Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby griz » Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:33 am

before I got my 50lt pot I use to cook my rice in small matches in a microwave ricecooker and just tip each batch into my fermentor then add water ...keeping a total of what you put in..............and the rest is the same as above..to get 1lt of finsihed product per 1.25 kg of rice is a great converstion .
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby F6Hawk » Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:56 pm

Using a rice cooker is the way to go. Grinding your rice first helps too. Alternatively, one could cook it in the cooker, add extra water and make it really soft, then after it cools put it in a blender with water and make it liquid. Lots of extra work though.

The rice in a cooker plus asian yeast balls... now THAT'S simplicity at its finest! No water added.
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby Ga_goat » Fri Dec 27, 2013 4:31 pm

I wonder how it would work with wild rice , there is a large shallow "flat" pond about a mile from me that is thick with wild rice . Uncle Tommy used to gather some of it a couple of times a year wonder what he used it for ?
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby fqu8847 » Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:48 am

So i now have tried to do a urrv wash. first wash was with uncooked rice (experiment really) and got no conversion at all. big surprise! :crazy: but the next time i tried i reused the rice that was left over and got an amazing conversion. mixed three 5gallon buckets of wash. 5# white sugar and 12# rice (properly cooked) to each bucket. SG was @ 1.053 from the sugar alone. (minimal rice conversion had taken place) after a week of steady fermentation, i had a FG of 1.060?!?!?!? you can smell the alcohol. you can taste the alcohol. but its still sweet. :wtf: could this be from the rice finally converting? please help me understand what happened.
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby aquavita » Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:40 pm

FQU -

How'd this turn out??
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby vicrider » Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:06 pm

Tried an AG wash but no success. Used the following:
6 lbs medium grain rice
5 gal water
beta amylase 1.5 tsp
gluco amylase 1.5 tsp
15 gm ec-1118

Cooked rice for 20 min then cooled to 150 and added ba and held for an hour, cooled to 140 and added ga and allowed to cool
to pitching temp and pitched. The rice had broken down till almost nothing solid was left so figured I had done ok so didnt test.
That afternoon I seemed to have a stuck ferment so did an iodine test and lo and behold I had gotten no conversion. Any way to test and see if the enzymes are any good? I had originally ordered Alpha amylase but they sent a bag marked BA. I figured I should have gotten at least some conversion.
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby John Barleycorn » Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:58 pm

vic,

Just a few comments:

- Six pounds of rice in 5 gallons of water will produce a lower gravity wort. With those proportions if you get good conversion your OG should be somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.040 (~5.5 %). Just as a reference, I use 16 lbs for a 23L wash. It's also helpful to take a gravity reading after you complete your mash so you have some idea about how you're doing with the conversion.

- Keep in mind that you can't trust your gravity reading when it comes to how fermentable your wort is. Simply getting the starch granules to rupture and leach into your water will bring the gravity up ... as will a wort full of unfermentable dextrins.

- I've found the iodine test to be fairly useless with my rice washes ... it always turns dark blue ... even when my washes finish well below 1.000. So I don't bother with iodine testing any more.

- The fact that "rice had broken down till almost nothing solid was left" tells me your BA (the alpha for liquefaction) is probably doing its job. But alpha is like a chainsaw, you need the gluco (the wood chipper) to work properly to break the larger starch chains down to fermentable sugars. I had several washes in a row that went from 1.090 down to about 1.050 and stopped cold. The problem was my gluco and went away once I got my hands on some fresh stuff.

- You may want to consider a temp closer to 135 F for your GA. Also, GA likes a lower pH than the BA. A pH around 4 is what I target. I use test strips and a little citric acid for adjustment prior to applying the GA.

- I've found that the mash thickness does affect performance. You didn't mention how much water you're using, but I've settled right around 1.25 quarts/lb. If you use too much water, the performance suffers. With too little water, things are a lot less managable.

