Page 2 of 18

Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:05 pm
by Rummeriffic
Awesome Pugi, thanks for the recipe. I'll be using this on my next go round. My rums have good to great flavor, but they're lacking in body. Looks like you might be on to something here.

Rummer

Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:26 am
by Rummeriffic
Snip < ...
PUGIDOGS wrote:Pugirum:
Strip this as fast as the still can go and I mean FAST. We are forcing the flavors through.

Make the wash again and pour on to the yeast left in the fermenter. Then strip again. Add the 2 stripped washes into still with equal amount of dunder that you have saved and the RUM OILS( see below )
Enjoy, Pugi
Pugi,
A couple questions for you:

What kind of still are you running with, I'm assuming a potstill?

On your stripping runs, how far down (ABV) do you collect?

Rummer

Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:09 pm
by PUGIDOGS
Rummeriffic wrote:Snip < ...
PUGIDOGS wrote:Pugirum:
Strip this as fast as the still can go and I mean FAST. We are forcing the flavors through.

Make the wash again and pour on to the yeast left in the fermenter. Then strip again. Add the 2 stripped washes into still with equal amount of dunder that you have saved and the RUM OILS( see below )
Enjoy, Pugi
Pugi,
A couple questions for you:

What kind of still are you running with, I'm assuming a potstill?

On your stripping runs, how far down (ABV) do you collect?

Rummer

Rummer,

I have done it in my Bokakob and my pot still. With the Bokakob, I do not use packing and run with the valve wide open. I push it as hard as possible, about 1 1/2 gallon an hour on the strip.
The pot still I dont have to push to hard because it goes faster by its nature. Flavor.....Not a whole lot different, The pot still leaves just a tad more flavor but it really depends on how you run them.
I run the strips down to 20 % ABV.....Pugi

Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 1:30 pm
by minime
I used Pugi's recipe and stripped 110 litres using his method. I ended up with 20 liters of 50% ABV. I added the 20 liters of stripped low wines and 15 liters of dunder for the spirit run today(I''d only saved 15 liters of dunder). Anyway after collecting about 1.5 liters of heads I started collecting in 500ml containers starting at about 85%ABV from my pot still. I'm don't like rum so I'm doing this for momma as that's her favorite refreshment. When I got down to 65%ABV I tried a taste of output. I swear it tasted just like candy. I was so impressed with the flavor I had to get momma out to the still to try it.

I collected in total 10 liters from 85% down to 55%. I also collected 1.5 more liters between 55 and 50%. I couldn't really detect any tails in that part but I didn't want to take a chance. At 50% I started to detect tails and collected down to 40% to add to the neutral jar. I then collected another 1.5 liters which took me all the way down to 20%ABV for the rum oils as per Pugi's instructions.

Momma and her good friend will be blending the output sometime this week. I'm very hopeful!

Thankyou, Thankyou, Thankyou Pugi

Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 8:27 pm
by PUGIDOGS
Glad it worked out for you. I do hope momma likes it, you know the old saying....if momma aint happy, no one is happy. Just keep reusing those " rum oils " it will make a good rum into a great rum. Pugi

Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 10:58 am
by partonken
hey pugi! thanks for the info! Ive been trying to re-use my backset and have had limited success. My first wash went like wildfire 2litres blackstrap molasses, 5 tsp dap, 5 lbs white sugar, ec1118 yeast. The second wash i used 100% backset , with the same ingrediants and i re-used the yeast plus i added 1 small tsp of distillers yeast. ph was in the mid 4.5 approx.

the second wash is as slow as molasses, excuse the pun.

first run Started at 1.095 finished at 1.01
second run - started at 1.11 estimated finish at 1.02

if you keep re-using backset your unfermentables are going to start going through the roof, and the wash gets higher
as in my first run it finished at 1.01 so i figure there is .o1 of unfermentables so the next run should finish at 1.02

any comments?

Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 1:56 pm
by minime
minime wrote:I used Pugi's recipe and stripped 110 litres using his method. I ended up with 20 liters of 50% ABV. I added the 20 liters of stripped low wines and 15 liters of dunder for the spirit run today(I''d only saved 15 liters of dunder). Anyway after collecting about 1.5 liters of heads I started collecting in 500ml containers starting at about 85%ABV from my pot still. I'm don't like rum so I'm doing this for momma as that's her favorite refreshment. When I got down to 65%ABV I tried a taste of output. I swear it tasted just like candy. I was so impressed with the flavor I had to get momma out to the still to try it.

