Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by marshrunner757 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:43 am

No. From what I make. I do the pugi rum. For volume purposes, I would bump it up some if I were you. Just my opinion. There are much more highly skilled people here that may have different views.

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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by magnetic_tarantula » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:43 am

That's cool, its always good to know what direction to head from your starting point. Any ideas on what doubling the brown sugar without changing the volume of water will do to my OG? While BS is relatively cheap I still don't want to waste it.

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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by marshrunner757 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:57 pm

If you just pitched yeast, I would think you could invert your sugar in a small amount of water, allow it to cool and add.

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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by magnetic_tarantula » Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:30 pm

How long can the bottle go with just being covered by a coffee filter?

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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by marshrunner757 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:47 am

Need some answers. Been making rum for a while. Just trying the whole thing about leaving the yeast bed and pouring back into it for the next wash. First time I did it, the ferment stalled and I had to start with a fresh batch. This time, it kicked off, and is pretty much complete but has a bad smell. Doesn't have the molasses/alcohol smell. Rather a somewhat soured smell. Not real sour but an off smell. Took less than 36 hours to finish but just don't smell right to me. Any ideas?

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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by Durace11 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:52 am

Could be infected and could just be getting soured from reuse. It's really hard to tell unless we can see/smell it. Best advice I can give is if it's done, run it & don't reuse the same yeast bed. Were you reusing the dunder from a previous run? If yes, were you boiling it first or just dumping it in? How many generations are you on with this batch? Was this the ferment that stalled and restarted? Full recipe for this batch?
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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by marshrunner757 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:39 am

Pugi's recipe. Didn't use any dunder this round and only the first reuse of the yeast bed. SG was 1.09 and it was at 1.02 last night.

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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by jaycap1030 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:11 pm

after stripping your fermented wash you say to make the wash again and add your left over dunder and rum oil but do you let the second wash ferment or add no yeast but whats left in the fermenter and strip right away? that part confused me a little bit

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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by bcboyz86 » Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:53 pm

Wow...24 pages of reading while I'm laid up with a cold. It's a lot to digest, but if I'm right I think I got it down. So you start out with the recipie and ferment it out in about 4 days; rack off everything except for the yeast cake that settled at the bottom. Strip the wash that you pull off and the dunder that's left in the still you add back to the yeast in the fermenter along with new sugars and nutrients and then top it off with water. But don't add any more yeast? Or use the yeast bomb the first time and every time after that just sprinkle some more yeast if it doesn't take off soon enough? Then after stripping a bunch of washes go ahead and run a spirit run with all the rum oils from each stripping run? So it might take about a month to get 4gens down and a load of good stuff stocked up? But I guess somethings don't seem to add up. If you keep adding yeast every gen, it seems logical to think the wash would become full of yeast after a while, or do you just add the yeast bomb on the first run and hopefully the same yeast keeps for all the future washes? Or could you just add sugar and new yeast to the dunder you pull out of the still? Maybe even just add the sugar to the boiling dunder all at the same time? I also read something about boiling the dunder, is that a good idea? I mean youve pulled out most of the alcohol, so does boiling it just ensure you don't get an infection in the wash ruining the progress? And would I be more beneficial to do more 5gal. Runs then say get a 20gal container and do it that way? Then with every 5gal I strip just keep the dunder from each and use it for the next big wash? The only down side is I'm not using a bunch of different generations of rum, but I'm still getting all the rum oils. And it should go alot faster. Or is that method just trading time it takes to make all the gens for a quicker turn around?
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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by bcboyz86 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:12 pm

So I ran my first 5gal wash as fast as I could without it boiling and making a huge mess and ended up with 13 pints of stuff down to about 20%ish. First 150ml of fores, 2pints of heads, 3-9 of hearts?, two pints had film on top...guessing those are tails, then from 40%ish-20%ish they smelled a lot better and no film on top. Those last 3 are rum oils right? And the next batch is already going so when I run that one throw in the rum oils too and run it as fast as I can again untill there's enough good amount of distillate to make a slow run? Lime say 3 gallons of good stuff and add water to make 5 then run it slow? Or since I can't run mine really fast anyway just use it as I get it? Then just keep adding rum oils every new one from the one before and all the dunder keep rolling over too? Or does doing it in big amounts help that much to make a better tasting likker?
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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by bcboyz86 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:01 pm

