Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby TDS » Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:49 am

John Barleycorn, that's good to hear... I'm saving up for a 5 gallon run, and I gotta be honest, the sediment has got me a little nervous.
"You know, you can just buy that stuff right up the road" he said.
I just smiled, and said quietly, "No you can't".
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby TDS » Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:58 am

How come mine is RED? Monascus Purpureas, Beni-Kojii. The Chinese make red scochu. They say the red bleeds through into the distillate on a molecular level. I'll let you know.
"You know, you can just buy that stuff right up the road" he said.
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby F6Hawk » Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:42 pm

Thanks to your guys for your input. I think rice is far and away my favorite distillation thus far. SO much smoother than a sugar wash! So to put some things into perspective here, and make sure I have it right...

The shorter the grain, the easier to break down and ferment. Of course, as the grain length goes down, the cost goes up, so that's a factor. One thing I am trying next is that I ran my rice thru my mill about 3 times, and now have rice "sand" instead of grains. Hope this will help in the breaking down of the grain when I cook it. I have some yeast balls on order, and am holding off making a new batch until they arrive, hoping to try the balls and no enzymes as TDS touts.

TDS - Do you just take all the sediment (trub) from your old mash and dump it into the new mash once it's cooled, basically re-using the yeast balls? Or do you add new balls to each new mash?

Wash the rice in cold water until it runs clear. Hmmm, not sure about this one. Aren't we washing off starches that could be converted to sugar? I never rinse my rice that I cook with, unless I am making sticky rice for sushi. But whether or not you opt to rinse, be sure to soak the rice in water at least overnight, it will absorb some water this way and reduce the cooking time a tad.

Gelatinization temp for rice is 176°, so ensure you go above that while cooking. Keep stirring. Last time, I cooked til it was porridge, then enzymed on the way down. Next time, I plan to add a teaspoon of AA about 155° on the way up, let it rest a while at that temp, then take it higher to hit the gel stage, hoping for a tad thinner product at the higher temps. And of course, add AA on the way down (~155°), and GA (~145°), then on down to pitching temp of 90° or lower.

No more squeezing of the product, will just try to "gold pan" as JB mentioned above.

Am I missing anything that might be helpful to others?

I know UR original recipe was pretty large, so here's my breakdown for a 5-gal batch:
Water 5.0 Gallons
Rice 6.1 Lbs
Amylase 1.5 Tsp
Sugar 3.4 Lbs (Omitting this for an AG run)
Glu Amylase 1.5 Tsp
Yeast 2.0 Tbs (17 g active dry)
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby TDS » Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:16 pm

I recommend rinsing, in processing the removal of the husks generates a lot of the dust, they don't ferment anyways, if they do it can change the flavor profile.....and some of it is insect parts and rat turds, so, you know...
Here's my current recipe, I don't add any water.
-7.5 lbs rice dry weight, cook it, let it cool below 90f.
-4-6 asian yeast balls, crushed (aspergillus, usually some oryzae and others, it's regional. SE Asian sometimes it turns Yellow, it's fine don't panic, lols. Usually it will be a milky white, you can't add too much or little of the yeast balls and they're pretty cheap. I put them in a ziploc then whack it with the round side of a ladle to make a rough grind/powder, then soak that and mix it in. You can use just these, they root in the rice and produce amylase, then process the sugars converted into sweet sweet booze.
-1-2 lbs red yeast rice (Beni Koji, or Red Koji... Monascus purpureas)*optional - it's a thing I'm playing with, but it tastes all fruity in the wine.
-Soak the crushed yeast balls and/or red yeast rice with warm water, about 90F, for about ten minutes.
-Mix it into the rice by hand in your bucket (Wash your hands first)
-Cap, Airlock, Go Away, Don't Touch.
-After 21 days, strain off the liquid. Drink it or bottle it.
-Done.
Scale up or save up to run it. I hear the Red bleeds right into your distillate, especially with a pot, but I haven't run it yet.
*** You can wait longer and get more rice converted for a higher yield, for a nuetral yes, for the flavor (Scochu, Angak, whatever, or just to drink the rice wine) then around 21 days.
I'm STILL trying to save up 5 gallons but I keep drinking it. I might have to devote another bucket or two if I'm ever going to reach my goal. I might just go with the 3 gallons I have...
Beware bottle bombs, it may continue to ferment if not pastuerized, especially if you put it in one gallon carboys...... True Story. Cold crashing might or might not stop it. Keep it Dark, not totally, but don't leave it in direct sunlight, once I got a green film on the top of a carboy, smelled bad, dumped it.
Yeilds 1.5-2 gallons the first time, 2-2.5 gallons each time after that, around 16% abv, and the sediments a bitch to get out. In the wine, I drink it, it's good. It's super fine, so the "mouthfeel" or whatever is good.
Reuse the solids with more cooked rice, just like your trub, so yeah I'm not adding anymore yeasts, just more cooked cooled plain white rice. Cook the rice ahead of time so you can make a smooth transition and the rice cools... hot rice will kill your buddies.
Try not to hang it too long to drip because it might get aceto and vinegar up. It takes a lot for this to happen because the molds/yeasts themselves are pretty tough, but more than 12-24 hours your taking a big chance.
Hope that helps, it's what I do, prolly better ways for some stuff but this works for me every time.
Cheers!
:twisted:
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"You know, you can just buy that stuff right up the road" he said.
I just smiled, and said quietly, "No you can't".
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby F6Hawk » Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:26 pm

