Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

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WillC
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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by WillC » Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:01 pm

All the molasses i can find around here contains sodium benzoate ( a preservative).
Will it still ferment?

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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by DavidWatkins » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:59 pm

WITco wrote:1. I followed Pugi's recipe but i didnt have epsom salt, fertilizer, or the vitamin B, i did have Fermax so i used that with the directed amounts from the package.

2. I used Grade A molasses so i did not clarify it. Is this ok?

3. When i rehydrated the yeast (Red Star Bakers yeast ) I split it in half and poured water into the first half and within 10 min it looked like bread dough, so i threw that in the carboy and didnt rehydrate the second half. ( just threw it in dry).

Can anyone please help on where i went wrong?
From what I can tell, you've got some fermentation, just not very fast. You've either got no oxygen in your wash for the aerobic phase of yeast life (where they multiply like rabbits until you've got billions of them) or you're slow because you don't have the yeast bomb. Possibly both.

Having made a batch of Pugirum before, and tried recipes of other rums as well, I have to say that the yeast bomb is absolutely, 100%, no-denying-it the reason it ferments so fast. If you've got no Fertilizer, no vitamins, and no epsom, you don't have the yeast bomb and you won't get the explosive ferment. A pure molasses wash that has plenty of aeration ferments quickly, but Pugi's yeast bomb cuts that time in half for me.

So, grab a couple vitamins, whatever fertilizer you have handy (even miracle grow is better than nothing!) and spend a buck fifty at your local drug store to get a box of epsom. While you're doing that, get some AIR into that rum! Yeast need oxygen to reproduce in the first part of their life cycle, so make sure they get it. Stick a (clean) paint mixer on your power drill and aerate the shit out of your wash. Or if you can't do that, siphon a bit out of your carboy, stick a bung in it and roll the carboy across the floor for an hour or two. Ever made coffee can ice cream? Yeah, do that.

--------------------------------OR--------------------------

The other option is to walk away and don't mess with it. Slow ferments happen and some times you just have to wait. Especially in high gravity ferments, three weeks to a month is not unheard of for a ferment to complete. Most of the time (assuming proper nutrition and aeration) slow ferments are caused by your yeast strain not liking the conditions it finds itself in. Come back later and check to make sure it still bubbles from time to time. It'll get done eventually.
WillC wrote:All the molasses i can find around here contains sodium benzoate ( a preservative).
Will it still ferment?
In my experience that depends on the amount of benzoate in your molasses. I've fermented grocery store molasses that had benzoate in it before, but it ran slower and I've had some that wouldn't ferment at all until I added more water and white sugar. Buy a very small amount and test it. An empty soda bottle, a few spoonfuls of molasses and a pinch of yeast will give you a more definitive answer than anyone here can really promise. Worst case, you've wasted a few dollars and have a cup or two of molasses that you can use to make homemade bbq sauce.

When it comes to preservatives to avoid, the two Sorbates are the two worst offenders when it comes to completely shutting down fermentation. Sodium or Potassium Sorbate are used by wineries the world over to stop a ferment cold when they want residual sweetness in their wines.
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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by Dnderhead » Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:26 am

""Sodium or Potassium Sorbate are used by wineries the world over to stop a ferment cold when they want residual sweetness """

They What????????????
sorbate does not stop a ferment. it prevents yeast from multiplying.

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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by DavidWatkins » Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:02 am

Well, never let it be said I can't admit when I am wrong, I was wrong there. :oops:

I was typing from memory and was incorrect. Metabisulfite kills yeast, and THEN they add the Sorbate to prevent any surviving yeast from restarting the ferment.

Either way, avoid fermentables that have Sorbate in them, they won't reliably ferment.
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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by Greg1234 » Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:44 am

Hi there, I tried this rum recipe and must say I am happy with results I am now on second gen. But when I set it up the violent foaming never happened like before on first I almost thought that fermentation is not starting at all but I was so wrong. Because I add some oil to the wash before strip run and added around 30% backset/Dunder to the new wash some oil was still present on the top of the wash. Is that normal or I just added too much oil during stripping run ? It definitely did it job, no puking foaming during boiling and if this will not change taste of the wash I might add even little oil to the wash as anti foaming agent. Am I on the right path or completely wrong ?