I collected in total 10 liters from 85% down to 55%. I also collected 1.5 more liters between 55 and 50%. I couldn't really detect any tails in that part but I didn't want to take a chance. At 50% I started to detect tails and collected down to 40% to add to the neutral jar. I then collected another 1.5 liters which took me all the way down to 20%ABV for the rum oils as per Pugi's instructions.

Momma and her good friend will be blending the output sometime this week. I'm very hopeful!

Thankyou, Thankyou, Thankyou Pugi
Momma finally got around to blending the output today. She didn't use any of the of the 85% (she doesn't like heads flavor at all) and none of 45% that contained the beginning tails. We ended up with 8 liters of 70%abv and have added some pineapple, raisins and peppercorns and some caramelized sugar for color. She tried a shot after dinner and says this should mature into a very good rum. We have the salvaged rum oils for the next spirit run so things should keep getting better.

thanks again for the great recipe Pugi

Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 2:00 pm
by Uncle Jesse
Is this thread a candidate for "tried and true" yet?

Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 6:43 pm
by Tater
I think so been keeping my eye on it waiting for another with similar thoughts.So jessie nominated it Ill second and move it :) .

Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:11 am
by minime
tater wrote:I think so been keeping my eye on it waiting for another with similar thoughts.So jessie nominated it Ill second and move it :) .
Congrats to you Pugi! Your recipe hit the big time :D

Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:30 am
by Barney Fife
I've been making rum for a good while, and had never heard of rum oils until this thread, though I was running pretty well blind, using a 19th century book as my only guide until I found this forum a few months ago. I ran a batch of my usual rum this week, and collected these rum oils. I used to stop collecting at around 45-50% and tossed the rest into my foreshots/heads/tails container, which I use as an all-purpose solvent around the garage. I have never run this stuff back through the still to consume.

So, I now have nearly a liter of rum oils, and I must say, there really was a big difference between the 40-50% distillate and the 20-40% rum oils, which I doubted. I collected in small jars all the way from 50% down to 20, and carefully went through them the following day, checking ABV, and smelling, tasting, etc... Interesting, to say the least. Good on ya Pugi, for cluing us in on this phenomena.

I also tweaked my usual rum recipe, which I'll post after a few more runs using the rum oils, in case I decide to tweak further. My tweak was to invert the sugars by boiling for 40 minutes, with lemon juice, which I had never heard of doing before this forum, also. A bit of a bother, but it did seem to ferment a bit quicker, and ended a bit cleaner.

Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:34 am
by PUGIDOGS
Thanx all for doing this. I think it is pretty cool. Sorry for the late post I was on vacation in Mexico. I have a few more tricks up my sleeve that I have been working on and hope one other will make it on the tried and true. As soon as I can get a few kinks worked out I will post the recipe....Pugi :D

Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:38 pm
by mikeac
PUGIDOGS wrote:Thanx all for doing this. I think it is pretty cool. Sorry for the late post I was on vacation in Mexico. I have a few more tricks up my sleeve that I have been working on and hope one other will make it on the tried and true. As soon as I can get a few kinks worked out I will post the recipe....Pugi :D
Keep those tricks comming!!

Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:17 pm
by Still more
I am curious about the fertilizer... it doesnt seems safe to me, is the yeast eating it all by the time its done fermenting. Any residual fertilizer would affect taste and possibly even your health, with the variables in yeast fermentation with temp and what not. How many runs have you done with this yeast bomb? Do you add the bomb each time or is the yeast left over have enough energy to take care of the following batch?

Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:30 am
by PUGIDOGS
Still more wrote:I am curious about the fertilizer... it doesnt seems safe to me, is the yeast eating it all by the time its done fermenting. Any residual fertilizer would affect taste and possibly even your health, with the variables in yeast fermentation with temp and what not. How many runs have you done with this yeast bomb? Do you add the bomb each time or is the yeast left over have enough energy to take care of the following batch?
Sorry for the late post, I have been away for awile. The fertilizer question has been covered on this site a couple times before. A quick search will answer your question. What it comes down to is the heavy salts do not come over with the distillant. The turn to vapor at a much higher temp. then we use. No I dont add the bomb every time. It does have leftover energy. Just mix it up and let it go. If it is slow bomb it. I have even bombed it on the second day.....Pugi

Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:09 am
by Barney Fife
I don't use any bombs or extra fertilizers, but I don't mind waiting 2-3 weeks for my wash to be ready. Point being, if you're worried about using da bomb, it's not necessary. Some would argue also, that slow ferments are cleaner, but i can't back this up, having never tried for super fast ferments.

