Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

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JakeB
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

Post by JakeB »

Ok, so I ran my wash today. For a refresher I followed the recipe except that I substituted 2 packs EC-1118 for the baker's yeast, it fermented out in about 5 days, racked let sit for 7 more, and cold crashed to get a clear wash. I will be trying this again, but with a double batch using baker's yeast, less effort on clearing and using stripping runs so I can compare the result. I had a bias against baker's yeast from doing other neutral washes (reflux with no strip) but on many suggestions am going to try this recipe using baker's yeast with stripping runs next time.

In any case, tffv came out very close to commercial vodka. Others I had done were either too neutral using EC-1118, or had too much sweet yeasty after taste using baker's yeast. I am letting this air out, but I did a taste comparison of the middle hearts jar from this run proofed at 40% directly beside some commercial vodka, and I was stunned how similar they are (the commercial stuff was a bit more headsey). The wheat bran does in fact give it that slight character I was looking for. I expect after airing out for a while, it will be even better. Thanks Tedysad, and to all who gave me suggestions along the way. When I do this again, following the recipe exactly, I will post back with the comparison. Note it will be a while as I have a bunch of other stuff on the go...
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Teddysad
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

Post by Teddysad »

Good Stuff and thanks
You can lead a horse to drink, but you cant make it water!
You can lead a horticulture but can you teach a prototype?

Proverbs 31:6-7
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

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Teddysad wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 8:53 pm Good Stuff and thanks
Teddysad. I love this recipe. I'm curious as to whether you've tried any variations of grain to put in alongside/instead of the wheat bran. I hear of others who have, but I am curious if you have any suggestions?
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

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JakeB wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 5:52 pm less effort on clearing and using stripping runs so I can compare the result. I had a bias against baker's yeast from doing other neutral washes (reflux with no strip) but on many suggestions am going to try this recipe using baker's yeast with stripping runs next time.
If you want a sugar wash to start clearing faster once the fermenting phase is done (.990), at the start add some bentonite clay (1 tsp/3 gal), and once the fermentation is done, degas the wash, and allow the ferment temp to drop (that if one is using a heat belt or insulation)at that point..

As to using bread yeast it's best to pitch and ferment the wash at the 80*F, reducing the yeasty smell and some after flavor vera the higher (90*F) temp commonly used..

And for neutral yes it is best to strip first then do spirit run using a reflux column, giving better control for removal of heads and early tails..

Mars
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Teddysad
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

Post by Teddysad »

Rrmuf wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 5:16 am
Teddysad wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 8:53 pm Good Stuff and thanks
Teddysad. I love this recipe. I'm curious as to whether you've tried any variations of grain to put in alongside/instead of the wheat bran. I hear of others who have, but I am curious if you have any suggestions?
Yes changing 25% of the bran to kibbled rye adds a nice extra dimension
You can lead a horse to drink, but you cant make it water!
You can lead a horticulture but can you teach a prototype?

Proverbs 31:6-7
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Rrmuf
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

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Teddysad wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 4:37 pm
Rrmuf wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 5:16 am
Teddysad wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 8:53 pm Good Stuff and thanks
Teddysad. I love this recipe. I'm curious as to whether you've tried any variations of grain to put in alongside/instead of the wheat bran. I hear of others who have, but I am curious if you have any suggestions?
Yes changing 25% of the bran to kibbled rye adds a nice extra dimension
Thanks..... I will have to figure out what "kibbled" means in Canadian. ;-)
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

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Rrmuf wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 3:19 am
Teddysad wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 4:37 pm
Rrmuf wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 5:16 am
Teddysad wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 8:53 pm Good Stuff and thanks
Teddysad. I love this recipe. I'm curious as to whether you've tried any variations of grain to put in alongside/instead of the wheat bran. I hear of others who have, but I am curious if you have any suggestions?
Yes changing 25% of the bran to kibbled rye adds a nice extra dimension
Thanks..... I will have to figure out what "kibbled" means in Canadian. ;-)
I knew it! They speak differently in Canadia! :D
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

Post by The Baker »

Kibble;

ground meal shaped into pellets

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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

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The Baker wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 5:25 pm Kibble;

ground meal shaped into pellets

Geoff
Thanks. I've never heard of that as a process.
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

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Rrmuf wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 6:24 am
The Baker wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 5:25 pm Kibble;

ground meal shaped into pellets

Geoff
Thanks. I've never heard of that as a process.
If you see breakfast cereals that are sort of lumpy and crunchy that could be it?