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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by pistachio_nut » Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:34 am

This was my first attempt at a spirit run on the pugirum recipe. I had a two gallons of rum oils to add to my 11 gallon run. I kept it slow and low, started collecting at 75% and went down through 45%. I wound up with no less than six quarts of clean, dry rum. Averaged out it would be about 120 proof at a gallon and a half. Right off the still it's very good. It's got a smoky, cotton candy taste to it. I LOVE it. The only change I made to the recipe is I used white sugar instead of brown due to financial pressure. This is some top-shelf booze. I'm done with whiskey, rum is what I like.

Not to bag on whiskey. I'm sure there are legions of whiskey drinkers who will look down their nose at me, and that's just fine. I simply have a preference.

Next is to age it appropriately and nurture it to its full potential.

This is the booze I've been looking for. Amazingly good. Lip smackin' good. Oh, this is some good stuff. Thank you!
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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by WillC » Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:37 am

I called around and all the feed stores had molasses with preservatives in it.
So i went with pure unsulfured black strap. I clarified it and let it settle. I put the Epsom salt and b-complex vitamins in it. I couldnt find the fertilizer except in large quantities. So i ordered some yeast nutrient http://www.midwestsupplies.com/yeast-nutrient.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
and will add that when it arrives.
I have made the sweetfeed before and it didnt taste all that good so i have hopes for this.
I have made plenty of Uncle Jessies corn licker so im looking to try something new.
I just pitched the yeast.
I have a submersible aquarium heater set on 80 in it.
I am doing 5 gallon washes.

Will there be alot of residual molasses left on the inside of my boiler? I am assuming boiling it out will clean it.

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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by TOAD » Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:54 am

Made up a batch of this about 4 days ago without the yeast bomb. Just sweet feed molasses , brown sugar, water and yeast. Fermentation was good and has slowed to a crawl. I didn't take any readings (I have a bad habit of breaking hydrometers) and because I normaly make beer and wine this way, I gave it a taste. Sugar seams to be almost all gone but it tastes like someone tried to set a garden hose on fire. Is this favor normal?? I'm afraid something went horribly wrong
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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by Tater » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:00 am

TOAD wrote:Made up a batch of this about 4 days ago without the yeast bomb. Just sweet feed molasses , brown sugar, water and yeast. Fermentation was good and has slowed to a crawl. I didn't take any readings (I have a bad habit of breaking hydrometers) and because I normaly make beer and wine this way, I gave it a taste. Sugar seams to be almost all gone but it tastes like someone tried to set a garden hose on fire. Is this favor normal?? I'm afraid something went horribly wrong
Can taste strong .suggest ya run it and let us know the outcome.
I use a pot still.Sometimes with a thumper

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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by marshrunner757 » Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:36 pm

Has anyone tried triple crown feed molasses? Not sure if it contains preservatives or not.

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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by TOAD » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:24 am

i want to know if i can run all 9 gal. of this wash through my 15.5 keg still (1gal. left behind as trube) on the stripping run or should i split it up. i would like to do it in one run. its just a keg with a cork and a copper coil. i plan to run it tonight and post pics tomorrow
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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by marshrunner757 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:28 am

Not sure with that setup. I typically run 10 gallons in mine but I do have a 48" column.

