste is just tomatoes boiled filtered and reduced. As I aid, my wife is going to buy me a big can of canned tomatoes, we will boil and sieve then reduce the contents and end up with pure tom paste, or we could just work out how many tomatoes goes into a cup of paste and use fresh toms that have been blitsed as the waer removal isnt that needy as its getting mixed with water anyway.

Good luck, I hope it goes well. Is your problem with getting the paste related to COVID lockdowns by any chance? I hear you lot are hit pretty hard by COVID. Keep safe and well.

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by sampvt » Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:08 pm

CoogeeBoy wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:55 pm
sampvt wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:33 am
CoogeeBoy wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:45 pm
sampvt wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:22 pm

Ive got some DAP, Gypsum and Epsom salts so ill drop a touch of those in with the Passata. Im pretty sure passata is similar but I didnt see any issues the last time I used it. I followed a tomato paste wash here in the uk using canned tomatoes and Pasatta, so im guessing it was a version of Birdwatchers. Im guessing the tomato paste delivers all the nutrients needed to feed the Yeat cells as they merrily chomp away at the sucrose, so giving the yeats a little more breakfast than needed isnt gonna hurt. Im not doing it till next week when my new 120l fermenter gets here so ill shop around for answers in the meantime. Im sure someone will suggest something. Thanks for your help though, at least I understood your answer.
Sam,
Go easy on those and don't add to much or too many, that may add to off flavours if I am not wrong.
Since you last posted ive done some research and it would appear that the only difference between tom paste and puree or passata, is the blitzing or boiling of said products. Passata has a few preservatives and can have salts and spices added, but in essence so does paste and puree to a smaller degree, but in so much as they are all tomato with the nutrients still in tact, ive been reliably informed from a food bio person, that there are no damaging elements in none of them that could or would prohibit the yeast from performing or stressing. The best option for me seems to be a big can of plum tomatoes, blitz it, heat it up and reduce the content and use that. Apparently, some nasties get ejected when the boiling takes place, im guessing its a bit like homogenisation. Anyway ill report back as and when I try it.
Good luck, I hope it goes well. Is your problem with getting the paste related to COVID lockdowns by any chance? I hear you lot are hit pretty hard by COVID. Keep safe and well.
Paste seems to be an American thing, we only get concentrated paste in tubes that are flavoured with spices and preservative called puree. Ive never seen pure tomato paste over here. We can get tomato paste, but the European and British paste has salt, lemon and olive oil in. The American paste is just tomatoes boiled filtered and reduced. As I aid, my wife is going to buy me a big can of canned tomatoes, we will boil and sieve then reduce the contents and end up with pure tom paste, or we could just work out how many tomatoes goes into a cup of paste and use fresh toms that have been blitsed as the waer removal isnt that needy as its getting mixed with water anyway.

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by The Baker » Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:08 pm

Tomato paste is readily available in Australia...

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by sampvt » Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:21 pm

The Baker wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:08 pm
Tomato paste is readily available in Australia...

Geoff
Last time I looked, Leeds in Yorkshire was just over the road from France and on the other side of the world from our Auzie compadres. Seems like between Aus and the USA, you guys have all the goodies, all we Brits have are good looks, humour and the best looking girls on the planet.

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by The Baker » Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:00 pm

sampvt wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:21 pm
The Baker wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:08 pm
Tomato paste is readily available in Australia...

Geoff
Last time I looked, Leeds in Yorkshire was just over the road from France and on the other side of the world from our Auzie compadres. Seems like between Aus and the USA, you guys have all the goodies, all we Brits have are good looks, humour and the best looking girls on the planet.
And modesty.

Geoff
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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by CoogeeBoy » Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:09 pm

sampvt wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:21 pm
The Baker wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:08 pm
Tomato paste is readily available in Australia...

Geoff
Last time I looked, Leeds in Yorkshire was just over the road from France and on the other side of the world from our Auzie compadres. Seems like between Aus and the USA, you guys have all the goodies, all we Brits have are good looks, humour and the best looking girls on the planet.
And a shortage of dentists......

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by sampvt » Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:50 am

CoogeeBoy wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:09 pm
sampvt wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:21 pm
The Baker wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:08 pm
Tomato paste is readily available in Australia...