You say you don't add water, but you gotta, to cook rice. How much water do you add when you are cooking it? Are you cooking it in a rice cooker, or boiling it in a BOP? Gotta get it above 176° for it to turn to gel.
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby John Barleycorn » Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:14 am

Of course, as the grain length goes down, the cost goes up, so that's a factor.

That's a big factor. I can get long grain for almost half the cost of medium grain. But when I used medium grain, the lees would compress much better and I could also get better conversion. So I decided to pay more and stick with the medium grain.

Generally, the shorter the grain, the higher the amylopectin content, although some medium grain rice can have more amylopectin than certain short grain varieties. This may not be a big deal if you don't care about clearing. I've tried it both ways (clear/cloudy) and prefer clearing. When the amylopectin content in higher you'll also usually get less/softer gel as things cool off. But this might not be a big deal either if you're mashing at higher temps since you'll convert before the starch gets a chance to retrograde.

The other thing about the short/medium grain varieties is that they can be milled (polished) more effectively than long grain (they're "fatter"). Most of the lipids and proteins are concentrated in the outer layer of the endosperm ... which can adversely affect the flavor of your wine. That's one of the reasons the sake guys like the highly polished rice. How this might affect the flavor in your distillate I can't say from experience since I never did a comparison. But if you plan on mixing some rice wine or rice syrup in when you dillute, it's at least something to consider.

I don't boil -- I steam. The rinsing may be more of an issue when you steam as it helps in preventing the kernels from clumping together. The soaking can help when you boil ... and it's essentially mandatory when you steam. If you steam and don't soak, you'll end up with kernels that have an ungelatinized center, or you'll end up taking forever getting it to gelatinize.
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby TDS » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:31 am

:ebiggrin:
F6Hawk wrote:You say you don't add water, but you gotta, to cook rice. How much water do you add when you are cooking it? Are you cooking it in a rice cooker, or boiling it in a BOP? Gotta get it above 176° for it to turn to gel.


I use a small black and decker rice cooker, 2 cups rice 3 cups water.
It has a button like a toaster so it doesn't ever burn, no matter how much I drink. :shock:
The rice comes out cooked, I add no water afterwards.
I can run batches all night while I drink and play video games, dump them in the bucket,
set up another one, over and over...
then let it cool overnight. Hot rice sterilizes the bucket too.

I am using a recipe designed for rice wine, or a wash that is drinkable on its own.

Distillation renders many of these considerations unnecessary, However,
I believe a better tasting wash leads to a better tasting product. I have patience too, I have other washes.

I am not doing something "better" than other rice washers, we are doing different things.