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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by yankeeclear » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:39 am

TOAD wrote:i want to know if i can run all 9 gal. of this wash through my 15.5 keg still (1gal. left behind as trube) on the stripping run or should i split it up. i would like to do it in one run. its just a keg with a cork and a copper coil. i plan to run it tonight and post pics tomorrow

Don't see why you couldn't do a single run as long as you can cool it sufficiently. 4/5 gals in a 15 gal boiler would leave a lot of headroom.
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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by TOAD » Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:05 pm

yea i usually do 6 gal runs in it with the heads and tails of the last run.(weather or not the last run was of the same recipe as the new wash) all that head room seems to give a higher proof. i toss out a lot of heads with the foreshots, so I'm not worried about a methanol buildup.
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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by Dnderhead » Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:11 pm

""i toss out a lot of heads with the foreshots, so I'm not worried about a methanol buildup.""
why you distilling wood?

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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by TOAD » Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:45 pm

I just dont see a point in keeping the first jar of heads. This is only my 4th time stilling and i would rather error on the side of caution. How far down do you collect on your striping run?
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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by yankeeclear » Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:56 pm

TOAD wrote:I just dont see a point in keeping the first jar of heads. This is only my 3rd time stilling and i would rather error on the side of caution. How far down do you collect on your striping run?
I agree with you. I am extremely conservative on cuts and put all my heads to solvent/fire-starter/fire-source. I only keep late heads and tails for my feins.

I collect down to ~20-15% on my stripping runs. I've heard some pushing it to 10% (or lower), but I don't think it is worth the energy to push it any further than that.
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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by TOAD » Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:01 pm

foreshots just started, thanks for the fast reply! :ebiggrin:

uh oh... why dose my distillate look like weak tea? normaly its crystal clear
Last edited by TOAD on Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. Lamb Of God

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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by Dnderhead » Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:07 pm

i take out fores but not because of methanol,,,that along with other "poisons" comes from the prohibition,,and was placed there by the government to denature and as a deterrent.similar as they sprayed marijuana fields in the 70s?.if you want to fiend out where its going its easy , you just poison the "product" then you just sit back and follow the trail of dead and disabled..

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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by frozenthunderbolt » Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:32 pm

TOAD wrote:foreshots just started, thanks for the fast reply! :ebiggrin:

uh oh... why dose my distillate look like weak tea? normaly its crystal clear
Assming you are stilling rum - it had boiled up a bit high and is being carried over - known as 'puking' round here
Where has all the rum gone? . . .

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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by TOAD » Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:45 am

He said "force the flavor over" and i sure did that, stripping run looked like coffee. Backed it down for the last 1/2 and cleaned out my worm. Went ahead and made the spirit run and there are now (24) 8oz. jars airing out on my porch. There's a cold slow wind bringing the most pleasant smell of rum back in through the screen door. Rum oils dunder and trube have all been set aside for the next batch. Will blend tomorrow and set it on toasted oak.

edited- toasted oak, vanilla beans, cloves, nutmeg, cinnamon, brown sugar, and dried cranberries, in whatever amounts i happen to feel like at the moment
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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by kobold » Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:12 am

i am getting a bit puzzled. in most rum wash recipes recycling of lees/dunder is limited to 25-30% of total wash volume.
i was following this rule for the first two generations but for the 4th gen i was already using about 50% and now at gen 7 i recycled something like 75% into my new rum wash and it started bubbling anyway in a day. i am curious how far can i push this. for more taste. i am also happy with my yields and flavours so far.
my water is very soft, i never measured or corrected my pH, i don't really use yeast nutes and i don't make any efforts to aerate the wash. i use a heater belt and the wash is usually in the 28-30C range. i always pitch two or three tablespoons of fresh bakers yeast, but also take care of the old yeast cake in the bottom. the first five generations were molasses with raw sugar most of the time targeting 14% abv, after that i switched to sucanat aiming for a more humane 10% abv wash. my ferments are never explosive but long and steady. have no complaints, just surprised.

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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by frozenthunderbolt » Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:01 am

I've done up to 100% dunder - had to correct PH on that one to get it to work out, and a little corretion on the gens after that one about 50% is optimal if you like a heavy rum (in my opinion at least) it will need minor ph correction from time to time but not evey generation.
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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by GhostfaceStillah » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:46 pm

A couple of questions about the yeast bomb and the recipe.