In any case, if you want to test your enzymes you might want to try a mini-mash. I've done a lot of these for various experiments ... very low effort. Just use a pound of rice and a 2-quart water jug as a mash tun. I just use whatever yeast the wife has in the cabinet & ferment in a cleaned out milk jug. No need to be sanitary as I just dump the lot down the drain after I get my FG measurement. It's a real bummer to end up with 5+ gallons that are hopelessly stuck just because a tablespoon of powder is too old ... I know how it feels. :x. So a simple test might be just what the doctor ordered.
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby vicrider » Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:51 pm

Thanks John,
I appreciate the pointers, and will do a few "mini-mashes" to try and see where the process is breaking down.
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby DoublyDooble » Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:45 pm

I think I'm going to get at least a few more runs under my belt with Birdwatcher's or All-Bran first, but ever since reading this thread, I've had an itching to do a rice vodka at some point in the (not too distant) future. It's always rolling around in the ol' gray matter. Was at the Asian market today to get some ingredients to make curry for dinner, decided to just check out the prices on the bulk rice. I'm curious what other folks are currently paying for rice? Cheapest rice there was the 100lb bulk bag of long-grain white rice for $46, or obviously 46cents/lb. Most of the smaller bags were closer to $0.90/lb. Sugar costs me about $0.40/lb. Even though the smaller bags of rice were almost double the cost I wonder if it's worth buying the 100# bag. Guess I should do a couple small runs first to see how it goes before lugging a big sack o' rice home.
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby John Barleycorn » Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:10 pm

DoublyDooble wrote:Cheapest rice there was the 100lb bulk bag of long-grain white rice for $46, or obviously 46cents/lb.

I'm not sure where you are ... but that sounds a bit pricey for long grain rice at that volume. That's roughly the price/lb I pay for medium grain in 20 lb bags ... maybe check Sam's Club (or something like it) for bulk rice ... it'll probably be less expensive than the Asian market.
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby cajunmuscadine » Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:05 pm

The is a small distillery where I live that makes a rice vodka and it sells very well. Donner/Peltier distillery is the name.
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby NKT » Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:00 pm

I started up a batch of rice wash for vodka today...

50lb of rice in 20 gallons of boiling water makes a sticky mess... lots of work to break it up... this is more work than corn! Let it steep for a few hours then started adding enzymes a bit at a time to help loosen things up. Added 1.5oz amylase at about 145°F then 3lb 6-row barley malt at 140°F. It's turned into a thin sweet soup now... I'll pitch DADY tomorrow morning when it has cooled to pitching temperature. I'll post results and tasting notes after I run it :D

Edit: pitched the DADY tonight... I noticed that the surface of the wash was around 90°F while the rest was around 120°F. I pitched the yeast on top and let it sit... I'm thinking this will let it revive and reproduce on the top cooler layer while the rest is cooling down to the temps where yeast can live.
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby madmace » Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:45 am

the reflux will give you a cleaner ,less flavor than the pot still. imagine a sprit that has little taste like this one then removing all but 10 % of it .that's what you have if you use a reflux. hope this helps
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby madmace » Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:19 pm

mine came off at 7% potential before the sugar addition. the amount of sugar used 10 lbs came out to be around 7% also for the size wash I did. hope this helps
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby DAD300 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:24 pm

+1 on everything JB said...the iodine test is useless.

Wish I'd seen this earlier... I hope you didn't throw it out.

Find a Chinese grocery and get some Chinese yeast balls. They have yeast and Koji in them and will work whether your enzymes did or not. Crush one per 3-5 gallons and mix lightly. This will get a layer of alcohol on top in a few days and take a week or more to work to completion.

I've also malted some brown rice and used it like any other malt process.
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby eVenom » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:01 pm

NKT wrote:I started up a batch of rice wash for vodka today...

50lb of rice in 20 gallons of boiling water makes a sticky mess... lots of work to break it up... this is more work than corn! Let it steep for a few hours then started adding enzymes a bit at a time to help loosen things up. Added 1.5oz amylase at about 145°F then 3lb 6-row barley malt at 140°F. It's turned into a thin sweet soup now... I'll pitch DADY tomorrow morning when it has cooled to pitching temperature. I'll post results and tasting notes after I run it :D

Edit: pitched the DADY tonight... I noticed that the surface of the wash was around 90°F while the rest was around 120°F. I pitched the yeast on top and let it sit... I'm thinking this will let it revive and reproduce on the top cooler layer while the rest is cooling down to the temps where yeast can live.



How is this coming along?

I am really looking forward to finishing my new still and try a batch of this!
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby Erichimedes » Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:30 pm

Hey all, just read through this whole post, and am really fired up about trying a rice/barley vodka. I may approach it slightly differently though. I don't mind the flavor that malt adds, so this is what I've worked up.

