Booner's Casual All Corn

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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by FL Brewer »

Hey Blackstrap, how did you grind the corn?
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Big_dog »

Tried boomers today, first mash other than sugar washes. I’ve done a lot of all grain brewing, but nothing with raw corn. For some reason after my first 14 gals of boiling water into 50lb corn my temp was at around 175. :thumbdown: I went ahead and added some Htl, then started the next 14 gal added that in and just waiting for the temp to drop 10 degrees to add the gl. I know the gravity won’t be great but hopefully enough to get 4 or 5%. Did the teeth test and still had a crunch. I think my problem is my boiler only has a 1/2 in valve, so the boiling water comes out slow, and by the time it mixes with the corn the temp has dropped a bunch. Not sure :/. Will update in the am. If it’s real bad I might need to bump up the gravity with some sugar to make it worthwhile. (Didn’t mill the grain as I was doing this while doing yard work and cooking. Crack was pretty fine though- quarter kernel or less)
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by BlackStrap »

FL Brewer wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:16 pm Hey Blackstrap, how did you grind the corn?
Corona style mill that is motorized.
The crack was to a fine course meal.
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by still_stirrin »

BlackStrap wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:58 am
FL Brewer wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:16 pm Hey Blackstrap, how did you grind the corn?
Corona style mill that is motorized.

The crack was to a fine course meal. <— typo? confusing what you wrote...fine...or course?
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by BlackStrap »

The crack was to a fine course meal. <— typo? confusing what you wrote...fine...or course?


Nice Catch SS
It was a course meal...
(in between cracked corn and corn meal you would purchase to make cornbread)
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Honest_Liberty »

Big_dog wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:22 pm Tried boomers today....
That must have been a real trip..
:lol:
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Honest_Liberty »

Here's my second proper approach to this recipe;

21.65 lbs corn, ground to mm sized meal and flour,15 gallons water, split between two HD 10 gallon igloo coolers. Just barely fit.

I'm trying to see if I can get better extraction at 1.6 lbs/ gallon, planning on ending up with 13 gallons assuming the corn will eat up 10% water /lb, IIRC. That's what my math told me was necessary to end up with 13 gallons.

Been about 3 hours. Gonna go check temp and grab a gravity reading
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Honest_Liberty »

I'm very concerned about straining this with the mop wringer, but, we shall see
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Honest_Liberty »

ok, it has been 3 hours. After adding boiling water and grains, my temp after stirring was 175 and I added HT alpha. It looks like I miscalculated and this is only 1.44 lbs/gallon, and my hydrometer reads 1.038, and the pH is right at 6.00.
temp adjustment, from 96 F says 1.043, which what? about 5.91% assuming it ferments down to .998 which is typical for me?

I'm certainly frustrated because I assumed the corn was going to soak up way more grain than this and with the mill as fine as it is, I would have achieved 6.5% SG.
I'm going to test the other container.

Does the clear liquid off the top have a different reading than down in the grains?
this is quite disappointing, because I really anticipated a much higher gravity, and shows if I go 2lbs/gallon, that I should only expect about 7.8-8% starting abv, which is much less than this recipe states. Does feed corn contain 20% less fermentables?

I keep getting worse results the harder I try to dial in this recipe. I was consistently getting 1.050, but I dropped 10 points?! by going from 1.5 lbs/ gallon to 1.4 lbs?! And this was a seriously FINE MILL! grrr. I actually milled this even finer than my last batch, which was at 1.053. I'm perplexed
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Honest_Liberty »

My starting pH must have been off. This makes no sense. I did get full conversion and its sweet, but I certainly could not have gotten full extraction.
The stuff was liquid though the whole time but I just can't keep the water temp above 175 F after stirring in the corn. Maybe having 2lb/gallon will get me there. I wonder if the lower lb/gallon doesn't lower the pH enough. hmm.

I'm going to do another batch after I get home from Vail on sunday. 21 lbs, 10 gallons, and I'm going to double check my beginning pH. The gluco definitely did its job. Can anyone weigh in on this crap percentage? I really want to hit 8% abv otherwise it is not worth me running my still. takes too much time for the volume
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Setsumi »

i use 20kg in 80lt of water and get 1.065 to 1.075, food grade maize meal. think 10kg in 60lt water will be a bit low. keep the heat on while draining the water. measure gravity after gl addition in the clear liquid.
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

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Setsumi wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 9:49 am i use 20kg in 80lt of water and get 1.065 to 1.075, food grade maize meal. think 10kg in 60lt water will be a bit low. keep the heat on while draining the water. measure gravity after gl addition in the clear liquid.
no change after adding gluco. iodine read full conversion.