1) Has anybody tried the bomb in neutral spirits? For instance, substituting the yeast bomb for tomato paste in birdwatcher's recipe? It seems like the bomb is basically a homemade turbo yeast/nutrient. I am wondering if it will impart similar strange flavors to a neutral as turbos often do.

2) I see a lot of discussion about how well it works in low temps. But does anybody have any experience at higher ferment temps? I am in TX, so in the summer we often find ourselves fermenting at 90-100F.

3) What kind of ABVs in the wash are people attaining with this recipe? Has anybody increased sugar amounts to try to push it a little more?

Thanks in advance for the insights.

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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by marshrunner757 » Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:52 pm

I'll be doing a stripping run this weekend using molasses straight from the sugar mill. Can't wait for the spirit run. The wash smells like heaven.

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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by rad14701 » Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:53 pm

GhostfaceStillah wrote:A couple of questions about the yeast bomb and the recipe.

1) Has anybody tried the bomb in neutral spirits? For instance, substituting the yeast bomb for tomato paste in birdwatcher's recipe? It seems like the bomb is basically a homemade turbo yeast/nutrient. I am wondering if it will impart similar strange flavors to a neutral as turbos often do.

2) I see a lot of discussion about how well it works in low temps. But does anybody have any experience at higher ferment temps? I am in TX, so in the summer we often find ourselves fermenting at 90-100F.

3) What kind of ABVs in the wash are people attaining with this recipe? Has anybody increased sugar amounts to try to push it a little more?

Thanks in advance for the insights.
I have used yeast bombs in several sugar washes and they do work but it really isn't necessary... I can get 3 day ferments to 12% - 14% without a yeast bomb...

High temperatures are a washes enemy and using a yeast bomb generates a lot of heat so using them in hot weather would increase the possibility of stressing the yeast to the point of off smells and flavors or killing the yeast colony...

I would not suggest pushing a rum wash overly high for the reason previously mentioned... Molasses washes tend to generate plenty of heat all by themselves, without a yeast bomb...

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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by TOAD » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:53 am

its been 10 days and im having difficulty staying away from the rum. It has been sitting on toasted oak and various spices at full strength. Taste is nothing like any rum i have ever tried (good with cherry pepsi) as i type this i feel i need another taste, straight up. ... (drinking)... its so .. unpleasant and satisfying at the same time. the nose is harsh but the tongue is silk and there's no real bite. the one thing i can say is, if this was a product on the shelf, i would have a hard time choosing a bottle of this or my usual drink.

i fully intend to make this again after deer season when the local hunting store puts the sweetfeed molasses on sale
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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by magnetic_tarantula » Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:37 pm

I am curious if anyone can help with a couple questions. I made the "BastardPugiRum" as it appears to be referred to as I couldn't find Molasses for an acceptable price.

Made the yeast bomb, and used 12.5lb's of golden brown sugar. I made 2 batches. The fuckin ants in my area get any brown sugar that is left out. I got a 25lb bag for 13bux and wanted to used it all so made a double batch.

1st Batch made the basic recipe:
start with 5 kilos of Golden Brown sugar (approx 12lbs) (cane sugar is preferable)
dump that into your fermenter

dump your yeast bomb on top and stir to start disolving your sugar, break up lumps.
add approx 4 gallons of hot tap water, stir to finish disolving sugar.
top up to 10 gallons with cold water, stir
sprinkle 1 cup bakers yeast on top. will begin fermenting very quickly.

I got an OG of 1.053, is this high/low or just right? Just want to know as this is my first attempt at this recipe.

2nd batch followed the same but only put in 9gallons total and got an OG of 1.058, same question high/low or just right?

We'll see how many times I can run through this recipe, I like the sound of each generation getting better.

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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by marshrunner757 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:13 am

Seems low to me. I typically push my og up around 1.09. It'll make, just won't get much out of it.

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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by magnetic_tarantula » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:39 am

It seems low to you from what you make? Or from what I put it?

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