So, the ingredients I have are 6-row (high enzyme) malted barley, white rice, and sugar. My thought is:
-5 gallons water
-8lbs white rice. Cook until soft.
-4lbs 6-row malt.
-Mash for 90 minutes at 148DegF.
-Take a SG reading, and then double the amount of sugars in the mash by adding sugar. End goal: roughly 14% ABV.
-Cool. Pitch EC-1118

If it turns out as nicely as I hope, I'll do a second mash, strip them, and run them. Only have a 8G boiler, so this is my modus operandi. I also promise to post results and detailed descriptions of everything!

I just want to check with the folks who've tried all this before. Am I missing any major data here?
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby DAD300 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:43 pm

Remember you can malt brown, unpolished rice...
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby Erichimedes » Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:06 am

How's the conversion? Do you think malting is enough to convert a large amount of the starches to sugars?
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby DAD300 » Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:12 am

Unfortunately I can't quote a conversion from just malted rice.

I've always added the Chinese yeast balls that have koji. I know the malted rice helps, because it sped up the process. I just can't say how much.

I next want to try one with just the liquid enzymes.
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby aj2456 » Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:36 am

finally been having a go at this recipe using the dual enzyme method and finally seem to be getting some positive results, rice slurrys been fermenting steadily (did need some nutrients though) for about a week now, one went a bit sulphury (hence the nutreints) but seems to be recovering-

i knew this one would be a goer when the mix tasted sweet (used alpha only the first time and got flavourless mush)

does anyone know if its ok to do the strip run on the rice mulch- using propane in a keg? ie will it burn

, or should i attempt to strain with a mashing bag/ via a mash tun and maybe recycle the rice with another mash???
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby DAD300 » Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:48 am

aj, you've hit on my one problem with rice...separating it is a beatch...

I've always tried to sieve and then filter. My next will be in a hanging bag inside a pot. Then I'm sure I'll get nuts and be squeezing the bag.
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby aj2456 » Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:05 am

right when the mulch stops fermenting i think i'll try it on the grain- hoping that like the potato mashes i read about that as rice is mostly starch (which we have converted) it should be ok

especially if stirred while bringing to boil on gas (probably with a length of 15mm copper leftover) and some copper boil chips

i dont fancy straining that stuff, had enough of that with my apple pomace, if i was gonna do anything i would use my mashtun setup i think
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby NKT » Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:38 pm

eVenom wrote:
NKT wrote:I started up a batch of rice wash for vodka today...

50lb of rice in 20 gallons of boiling water makes a sticky mess... lots of work to break it up... this is more work than corn! Let it steep for a few hours then started adding enzymes a bit at a time to help loosen things up. Added 1.5oz amylase at about 145°F then 3lb 6-row barley malt at 140°F. It's turned into a thin sweet soup now... I'll pitch DADY tomorrow morning when it has cooled to pitching temperature. I'll post results and tasting notes after I run it :D

Edit: pitched the DADY tonight... I noticed that the surface of the wash was around 90°F while the rest was around 120°F. I pitched the yeast on top and let it sit... I'm thinking this will let it revive and reproduce on the top cooler layer while the rest is cooling down to the temps where yeast can live.



How is this coming along?

I am really looking forward to finishing my new still and try a batch of this!


Still puttering along... it's winter here(pacific northwest), and the mash is holding aroung 65°F in the shed without added heat, and slowly fermenting. This is probably around the low end of the active range for DADY, so it's going s l o w. I'm going to filter out the chunks today and let it settle for a couple of days, then do the first run if it seems like it's done fermenting. I'll post results whether or not it turns out good...
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby NKT » Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:03 pm

NKT wrote:
eVenom wrote:
NKT wrote:I started up a batch of rice wash for vodka today...

50lb of rice in 20 gallons of boiling water makes a sticky mess... lots of work to break it up... this is more work than corn! Let it steep for a few hours then started adding enzymes a bit at a time to help loosen things up. Added 1.5oz amylase at about 145°F then 3lb 6-row barley malt at 140°F. It's turned into a thin sweet soup now... I'll pitch DADY tomorrow morning when it has cooled to pitching temperature. I'll post results and tasting notes after I run it :D

Edit: pitched the DADY tonight... I noticed that the surface of the wash was around 90°F while the rest was around 120°F. I pitched the yeast on top and let it sit... I'm thinking this will let it revive and reproduce on the top cooler layer while the rest is cooling down to the temps where yeast can live.



How is this coming along?

I am really looking forward to finishing my new still and try a batch of this!