Geoff
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

Post by Rrmuf »

I will look for it! Thanks. (We don't eat our Rye here, it just goes into making whiskey. ;-)
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

Post by Sillyentz »

I have had some issues with this recipe.
I didn't follow it exactly as I have a Kg of wine yeast so used 30g of this instead of 50g of baker's yeast, otherwise I did everything else the same, with multivitmain, DAP, etc

My first batch I adjusted pH to 5 as per recipe using 1 and half tsp of citric acid and has been very, very, very slow initial SG was 1080 and at 11 days it is at 1030...
I did a second batch and only used 1 tsp of citric acid and it again has been quite slow with day 5 SG dropping from 1080 initially to 1040.

Is it because I should be using baker's yeast? I assumed wine yeast would be ok? It's not fermenting any quicker than a usual wine kit with 5g of yeast?

Both took off quickly with a thick foamy cap after an hour as described, do you think I have added too much citric acid? I might try the next batch using none and see whether this is any better, I frothed it up with a whisk to introduce lots of O2 at the beginning and started both at 29C.

Thanks for any insight into my blunder!
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

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Sillyentz wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 1:14 am I have had some issues with this recipe.
I didn't follow it exactly as I have a Kg of wine yeast so used 30g of this instead of 50g of baker's yeast, otherwise I did everything else the same, with multivitmain, DAP, etc

My first batch I adjusted pH to 5 as per recipe using 1 and half tsp of citric acid and has been very, very, very slow initial SG was 1080 and at 11 days it is at 1030...
I did a second batch and only used 1 tsp of citric acid and it again has been quite slow with day 5 SG dropping from 1080 initially to 1040.

Is it because I should be using baker's yeast? I assumed wine yeast would be ok? It's not fermenting any quicker than a usual wine kit with 5g of yeast?

Both took off quickly with a thick foamy cap after an hour as described, do you think I have added too much citric acid? I might try the next batch using none and see whether this is any better, I frothed it up with a whisk to introduce lots of O2 at the beginning and started both at 29C.

Thanks for any insight into my blunder!
You started with a much higher OG, with much less yeast and of a different type. If you have a Kg of of yeast on hand, why would you use 20g less than the recipe, especially when it is a different yeast and you are starting at a higher OG?
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

Post by Saltbush Bill »

What sort of yeast is it ? ":wine yeast" doesn't say a lot.....what temp is the wash? To cold and it will work off slow.
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

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To get the results, stick to the recipe. Bakers yeast will take off much faster than many wine yeasts ( that term covered a myriad of yeasts so can’t help there), and stay with recommended sugar levels. Try to start at around 5.0 to 5.5 pH Your water make also make a difference. Sea or egg shells will help buffer against pH drop, which is compounded by long ferment time
You can lead a horse to drink, but you cant make it water!
You can lead a horticulture but can you teach a prototype?

Proverbs 31:6-7
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

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Teddysad wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:41 amSea or egg shells will help buffer against pH drop, which is compounded by long ferment time
That’s the first time I’ve seen egg shells mentioned but it makes sense, they’re all calcium. Is there a recommended dosage?
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

Post by Teddysad »

A couple of spoons full . The wash will take what it needs
You can lead a horse to drink, but you cant make it water!
You can lead a horticulture but can you teach a prototype?

Proverbs 31:6-7
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

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Teddysad wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:27 pm A couple of spoons full . The wash will take what it needs
Eggshells makes sense: Do they require some kind of prep?
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

Post by Teddysad »

A couple of minutes in the microwave takes care of any potential problems.
You can lead a horse to drink, but you cant make it water!
You can lead a horticulture but can you teach a prototype?

Proverbs 31:6-7
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

Post by Sillyentz »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:55 am What sort of yeast is it ? ":wine yeast" doesn't say a lot.....what temp is the wash? To cold and it will work off slow.
It's Vinclasse "Dried Active Yeast" for winemaking and brewing - the actual species of yeast is not specified...

I am making a smaller 5litre batch and using 1/4 of everything but my DAP says to use 5g per 5L so am going to use a whole tsp for this and see how it goes. I will also add the eggshell as someone else recommended, thanks for all your help.