I'll be running 5 gallons of it at an estimated 16% abv in a week or so, my next batch is ready the 26th.
(3.5 gallons saved already are at 16.5%)
I have 3.5 gallons saved, so if I get 1.5-2 gallons (and don't drink any more, lols),
I should get a run in then, depending on when I get the time.
I'll be sure and post back.
Cheers!
:twisted:
"You know, you can just buy that stuff right up the road" he said.
I just smiled, and said quietly, "No you can't".
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby F6Hawk » Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:55 am

Makes sense, TDS. I love my rice cooker, it's perfect every time. You might consider adding more water... I use 1 C rice to 1.75 C water for everyday use. And since I am married to a Filipina, I mean EVERY day, lol. I suspect 1:2 would work, also. Will find out as soon as my "balls" arrive in the mail...
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby TDS » Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:45 am

F6Hawk wrote:Makes sense, TDS. I love my rice cooker, it's perfect every time. You might consider adding more water... I use 1 C rice to 1.75 C water for everyday use. And since I am married to a Filipina, I mean EVERY day, lol. I suspect 1:2 would work, also. Will find out as soon as my "balls" arrive in the mail...


If you get stuck let me know, I'll send you an asian mold care package.
I've got pounds of them in clear plastic bins in my living room.
True Story.

Mind the bread in your ice cream sandwich!
The Portugese goes best with sherbert.
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"You know, you can just buy that stuff right up the road" he said.
I just smiled, and said quietly, "No you can't".
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby pounsfos » Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:42 am

I will be making this next, can't wait!!
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby F6Hawk » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:13 am

TDS wrote:If you get stuck let me know, I'll send you an asian mold care package.
I've got pounds of them in clear plastic bins in my living room.


Be careful what ye offer, I may take you up on it!
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby TDS » Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:34 am

Not a problem, it's always available and always cheap
in Chinatown, Boston.
:twisted:
"You know, you can just buy that stuff right up the road" he said.
I just smiled, and said quietly, "No you can't".
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby F6Hawk » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:32 am

Cheap is the easy part. Especially when I have been tasting the cuts. I'll gladly pay!

I am excited to make some rice that I didn't have to boil for a long time and then enzyme... this sounds like fun!
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby TDS » Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:56 pm

Just about to slip out to Kam man for sone sugarcane juice and fruit for some girlie party jars,

I always grab extra when I'm there,
Pm me I'll ship some out Monday if I get up early enough
:twisted:
"You know, you can just buy that stuff right up the road" he said.
I just smiled, and said quietly, "No you can't".
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby AAIndigo » Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:05 am

This may be a dumb question But: Are you guys fermenting on the rice or racking off the liquid, adding sugar, and fermenting?
The original recipe never mentioned the removal of the rice so I have to think you are fermenting on it but just wanted to make sure

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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby rozer9981 » Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:25 am

hi,
As far as i am concerned about your question,
you should consult some expert for it.
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby Stringbender » Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:45 am

Great first post ^ :wave:

Glad you bumped this though, I think I am going to try some rice!
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby midwest shinner » Sun Aug 04, 2013 11:19 am

I do ferment on the rice, it settles nicely to the bottom with the yeast after fermentation is complete making racking easy.This is a fantastic recipe, somehow using ec1118 wine yeast mine developed some wonderful fruity esters. It left my fermenter smelling like i had just made some sort of fruit wash in it.
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby AAIndigo » Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:44 pm

midwest shinner wrote:I do ferment on the rice, it settles nicely to the bottom with the yeast after fermentation is complete making racking easy.This is a fantastic recipe, somehow using ec1118 wine yeast mine developed some wonderful fruity esters. It left my fermenter smelling like i had just made some sort of fruit wash in it.


Thanks for the reply. I couldnt wait for an answer and ended up fermenting on the rice so all is good. 12 gallons fermenting away with a steady bubble. I also used the EC1118 yeast. The plan is to strip a bunch and colect for a spirit run.

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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby midwest shinner » Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:04 pm

Cool that's exactly what i did, 2 runs and got a nice vodka with lite flavor and good mouthfeel. i wouldn't normally use ec1118 except for stuck ferments cuz it tends to strip a lot of flavor from the wash, but since the goal was as near neutral as possible, it is perfect for it. I would like to try this thru my reflux column when its finished cuz I'm betting it will make a damn fine neutral
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby AAIndigo » Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:57 am

Day 6 and this is still chugging strong, Man I have to learn how to stagger my ferments so I can run at least 1 batch a weekend.