I just made 7 gallons with 21 lbs so I'm interested to take a gravity reading in a few hours. Temp went way down. 160 for first batch, but I kept it on the boiler for the second mix and added it to the first. HT alpha shredded everything from goop to heavy liquid easy to stir. The HT turns it super liquid almost immediately, but I must not be getting enough heat.

I know how to fix this next time, keep the boiler on for small additions at a time
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by zach »

At 7000 feet elevation the boiling point of water is 198 F. At 5000 feet its 203 F.

Your mixture of corn and boiling water is going to be 10 to 15 F lower than at sea level.

To compensate you need to find a way to heat the mixture a little.
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Honest_Liberty »

zach wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 1:53 pm At 7000 feet elevation the boiling point of water is 198 F. At 5000 feet its 203 F.

Your mixture of corn and boiling water is going to be 10 to 15 F lower than at sea level.

To compensate you need to find a way to heat the mixture a little.
ahhhh. so even though it boils at 204F here, by the time it works with the corn, it drops too much? I'm at ~5400ft ASL
I wait until it boils
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Honest_Liberty »

hit 1.074 with 21 lbs / 7 gallons, temp corrected to 1.079

I'm extremely tired of such pathetic conversion rates. I'm extremely irritated. this is getting to be about enough already.
Seriously? I can't seem to get anywhere near the T&T recipe. I'm Furious
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Zeotropic »

Honest_Liberty wrote:hit 1.074 with 21 lbs / 7 gallons, temp corrected to 1.079

I'm extremely tired of such pathetic conversion rates. I'm extremely irritated. this is getting to be about enough already.
Seriously? I can't seem to get anywhere near the T&T recipe. I'm Furious
I think most people don't get as high as woodshed did. I think the biggest reason is that most people don't have that good of corn. If I remember reading correctly he was buying direct from a local farm.
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by tommysb »

Just some extra data to help with people checking if their yield is 'right' - this is going to be in Euro units.

Trial 1 - Cracked corn
I converted the recipe which suggests 1.8lb corn/(Us) gal water - 800g/3.8litres.
4.75 litres water/KG corn.
210g corn/Litre.

Using 8.5kg Cracked feed corn, run through my 3 roller brewing mill twice, but not super fine crush, and 40litres Water.

Heated the water to boiling, and added to the corn in a 55l bucket. The strike temp turned out to around 90c so it was ok to pitch my alpha enzymes.
As far as I know, I wasn't using sebstar enzymes, but unbranded liquid(no idea of original supplier) from the Polish distillation supplies company.

Alpha amylase spec suggests optimum temp of 80-90c, and pH 5.8-6.8. Usage rate 1ml /6kg Starch. I used about 1.5ml.

Stirred, let it sit, went away for a couple of hours.

Came back, and added some backset to lower the pH, since the specs for the gluco amylase are:

Optimal temp 55-60c, pH range 3-5.5. Rate - 1ml per 2kg starch.

When it was about 60c I added about 4ml gluco.

left it to cool to pitching temp - happened over about 10 hours from first strike water. Uninsulated bucket.

Aerated with a kitchen hand mixer Pitched yeast (Opshaug Kveik, as had it on hand) and 10g DAP around 37c. Starting gravity 1.040. Lower than I anticipated, but I;m not unhappy.

Trial 2 - Corn flour
I can buy fine corn flour for 50c/500g here, figured I'd try it and see what the yield is like.

Same procedure but used only 7kg flour.

- heated strike water to boiling

Similar process. Gummed right up into balls at first that needed lots of stiring to break up, even with the addition of Alpha. Letting it sit a while helped, then stired some more, let it rest, stirred etc.

After dropping to gluco temp, added some backset to lower PH, and added that glucoamylase.

This one was pitched with 200g fresh bakers yeast, around 33c.

SG - around 1.045

So, anything interesting or new here? Not really. Extra data that fine mill affects yield (also the flour is a higher % endosperm compared to all the husks etc on the cracked corn).

The process was really easy.