Still puttering along... it's winter here(pacific northwest), and the mash is holding aroung 65°F in the shed without added heat, and slowly fermenting. This is probably around the low end of the active range for DADY, so it's going s l o w. I'm going to filter out the chunks today and let it settle for a couple of days, then do the first run if it seems like it's done fermenting. I'll post results whether or not it turns out good...

Finished filtering tonight. As noted above, this stuff is a pain to separate. I ended up hanging a nylon laundry bag inside one of my 50-gallon fermenters, filling it with about 8 gallons of goop, and let it slowly drain over the next 8 hours or so. Three batches and it's done and settling now. Tested the FG and it is at 0.999... I didn't get an OG reading because the hydrometer doesn't work in a thick porrage. I used about 2lb per gallon, so it should be around 8%. I'll find out in a couple of days when I run it.
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby John Barleycorn » Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:05 am

DAD300 wrote:I've always tried to sieve

That's the only way I do it anymore ... and I do it prior to fermentation. I didn't care much for the other methods. To be honest, I don't care much for ANY method so far ... but unfortunately, it goes hand-in-hand with rice.

I use a big colander. Then the drained rice goes from the colander into a perforated bucket-in-bucket with a fine-mesh screen lining over the holes. By the time I'm done with the colander I'll get maybe another liter or so from the bottom bucket. It's a PITA, but I at least get some aeration out of the ordeal. :roll:
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby NKT » Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:44 pm

NKT wrote:
NKT wrote:
eVenom wrote:
NKT wrote:I started up a batch of rice wash for vodka today...

50lb of rice in 20 gallons of boiling water makes a sticky mess... lots of work to break it up... this is more work than corn! Let it steep for a few hours then started adding enzymes a bit at a time to help loosen things up. Added 1.5oz amylase at about 145°F then 3lb 6-row barley malt at 140°F. It's turned into a thin sweet soup now... I'll pitch DADY tomorrow morning when it has cooled to pitching temperature. I'll post results and tasting notes after I run it :D

Edit: pitched the DADY tonight... I noticed that the surface of the wash was around 90°F while the rest was around 120°F. I pitched the yeast on top and let it sit... I'm thinking this will let it revive and reproduce on the top cooler layer while the rest is cooling down to the temps where yeast can live.



How is this coming along?

I am really looking forward to finishing my new still and try a batch of this!

Still puttering along... it's winter here(pacific northwest), and the mash is holding aroung 65°F in the shed without added heat, and slowly fermenting. This is probably around the low end of the active range for DADY, so it's going s l o w. I'm going to filter out the chunks today and let it settle for a couple of days, then do the first run if it seems like it's done fermenting. I'll post results whether or not it turns out good...

Finished filtering tonight. As noted above, this stuff is a pain to separate. I ended up hanging a nylon laundry bag inside one of my 50-gallon fermenters, filling it with about 8 gallons of goop, and let it slowly drain over the next 8 hours or so. Three batches and it's done and settling now. Tested the FG and it is at 0.999... I didn't get an OG reading because the hydrometer doesn't work in a thick porrage. I used about 2lb per gallon, so it should be around 8%. I'll find out in a couple of days when I run it.

I did the low wines run on the all-grain rice vodka tonight. I ended up with 18 gallons of cleared wash from 50 lb rice and 25 gallons water. Threw out about 200ml foreshots. Distilled 4 gallons of low wines at 80 proof average (that works out to 9% ABV in the wash... not bad for an AG wash!). As noted many times in this thread: no harsh or funky flavors anywhere in the run... just mildly floral in the heads and hearts, and mildly grainy in the late hearts and tails... even the tails were palatable; I sipped on a half shot of the stuff that came off at 70 proof and it was delicious.

cost: I have about $25 in materials and probably $10 in propane after two more runs, for probably about 3.25 gallons at 80 proof after cuts. ...just a little over $2 per fifth ...not too bad for some really nice vodka.
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby DAD300 » Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:41 pm

Very nice...good job.

Stuff is nice isn't it?
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby eVenom » Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:29 am

So you are not going to even re run the low wines?
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Re: Uncle Remus Rice Vodka

Postby NKT » Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:15 am

eVenom wrote:So you are not going to even re run the low wines?

I'm definitely going to run it twice more. I only tossed foreshots on this run; no heads cut and ran it down to about 25% ABV. I'm just sharing tasting notes, not trying to do anything too exotic. I was planning a simple all-grain rice vodka, distilled three times with good cuts on the last run, and I'm going to stick to that plan.
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