So I was curious about the smell that the product should have... :| it kinda smells like burnt something. Possibly burnt sugar and a touch of nuttyness too. Is this a normal smell for just a 2day air out time? Or should I do a few more stripping type runs and then re-distill the whole lot? Maybe I will keep a pint and try to figure out how much of the ingredients I would have to downsize to only spice a single pint. Could it have a burnt smell from running it fast and on the hot side? Possibly burning some of the molasses in the wash and giving the off smell?
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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by bcboyz86 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:05 am

I have a question for some people... I have a propane burner for now because it was free and handy, but want to switch to electric and am caught between a cast iron hotplate, or an induction with transfer plate so it works with my boiler. I will only be able to use it with my 23L pot boiler and not with a keg because of how its configured. But what do most people use? I'm kinda worried about the weight on the hotplate because it will probably be close to 60lbs sitting right on top of it unless I build a support stand somehow. And if someone uses an electric hotplate and likes it, which one do you use? Thanks!
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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by Wasserwerks » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:54 pm

bcboyz86 wrote:I have a question for some people... I have a propane burner for now because it was free and handy, but want to switch to electric and am caught between a cast iron hotplate, or an induction with transfer plate so it works with my boiler. I will only be able to use it with my 23L pot boiler and not with a keg because of how its configured. But what do most people use? I'm kinda worried about the weight on the hotplate because it will probably be close to 60lbs sitting right on top of it unless I build a support stand somehow. And if someone uses an electric hotplate and likes it, which one do you use? Thanks!
I picked up a 1300W Waring cast plate single burner from Amazon for under $50. I'm running a 8qt pot still for now but plan to upgrade to keg style later. I had thought about an induction plate, but this one looks like it will hold the weight better.
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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by Wasserwerks » Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:01 pm

bcboyz86 wrote:So I ran my first 5gal wash as fast as I could without it boiling and making a huge mess and ended up with 13 pints of stuff down to about 20%ish. First 150ml of fores, 2pints of heads, 3-9 of hearts?, two pints had film on top...guessing those are tails, then from 40%ish-20%ish they smelled a lot better and no film on top. Those last 3 are rum oils right? And the next batch is already going so when I run that one throw in the rum oils too and run it as fast as I can again untill there's enough good amount of distillate to make a slow run? Lime say 3 gallons of good stuff and add water to make 5 then run it slow? Or since I can't run mine really fast anyway just use it as I get it? Then just keep adding rum oils every new one from the one before and all the dunder keep rolling over too? Or does doing it in big amounts help that much to make a better tasting likker?
Good thing I read into this thread more....... Rum oils rum oils rum oils.... Looks like I will be treating my first rum wash a bit different than my brandy runs.
Here is my question towards the thread.... I've started a 6gal rum wash, which includes 24oz molasses, about 15lbs white sugar, ec1118, and enough nutrient. I have a 8qt. potstill, should I treat each distillation run separately ditching the foreshots etc, or should I distill and save everything for a second distillation? This is going to get tricky with these oils.... :roll:

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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by bcboyz86 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:27 pm

Wow...that's ganna take a looooong time. I personally would just strip it all then run I it slow... Maybe toss out the first 50ml from every run so it would be like doing 150ml over the course of the whole thing(8x3=24 er about 5gal.) I personally toss the first 150ml from a five gallon wash with my still. Might be too conservative, but 30ml is about a shot. So tossing 5 shots of forsure bad booze seems like a minimal sacrifice when ya pull off 1.5 gallons wich is like 180something oz's. So a whopping 2% of sacrifice to save a headache. BUT that's just my personal opinion, might not be the best way to go about it...but stripping and then running the stripped slowly sounds easier/would end up with better stuff...
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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by rad14701 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:47 pm

Wasserwerks wrote:Here is my question towards the thread.... I've started a 6gal rum wash, which includes 24oz molasses, about 15lbs white sugar, ec1118, and enough nutrient. I have a 8qt. potstill, should I treat each distillation run separately ditching the foreshots etc, or should I distill and save everything for a second distillation? This is going to get tricky with these oils....
16 pounds of sugar in a 6 gallon wash has a potential yield of ~19% ABV which is way too high if you want quality, not quantity... Yuck...!!!