I could probably increase yield with more boiling of the corn initially. Instead, I'll have to do more boiling on the still to extract the same quantity of alcohol.

The lower abv washed might be good for minimising yeast stress, too.

Thanks Booner!
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Honest_Liberty »

yep. I think based on chewing on the corn, even these small bits that are 1mm on average, have a crunch to them. dangit. I'm not starting the water at high enough temp. It is falling below 180F and therefore probably not saturating.

My solution:
Next boiler will have agitator. I will simply fire up the boiler and agitator and ferment in the boiler. Then just fire it up and agitate it for the run. I'm going to double distill everything anyway so the yeast should distill out on the second run. At this point, I'm willing to pay the upfront $5500 for what I want to significantly reduce my time and to significantly improve my yield.

yea, the quality of corn must be a factor. I called a co-op and originally thought they said better than feed, but upon second phone call she said it was from Kansas and it was feed grade.

UPDATE:
strained liquid off the top. 1.070! Using over double the grains (3 lbs/gallon) I didn't even double my initial gravity. I'm at a loss at this point.
then I decided to mix everything up, strain it, and take a reading: 1.076 at 95F, which corrected should be 1.081 or just over 10%, so I did double.

Looks like I'm stuck at 5% for 1.5 lbs/gallon, so I'm estimating only being able to pull 6.5% with 2lbs until I can learn to keep that water boiling while I fill the cooler.
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by FL Brewer »

Zeotropic wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 8:14 pm
Honest_Liberty wrote:hit 1.074 with 21 lbs / 7 gallons, temp corrected to 1.079

I'm extremely tired of such pathetic conversion rates. I'm extremely irritated. this is getting to be about enough already.
Seriously? I can't seem to get anywhere near the T&T recipe. I'm Furious
I think most people don't get as high as woodshed did. I think the biggest reason is that most people don't have that good of corn. If I remember reading correctly he was buying direct from a local farm.
I find that cooking for at least an hour, two is better, makes a difference in conversion efficiency. I figured this out with my bourbon recipes before I even tried the all corn batch.
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by FL Brewer »

Just ran my stripping run of my all coarse ground corn meal (plus a little sugar) mash, so I can compare the yield of my first mash using cracked corn to this one. I used 20 lbs of corn/meal and 5 pounds sugar in each batch. I also used more water, 2lbs grain per gallon of water with the corn meal batch.

cracked corn yield was 1.97 gallons at 47.1% ABV, or 0.93 gallons of ethanol
corn meal yield was 2.27 gallons at 44.8% ABV, or 1.02 gallons of ethanol.

So, it looks like the net effect of using course ground corn meal and higher water content vs. the cracked corn and lower water content is about a 10% increase in yield. I threw away the first 150 ml of foreshots for both batches and collected the rest up to 98.5C. The corn was well cooked in both cases, the cracked corn was cooked for 2 hrs after being poured into the boiling water, and the corn meal for 1 hr. I used the SebStar and SebAmyl enzymes at the same rates and at the same temps for both batches, added backset before the SebAmyl enzyme addition, and fermented both until dry with bread yeast. Since the corn meal doesn't have the germ, I added two teaspoons of yeast nutrient to the meal batch, none to the cracked corn.

I'm gonna do one more ferment/strip with the mixture of leftover cracked corn and corn meal and do a spirit run on the three combined ferments. Maybe I will do an all cracked corn batch with 2lbs corn/gallon of water, so I can separate the grind vs. grain to water ratio variables........

I paid about $8 for 50 lbs of cracked and $40 for 50 lbs of coarse ground corn meal, so 10% yield increase doesn't justify the extra cost. It is easier, in my opinion, to work with the cracked corn. I'll probably use cracked corn at 2lbs/gallon water for future batches.
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by FL Brewer »

Hmmm, I just realized that when I calculated the 10% yield improvement for corn meal/more water, that was for 20 lbs of corn and 5 lbs of sugar. If you figure the 5 lbs of sugar is responsible for a quart of ethanol, then the yield without sugar would be .68 gallons for cracked/low water, 0.77 for meal/more water, or a 13% improvement. Since the original recipe is no sugar, I guess that's more relevant to this thread.
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by FL Brewer »