Geoff
Last time I looked, Leeds in Yorkshire was just over the road from France and on the other side of the world from our Auzie compadres. Seems like between Aus and the USA, you guys have all the goodies, all we Brits have are good looks, humour and the best looking girls on the planet.
And a shortage of dentists......
Can't comment on that mate as I lost all my teeth through chemo when I had treatment for my brain tumour and Lymph node cancer. But England is notorious for bad dental hygiene mainly because our dentists won't let us hold their nuts whilst they operate. That way they wouldn't be so cavalier, lol. Incidentally, I've opened another thread on my gin issues as I didn't want it to go on here as it's not a slight or issue on the recipe on here, its another thing I must be doing wrong.

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by vanstill » Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:35 am

i'm just curious but why are people using tomota paste for a yeast nutrient, why can't you just run down to the local home brew shop a d actually buy yeast nutrient. I've bought 50 grams for when i make wine for $1.39 canadian and for a five gallon batch of apple wine I only use 2.5 tsp. so why tomato paste

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by sampvt » Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:50 am

vanstill wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:35 am
i'm just curious but why are people using tomota paste for a yeast nutrient, why can't you just run down to the local home brew shop a d actually buy yeast nutrient. I've bought 50 grams for when i make wine for $1.39 canadian and for a five gallon batch of apple wine I only use 2.5 tsp. so why tomato paste
Good question but I cant answer it as Im not that clever. Maybe one of the elders of the temple will chip in. I wish I didnt have to use tomato paste as its awfully messy.

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by NZChris » Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:22 pm

vanstill wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:35 am
i'm just curious but why are people using tomota paste for a yeast nutrient, why can't you just run down to the local home brew shop a d actually buy yeast nutrient. I've bought 50 grams for when i make wine for $1.39 canadian and for a five gallon batch of apple wine I only use 2.5 tsp. so why tomato paste
It’s cheap and easy and reliable and you don’t have to go to a HBS for it if you don’t have a local one. That said, I haven’t made one for two and a half years and probably won’t again unless I need to.

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by Saltbush Bill » Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:50 pm

vanstill wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:35 am
why can't you just run down to the local home brew shop a d actually buy yeast nutrient.
Guessing your one of those city people who think every corner has a HBS on it.
It isn't that way for a lot of people in a lot of countries and locations even today.
It was probably even less so back when birdwatcher and other people where developing this recipe.
Tomato paste has all of the nutrients needed to make yeast happy and for a ferment to go well.
Nearly every home in Australia the US and many other countries has tomato paste in the cupboard.....why would you want to make an extra trip to the HBS to buy something that cost twice the price that does the same job?
sampvt wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:50 am
I wish I didnt have to use tomato paste as its awfully messy.
If getting some tomato paste on you is the biggest problem you have in life I reckon your doing pretty damn good :roll: .......lots of folk out there doing it tougher.

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by The Baker » Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:24 am

sampvt wrote: ↑Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:50 am
I wish I didn't have to use tomato paste as its awfully messy.

Hold jar bottom up, almost.
Dig most out roughly with a spoon.
Partly fill jar with water and replace the lid.
Shake vigorously.
Remove lid and pour out contents of jar.
Do those last two again.

No mess, no fuss.

Geoff
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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by vanstill » Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:12 am

my farm is an hour an half from biggest town my family has been brewing beer and wine for 80 yrs i'm just following their recipes and so no i'm not one of those city folk but do have internet and can order things and pick them up on my trip into town. I was wondering if it was for flavour or anything like that

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Re: Birdwatchers sugar wash recipe

Post by NZChris » Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:14 pm

vanstill wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:12 am
my farm is an hour an half from biggest town my family has been brewing beer and wine for 80 yrs i'm just following their recipes and so no i'm not one of those city folk but do have internet and can order things and pick them up on my trip into town. I was wondering if it was for flavour or anything like that
It's for neutral. You might get noticeable flavor if you are greedy with your cuts, or run too fast, but get it right and it should be good enough for gin. For fun, I have reprocessed the feints to concentrate the tomato flavor into a spirit that was only good for Bloody Marys.

In NZ HBSs are an expensive way of getting most things. I'm going to one today to get cheese wax, their other cheese consumables can be imported bulk much cheaper. They have little for distilling that I use except for glassware.

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