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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by Wasserwerks » Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:02 am

@bcboyz86: yes I know, it does take a while. I've been doing small batches so far, just to get the fundamental practices....hey, I'm still a noob. ;) I might just do the stripping runs and then a final run. Your advice sounds good.

@rad14701: I measured the mix with a hydrometer, it came out to be a 15% mix. It was less than 15lbs sugar ;)

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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by frozenthunderbolt » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:22 pm

Wasserwerks wrote:@bcboyz86: yes I know, it does take a while. I've been doing small batches so far, just to get the fundamental practices....hey, I'm still a noob. ;) I might just do the stripping runs and then a final run. Your advice sounds good.

@rad14701: I measured the mix with a hydrometer, it came out to be a 15% mix. It was less than 15lbs sugar ;)

Thanks guys!
Wasser - shoot for 10-12% and you'll get better taste, and more useable product after cuts as your wash/mash will produce less heads as the yeast will be less stressed - this is particularly important with a rum wash as the suspended solids in the molasses increase the overall osmotic pressure on the yeast over and above what the sugar content alone does; this leads to higher yeast stress at the same SG as compared to a sugar neutral or grain mash :egeek:
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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by bcboyz86 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:25 pm

So I did my first "to the T" ferment of some PugiRum and when it says leave a lot of head room, I was underestimating that apparently... I didn't know I needed to leave about a foot from the top open! Within the first couple minutes it was foaming like crazy and then the airlock just started to whistle....no bubbles, just a steady stream of gas coming off and t&ere was foam all the way to the airlock I had to keep rocking it back and forth to knock bubbles down for about 15min.... Which brings me to a SG question. My SG is 1.116 on one and 1.110 on the other 5gal jug(split the recipie into 2 5gal jugs) it says 1gal of molasses, 2lbs of brown sugar, and the yeast stuff. My molasses has about 3584grams of sugar in it. Seems to qualify for fancy molasses to me... And its only $11/gallon! But I'm thinking there's too much sugar in my wash.... Should I cut the brown sugar out, or try to get some blackstrap and mix them half and half with? The ABV is at like 15-18% potential... Too much... :( but it does smell pretty darn tasty! Kinda wondering if it will just take longer to ferment out, or if there will just be a lot of fermentables in the wash after the booze kills the bakers yeast :/ any suggestions for me?
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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by bcboyz86 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:21 am

I had kinda a light bulb moment earlier.... When you take out the rum oils your just going down to like 20% ABV...but aren't you using all the dunder for your next wash? So if you didn't get the rum oils out and used the dunder, wouldn't you be essentially using the rum oils that are still in the dunder? So instead of taking them out and adding them in later...just leave them in and never take them out? Would this work/save some time on the still?
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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by Barney Fife » Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:30 am

had kinda a light bulb moment earlier.... When you take out the rum oils your just going down to like 20% ABV...but aren't you using all the dunder for your next wash? So if you didn't get the rum oils out and used the dunder, wouldn't you be essentially using the rum oils that are still in the dunder? So instead of taking them out and adding them in later...just leave them in and never take them out?

Damned good question! Suppose we -could- stop collecting at 40% and then the oils are all left in the dunder. Problem is, we don't re-use all the dunder, with every new wash, because it'll get too acidic to ferment. But I -do- use all the dunder from my initial 5 gallon rum strip and then split that off into two 5 gallon rum washes, so I should be stopping at 40% and leaving all the oils in there. I also re-use all the dunder for at least the next generation, so there again, I can leave the oils in the boiler. I believe you've just saved this long time rum maker some serious time and energy...! Unless someone pokes a hole in the theory here?

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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by Wasserwerks » Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:43 am

My question at this point would be where these oils actually exist. Say if I do stripping runs, I should collect everything down to oh, say 10%abv, just to reuse in the final run. Then take the foreshots etc out, collect the heart (as per usual) and start saving the tailings. I think that these oils would be more pronounced towards the end run of the tails. Since I already know what the hearts are, I should start separating (making the cuts) every 100ml or so. The way I am understanding this is that the cuts with the oils are put back in with the heart. Right?
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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by Barney Fife » Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:54 am

The gist of Pugi's method is that we remove the heads and tails from every strip, but save the oils and hearts, then put all the accumulated oils and hearts together for the spirit run. I had questioned the method because I just kept getting more and more oils, and they didn't seem to incorporate themselves into the final product during the spirit run, because I still appeared to have the same amount of run oils -after- the spirit run. But there always IS something different, and rather tasty, about the rums I've made using his method, so I do at least one "Pugirum" yearly. But I would do many more Pugirums if we can stop wasting energy and time and just leave the damned oils in the dunder, where they should continue to accumulate at the same rate, and we would only need to separate them on the final strip, to be used in the spirit run, or if your boiler's large enough, add the low wines(hearts) to the final dunder(after the final strip) and do the spirit run right then and there, with all the oils(and hearts, but no heads or tails).