Oh, and one more thing I wanted to mention.... I was worried about separating the solids from the liquids to go into the boiler, but it turned out to not be a problem. I poured everything into my fruit press lined with doubled 5 gallon paint strainer bags. The runnoff was surprisingly clear, both when I allowed the liquid to run off without pressure while I was ladling the wash into the press and while I was actually pressing it. The boiler is still full and cooling down, but I don't think I had any scorching or even sticking on the bottom, it was mostly clear liquid into the boiler.
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by aquavita »

I've really good success pre-heating my cracked corn (Producers Pride). I fill 3 aluminum catering trays with 3lbs 14oz each, add water 'till I can see some peeking through, wrap tightly in foil and bake at 190 for 2 hours or so. I used to bake at 300 for 90 minutes, but lost too much corn sticking to the sides. House smells like cornbread baking when I do this.

About 15 minutes before bake time is up, I crank up the pre-loaded (6 gallons water) electric 13 gallon milk can. When bake time is done, I dump about a gallon of 200 degree water in the 7 gallon brew bucket, then add one tray of baked corn, spin the batch with a paint/morter mixer, take a temp reading, if below 190 add measured amount of Sebstar HTL, add more water and repeat "till I hit the 6 gallon mark. I blanket wrap it, put the lid (loosely) on and stick a thermo probe in. Usually within in 10 hours the temp is down to 160 I'll add the Alpha.

Typically hit a SG of 1.058 +/- , let the temps drop to pitch temp and ferment on the grain. I'm not going for a huge conversion number - I know I'm leaving some behind, but I'm looking to keep the yeast happy and not stressed.

I let the yeast do their thing for 2 weeks or so and wring everything out, let it clear and settle. Final SG is always below 1.

Booner's makes a hell of a drop by itself (think caramel corn), thenby adding different blends of other grains to the batch I can add new profiles and mouth feel.

Biggest mistake I think we can make is whipsawing our processes and changing too much at once. YMMV.
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

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I did another batch 20 gallons of water and 40lb of corn. I got it to 180°f, adjusted the ph with a couple gallons of backset, added the high temp enzyme and let it sit insulated over night then in the morning it was 148°f so I adjusted the ph with about 5 gallons of backset (my water ph is really high) and let it sit insulated all day then that night when it finally cooled down I pitched the yeast and it is bubbling like crazy.

I tried the longer time at higher temperature in hopes of getting a bit higher gravity but it was still only about 5% potential alcohol so I am starting to think I just need to use more grain to get it closer to 8%.
The iodine test was negative.

Does my protocol sound good or should I be doing anything different to get more out of my corn?
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Honest_Liberty »

Zeotropic wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:37 pm I did another batch 20 gallons of water and 40lb of corn. I got it to 180°f, adjusted the ph with a couple gallons of backset, added the high temp enzyme and let it sit insulated over night then in the morning it was 148°f so I adjusted the ph with about 5 gallons of backset (my water ph is really high) and let it sit insulated all day then that night when it finally cooled down I pitched the yeast and it is bubbling like crazy.

I tried the longer time at higher temperature in hopes of getting a bit higher gravity but it was still only about 5% potential alcohol so I am starting to think I just need to use more grain to get it closer to 8%.
The iodine test was negative.

Does my protocol sound good or should I be doing anything different to get more out of my corn?
Sounds like you are getting near my results with practically the same protocols
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Zeotropic »

Honest_Liberty wrote:
Zeotropic wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:37 pm I did another batch 20 gallons of water and 40lb of corn. I got it to 180°f, adjusted the ph with a couple gallons of backset, added the high temp enzyme and let it sit insulated over night then in the morning it was 148°f so I adjusted the ph with about 5 gallons of backset (my water ph is really high) and let it sit insulated all day then that night when it finally cooled down I pitched the yeast and it is bubbling like crazy.

I tried the longer time at higher temperature in hopes of getting a bit higher gravity but it was still only about 5% potential alcohol so I am starting to think I just need to use more grain to get it closer to 8%.
The iodine test was negative.

Does my protocol sound good or should I be doing anything different to get more out of my corn?
Sounds like you are getting near my results with practically the same protocols
Yeah I think it's about the best I'm going to get from $7 for 40 lb feed store corn. I think I'm going to try one more time where I actually boil the corn just to see what happens. I'm looking at sourcing some corn direct from the farmer and I might get better results with that.
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Honest_Liberty »

That sounds awesome. In Colorado you would think I could source corn direct but the only option I have is the co op at $.139/lb, but I gotta drive an hour:15 so the time and mpg in my full size pickup doesn't make sense unless I buy a ton... And, well, what the heck would I do with that much corn? It would go bad before I could run it.