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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby Antaean » Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:41 pm

does anyone recommend a site to buy the Alpha Amylase and Gluco Amylase? I looked at midwestsupplies.com but they do not seem to have them both, unless I just did not look correctly
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby Harley Wolf » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:22 pm

Try MileHigh or Hillbilly Stills.
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby griz » Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:00 pm

New 50 lt stainless pot finally arrived , so time to brew some rice vodka . absolutly no added sugar .using 2 liquid enzymes ..the first is Liquozyme Sc Ds [ alpha amylase ] the second is Zymase MA [ gluco Amylase ] ...the method .
I started with 30lts of water which i brought to the boil ...I added 8 kg of medium grain rice and brought back to a rolling boil for 20 minutes..at this stage the pot was 3/4 full of cooked puffed up rice , I then added 3 lts of warm water and 4 lts of cold water for the pure fact that it just looked like a huge pile of cooked rice with minimal water left ,turned of the gas and let sit until the temp droped down to 80 C ...I then added 12 mls of Liquozyme Sc Ds .....within 2 minutes the transformation was astounding .....liquefaction of the mass of rice....a small residual amount of rice remains........I then let it sit and slowly work away until the temp reaches 55 C , I then add 12 mls of Zymase MA and retain that temp for 2 hours.......then let cool to 35 c and add 1 packet of Still Spirts Classic Turbo Yeast ...as thats all I had left in the cupboard ..........I intend to try different yeast types to attain the best product..........keep temp at 25 c to 30 c.......more to follow .
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby shine406 » Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:45 pm

Is there anything wrong with bringing your cooking water up to a boil before adding the rice? I see most people bring everything to a boil together. I do not have a false bottom brewing pot. I figured it would be easier to prevent scorching if I brought the water to a boil first and slowly stir in the rice/pre-soaked rice. I cant wait to try this recipe, just need to order some enzymes!
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby Antaean » Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:22 am

shine406 wrote:Is there anything wrong with bringing your cooking water up to a boil before adding the rice? I see most people bring everything to a boil together. I do not have a false bottom brewing pot. I figured it would be easier to prevent scorching if I brought the water to a boil first and slowly stir in the rice/pre-soaked rice. I cant wait to try this recipe, just need to order some enzymes!


I had this same question as to boiling water first then add the rice.....will it stay in the temp range long enough?
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby griz » Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:43 pm

a correction to my earlier post, I only used 5kg of shortgrain rice .... with using the turbo yeast it fermented out quick and after running it thru my reflux still I got 4 lts at 40% of finished product , very very smooth......so 1 lt of finished product per 1.25kgs of rice .
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby griz » Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:18 pm

and I got 2 lts at 82.5% thru the reflux still , ist lt was 90% second 75% .....want to try a different yeast next time ......any suggestions ?
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby tropik » Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:25 am

Ok...so I've just read through all the pages and I plan on doing this recipe. Sounds like a promising vodka. I would like to do less sugar and more converted rice, actually maybe an all rice ferment. My fermenter is a 55 gal barrel and I usually do 40 gallon ferments. I can do all the math to figure out how much rice and everything I need. My question is can I do the conversion in my fermenter? The biggest pot I have to boil rice is 3 gal so I would be converting a ton of batches. Or I could do multiple rice cooks and dump each one into the fermenter as it finishes. This should also keep the temp up until I'm done cooking all of the rice. Then add my alpha amylase to the total batch once I reach proper temp. Hit it with the mud mixer and cover for the 90 minutes or until temp has dropped low enough for the gluco and pitch my yeast. Does this sound right? I have never converted any starches. This process could work for other grains too I would assume. Has anyone tried UJSSM with rice instead of corn? Would that even work?
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby aj2456 » Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:12 am

yeah i reckon a fermentor would be fine- probably worth wrapping some blankets around it though but i imagine it will hold its heat fairly well anyway. The logic sounds good- i would wait to pitch the yeast till its at a lower temp- otherwise might get a bit of a hot ferment with less than neutral flavours (and sulfurous smells)
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