Ned
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

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Teddysad wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:15 am A couple of minutes in the microwave takes care of any potential problems.
:thumbup:

Thanks alot for this recipe! It has been my "go to" for a neutral for a while now!
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

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Sillyentz wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:04 am
Saltbush Bill wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:55 am What sort of yeast is it ? ":wine yeast" doesn't say a lot.....what temp is the wash? To cold and it will work off slow.
It's Vinclasse "Dried Active Yeast" for winemaking and brewing - the actual species of yeast is not specified...

I am making a smaller 5litre batch and using 1/4 of everything but my DAP says to use 5g per 5L so am going to use a whole tsp for this and see how it goes. I will also add the eggshell as someone else recommended, thanks for all your help.

Ned
I think that is a lot of DAP and may affect the taste of your alchohol. I use about a tsp for a 25l batch
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

Post by Teddysad »

If it is food grade DAP (and not a wine nutrient mix with other stuff in it) 1/2 to 1 teaspoon is plenty for a 25l wash
You can lead a horse to drink, but you cant make it water!
You can lead a horticulture but can you teach a prototype?

Proverbs 31:6-7
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

Post by CoogeeBoy »

Hi all,
Has anyone tried using the backset of TTFV as a starter for a second generation TTFV?
The reason I am asking is:
I was wondering if all the sugars in the wheat bran have been converted out (I don't have iodine to test)
I have harvested yeast in the past but figured if there was anything left in the wheat I could simply use the backset as a starter for the next wash.

Any thoughts or am I just wasting my (and your) time?
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

Post by Teddysad »

The wheat bran has very little starch, there is no enzymatic action and hence no sugars come from it. However there is still plenty of active yeast and nutrient so addition of more sugar and water will kick it back to life. Watch the pH however. the resultant product tends to have a muddier taste and not as clean and crisp as the original.
You can lead a horse to drink, but you cant make it water!
You can lead a horticulture but can you teach a prototype?

Proverbs 31:6-7
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

Post by CoogeeBoy »

Teddysad wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:37 pm The wheat bran has very little starch, there is no enzymatic action and hence no sugars come from it. However there is still plenty of active yeast and nutrient so addition of more sugar and water will kick it back to life. Watch the pH however. the resultant product tends to have a muddier taste and not as clean and crisp as the original.
Great and thank you!
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

Post by Loco1 »

Hi all.
Been distilling for about 4 years. Progressed from turbo to birdwatchers, big improvement.
The last couple of washes took excessive time to finish (4-6 weeks), and the last one would not drop below a FG of 1.020.
I stirred it, several times, I repitched yeast, to no avail.
So I tries Ted's exactly as stated,but this one also took about 3-4 weeks to finish.
I am using a temp control fridge set at 28 degree.
Advise appreciated.

Cheers
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

Post by CoogeeBoy »

Loco1 wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:34 pm Hi all.
Been distilling for about 4 years. Progressed from turbo to birdwatchers, big improvement.
The last couple of washes took excessive time to finish (4-6 weeks), and the last one would not drop below a FG of 1.020.
I stirred it, several times, I repitched yeast, to no avail.
So I tries Ted's exactly as stated,but this one also took about 3-4 weeks to finish.
I am using a temp control fridge set at 28 degree.
Advise appreciated.

Cheers
You are not alone, there have been others that can't get it to ferment out in that 1 week timeframe (including me!) so don't stress about it.

Assuming you are using bakers yeast and that everything started out ok. if not, make sure your temp range is right for the type of yeast you are using.

The one thing you haven't mentioned is the pH so check that, if too low your ferment will stall (oyster shells are the preferred method for buffering the pH).
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

Post by Rrmuf »

Loco1 wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 11:34 pm Hi all.
Been distilling for about 4 years. Progressed from turbo to birdwatchers, big improvement.
The last couple of washes took excessive time to finish (4-6 weeks), and the last one would not drop below a FG of 1.020.
I stirred it, several times, I repitched yeast, to no avail.
So I tries Ted's exactly as stated,but this one also took about 3-4 weeks to finish.
I am using a temp control fridge set at 28 degree.
Advise appreciated.

Cheers
I've made 25 batches of TFFV and it gets to .993 within 6 days 100% of the time so there is something wrong here:

I am curious about the temp control fridge: Is it sealed like a normal fridge? TFFV has a huge CO2 exhale.

The only other comment is I keep it at 26C-27C but one degree shouldnt make that big a difference but it is getting close to 30C.
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Re: Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

Post by Corsaire »

Same pack of yeast in all instances?
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