However, with China doing everything it can to undermine us at literally every turn, including purchasing monumental tons of our corn, and our "elected officials" openly championing it.. Prices are about to sky rocket. I anticipate a doubling at minimum of feed grade cracked corn prices by end of summer. Gas has already climbed 20% in just two months.

https://www.agweb.com/news/crops/corn/c ... chase-ever

Oh and let's not forget commercial whiskey prices are set to drop substantially. It appears to be temporary but scotch prices are about to drop.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/w ... spended-us.

It's reasons like this that I have to learn to be much more efficient with yield. I do this because I enjoy it and it's still way cheaper, and better, but I'm focused on efficiency. I despise waste. But unlocking every bit of available starch has been weighing on me
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Zeotropic »

Honest_Liberty wrote:That sounds awesome. In Colorado you would think I could source corn direct but the only option I have is the co op at $.139/lb, but I gotta drive an hour:15 so the time and mpg in my full size pickup doesn't make sense unless I buy a ton... And, well, what the heck would I do with that much corn? It would go bad before I could run it.

However, with China doing everything it can to undermine us at literally every turn, including purchasing monumental tons of our corn, and our "elected officials" openly championing it.. Prices are about to sky rocket. I anticipate a doubling at minimum of feed grade cracked corn prices by end of summer. Gas has already climbed 20% in just two months.

https://www.agweb.com/news/crops/corn/c ... chase-ever

Oh and let's not forget commercial whiskey prices are set to drop substantially. It appears to be temporary but scotch prices are about to drop.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/w ... spended-us.

It's reasons like this that I have to learn to be much more efficient with yield. I do this because I enjoy it and it's still way cheaper, and better, but I'm focused on efficiency. I despise waste. But unlocking every bit of available starch has been weighing on me
The hardest thing is that we don't really know what the available starch is in our corn unless we have it analyzed or something.

If you think about it you can buy one to 200 lb of corn and that would keep you going for quite a while and probably make up for your gas.

My current problem is I can find local corn within 15 minutes drive but I'm currently using a magic bullet blender to grind my corn and it works better with already cracked corn so I got to invest in a better grinder before I can buy whole corn.

Whoops I'm getting a bit off topic.
Anyway back to the booners casual all corn. My first batch is been on oak for a few weeks I don't know exactly how long maybe I'm 2 months at most and I think it is phenomenal it's not as good as it could be if I let it age a year or so I'm sure but it is amazing to have actually made something that I really enjoy.
Now I want to start building up some decent aging stock and I think booners is going to be my go-to for that.
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Honest_Liberty »

I bought something like the first one but might upgrade to the second:

I wish I could edit the link to make it smaller on these forums

https://www.northernbrewer.com/products ... rLEALw_wcB

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Electric-Grain ... 9316f680f4
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Re: Booner's Casual All Corn

Post by Honest_Liberty »

Zeotropic wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 9:26 am The hardest thing is that we don't really know what the available starch is in our corn unless we have it analyzed or something.

I think I agree with this
If you think about it you can buy one to 200 lb of corn and that would keep you going for quite a while and probably make up for your gas.
it's too late now. I'm a few weeks away from starting my season for my business and it's 12-14/7 for a good while. Plus I've made so much this off-season that I'm burnt out

My current problem is I can find local corn within 15 minutes drive but I'm currently using a magic bullet blender to grind my corn and it works better with already cracked corn so I got to invest in a better grinder before I can buy whole corn.

Whoops I'm getting a bit off topic.
Anyway back to the booners casual all corn. My first batch is been on oak for a few weeks I don't know exactly how long maybe I'm 2 months at most and I think it is phenomenal it's not as good as it could be if I let it age a year or so I'm sure but it is amazing to have actually made something that I really enjoy.
Now I want to start building up some decent aging stock and I think booners is going to be my go-to for that.
that's awesome you have such great results so soon. I think my stuff has potential but will need minimum 2 years to stack up or be preferable to commercial
Sweetfeed 100 proof for drinking white
All grain bourbon for testing my patience
Whatever else is left goes to the Homefree, because, I hate waste
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