Worth a shot, I think.

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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by LWTCS » Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:54 pm

Barney Fife wrote:The gist of Pugi's method is that we remove the heads and tails from every strip, but save the oils and hearts, then put all the accumulated oils and hearts together for the spirit run. I had questioned the method because I just kept getting more and more oils, and they didn't seem to incorporate themselves into the final product during the spirit run, because I still appeared to have the same amount of run oils -after- the spirit run. But there always IS something different, and rather tasty, about the rums I've made using his method, so I do at least one "Pugirum" yearly. But I would do many more Pugirums if we can stop wasting energy and time and just leave the damned oils in the dunder, where they should continue to accumulate at the same rate, and we would only need to separate them on the final strip, to be used in the spirit run, or if your boiler's large enough, add the low wines(hearts) to the final dunder(after the final strip) and do the spirit run right then and there, with all the oils(and hearts, but no heads or tails).

Worth a shot, I think.
I like it Barney :thumbup:
I would also say that diluting down your final boiler charge with dunder and let it set for a spell or two and let it get good and married prior to running.
I bet would be a nice final product,,,,with a nice long reflux period on a plated column. Make a small heads cut just to dot your I's and cross your T's, Then run it like a wildman with lots of power and lots of reflux.
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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by Barney Fife » Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:25 pm

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more it makes sense. I like your suggestion of letting the hearts marry with the dunder before the spirit run, too.

We still need to make a big heads and tails cut, because despite leaving them out from the strip runs, we run the strips hard enough to get a lot of smearing in the saved hearts. If there's a "secret" to good rum(and whiskey, for that matter) is to not make it too clean. It needs to be just dirty enough....

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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by frozenthunderbolt » Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:30 pm

Barney Fife wrote:I like your suggestion of letting the hearts marry with the dunder before the spirit run, too.
I'm in two minds about this part.
1. brilliant flavour cary through sounds great - infusing/maccerating in effect
2. you would need to boil/pasturise the dunder you were going to add first (assuming a days long association before distilling) so that none of the microbes in the otherwise live dunder could start to potentialy eat your alcohol. (on the third hand maybe they would only attack heads and tails! who knows?)
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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by Barney Fife » Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:05 pm

Ain't no microbes gonna live long enough in a 30/40% abv environment to cause us any trouble.....

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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by bcboyz86 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:21 pm

Whooops, not supposed to use all the dunder? Maybe I've been doing it wrong then, but I usually get almost 2 gallons of distillate out of my 5 gallon washes from the fores down to 20% rum oils, so when it cools down a bit I throw all the dunder in my 5gal fermenter along with the gallon of fancy molasses and the 2lbs of brown sugar to help with dissolving, then throw in the yeast. Then top it off with just how much water I need to fill it up the rest of the way. And if its an issue with acidity, what about tossing in come valium tabs (or whatever basic element you like) to bring down the ph. It just kinda occured to me while I was doing the stripping runs because I felt like that extra 10-20min could be better used on a run than tryin to get out rum oils. Plus I had a batch that erupted at about halfway through the tails and I saved the dunder to run later to get the oils out when the thought occured to me to just leave them in. (which by the way, using a bit of olive oil to keep the wash from looking like a grade school vinegar/baking soda volcanoe worked incredibly well...) I ran 5gallons when I started Spiderman 3 in the garage and I was done before Spiderman saved the day...
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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by bcboyz86 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:24 pm

...just read what I wrote and I ment to say "some calcium tabs"... Not valuim tabs... Not quite sure what you would get with valium tabs, but it sure sounds calming.... :roll: maybe someone could try to brew up some "relaxing-rum"....
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Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Post by magnetic_tarantula » Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:07 pm

Have an extra glass, neat. You'll be horizontal and drooling before you know it.

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