Pugi, I ran a rum this week, with rum oils, for the first time. Didn't hurt anything, but the distillate doesn't seem different than my usual. I'll let these age separately from the rest and see what time does to it, and I will keep playing around with these rum oils, but a couple questions:

What should i expect to be different? The smell ad initial flavor seems 'normal'. And second, do you get more oils with every generation? I collect 900ml with my initial run, and added them to this week's rum run, and collected 1.6 liters this time! Seems I'm just recycling the oils and re-collecting them(which would be a waste of time and effort). That, or I'm missing something here...

Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:04 pm
by PUGIDOGS
What I have found is...running them over and over this portion does get bigger and stronger. In time some will spill over into the late hearts. Not enough to ruin the drink but enough that you will smell and taste the difference. You might try a few more generations and see if it makes a difference. I know mine did.....Pugi

Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:38 pm
by Barney Fife
Will do; I'll give it a few generations and take it from there.

Ever try adding some oils directly into your diluted, aged, ready to drink bottle(s)?

Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:09 am
by minime
minime wrote:
minime wrote:
Momma finally got around to blending the output today. She didn't use any of the of the 85% (she doesn't like heads flavor at all) and none of 45% that contained the beginning tails. We ended up with 8 liters of 70%abv and have added some pineapple, raisins and peppercorns and some caramelized sugar for color. She tried a shot after dinner and says this should mature into a very good rum. We have the salvaged rum oils for the next spirit run so things should keep getting better.

thanks again for the great recipe Pugi
Update to this project.........Much to my dismay this project did not work out as well as hoped. Likely because I'm not a rum drinker and Momma is not very aware of the whole process. After a couple of tastings of the blended output she decided she didn't like it. (She's a Bacardi Gold drinker and finds Appleton's too spicy)
So rather than neutralize everything I thought I'd give everything a re-run in the pot still. I wish now I'd kept the higher percent stuff that I'd thrown in the neutral jar but oh well. I threw the 8 liters of 70% and 1.5 liters of rum oils and diluted with tap water down to 40%. Remember I'm trying to loose some of the flavor. I fired up the still and knowing there was no heads I started collecting and took it from around 80% down to 65% and stopped collecting. I then put my column on and continued to collect another 1.5 liters of neutral.

So in total I now have close to 6 liters of rum at 75%abv. I took it into the house and mixed up one ounce on ice with 5 ounces of diet Pepsi (that's her usual drink) and handed her the glass.

So her eyes got REALLY big. This is the BEST rum she's ever tasted. So I took the glass from her with a puzzled expression and gave it a taste. I have to say even though I'm not a rum drinker this is really, really good. Very smooth, full of flavor, and not yet blended with anything. In fact she's not sure she even wants to blend it with anything, it's that good!

The bonus for me is the neutral. I think it's the best neutral I've ever gotten from my 42 inch column.

Oh yea Pugi. After I pulled off the neutral I went back to the pot still and collected the rum oils for future runs.

Absolutely Awesome.

Edit to add this observation.

After everything cooled down I opened the boiler to empty it out. There was the very distinct smell of sour tails left in the boiler so I think I likely messed up on my first run. I've never run the pot still for collecting purposes before this attempt. Always just used it for stripping.

Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:14 am
by PUGIDOGS
Very nicely done minime,

Not to long ago I took 3 gallons of rum fients and 1 gallon of UJSM feints and reran them. It turned out wonderfull. A nice light rum taste with a touch of corn. Very smooth and highly sought after at the poker table.....Pugi

Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:43 pm
by Ozark Shiner
If you haven't tried Pugi's "Yeast Bomb" you don't know what you are missing.

That was the most vigorous ferment I have ever seen. 39 lbs of fermentables went from 1.080 to 1.007 in 36 hours.

Incredible.....

Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:16 am
by trthskr4
PUGIDOGS wrote:Very nicely done minime,

Not to long ago I took 3 gallons of rum fients and 1 gallon of UJSM feints and reran them. It turned out wonderfull. A nice light rum taste with a touch of corn. Very smooth and highly sought after at the poker table.....Pugi

I hope it goes the other way also, a while back I accidentally added 1 gallon of a rum strip in with 3 gallons of all grain corn strip and did a spirit run on it. I wasn't used to doing rum, just trying it to get ready for winter, and got a pint of tails in the gallon of hearts from the run so I'll have to rerun it with a gallon of grain backset. Hope it comes out, don't know if I'm gonna oak it like whiskey or leave it white.

Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 7:49 pm
by Ozark Shiner
Now for the tricky part. On the spirit run:
Run it easy, not to fast, not to slow.
Make the heads to hearts cut like normal and add heads to the vodka/neutral container, do NOT reuse these in your rum.
Run out hearts till you start to get the wet cardboard taste. On my still this is between 85% ABV and 50% ABV. Collect wet cardboard spirits and add to vodka/neutral container. Do NOT reuse these in you rum. For me this is from about 50% ABV down to 40% ABV.
Collect the 40% ABV down to 20% ABV in seperate container. These are your RUM OILS. Handle them with care and treat them special. Always add them to your still when you do a SPIRIT run and always collect them from the spirit run. The more times you use them the more concentrated they become. It wont take long and they will overflow into the hearts. This is the KEY to My rum.
I'm a little embarrased to say but I don't understand these instructions. :oops: Could someone help me? I've run several neutral runs so I understand that really well. What I want to do now is a rum. I've read all of the main website and as many of the forum topics as I could find. The three things I don't completely understand:

1) What are the proper cut percentages ?
2) How do you mix this back together for a proper style of rum ?
3) How do you vary the style of rum from a light Bicardi to a dark Sailor Jerry based on mixing the various ABV ?

I have a 15 gallon fractioning still with a 2" diameter column 42" long.

Thanks guys - I appreciate any help !!!

p.s. On the main site under the tab Distilling / Distilling the Wash / Rum from a Reflux Still - Arroyo recommends a procedure about making five different cuts and then blending it all back together. He first gives the approximate temperatures and then the ABV of the cut and finally the approximate percentage of the total distillate. He does this for the first three cuts but doesn't tell you the percentage of the total distillate for the last two cuts. Anyone have an idea what those might be. Also - he doesn't reuse any of the rum oils that Pugi recommends.... any thoughts? Thanks again for tolerating my ramblings.

Yeast bomb ingredients and scaling this mash bill.

Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:50 am
by Dan Call
Questions regarding the "yeast bomb"...

I'm searching for 20-0-0 agricultural fertilizer and it's coming up as "liquid ammonium nitrate." I assume this is not correct.....or is it? Perhaps a little more detail as to what to expect when looking for this stuff as this particular designation might be a tad generic, or more likely, I'm a tad off in my understanding.

If I wanted to double or triple the quantity of this mash bill, I'm thinking that this would not require the same rate of increase of the yeast bomb. Nevertheless, the question remains, with what rate does the yeast bomb scale?

Thanks.....

Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:57 pm
by StabbyJoe
I was under the impression that you could probably go to somewhere that sells either garden or farm supplies and look through for the 20-0-0. The numbers are a ratio - forget exactly what each one is for... I think the first one is nitrogen? hmm.
But I thought you could just ring up a garden supply place and ask if they had any 20-0-0 fertiliser.

Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:20 pm
by trthskr4
First number is nitrogen and yes it would be ammonia nitrate, liquid or granular form but be careful asking around for this as it's also used in bomb making (do you remember the federal building in Oklahoma City?). Second and third are potassium and phosphorous but I believe the correct order is N-P-K.

Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:52 pm
by HookLine
but I believe the correct order is N-P-K.
Yup. It is always written in that order, N-P-K (Nitrogen - Phosphorous - Potassium).

Ammonium nitrate is 34-0-0, so I am not sure what you got there at 20-0-0. If it is in liquid form it might just be dilute ammonium nitrate, or it might be ammonium sulphate (21-0-0, + 24 sulphur), which is quite acidic.

BTW, diammonium phosphate (DAP), is 18-46-0.

Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:57 pm
by trthskr4
I use a liquid fertilizer that is 10-24-0 and it's liquid, pretty green liquid that turns white in water. So it will probably be a liquid at 20.

Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:56 pm
by Dan Call
I looked closer and it's 'ammonium sulfate' rather than ammonium nit****. I don't even want to write it again or it's associations as it might attract even more unnecessary attention to this forum. Gentleman like us don't need that type of attention on this forum or elsewhere and the first thing that entered my mind was that terrible tragedy and I hope it never happens again or anything remotely similar.

Apparently the 20-0-0 is fairly common fertilizer.

Can someone address the batch scaling issue and the associated increase in the yeast bomb, I'm wondering if anyone has scaled this mash volume.

Re: Pugi's Rum or "Pugirum"

Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 4:49 pm
by Ozark Shiner
OK.... ran my first strip run of rum and had a couple of observations / questions

1) The fermenting wash smelled aweful !!! The wife ran it... and me out of the house... Is that normal ?
2) The stripped wash came over with a light tint to it. Sort of a yellowish / tan... Is that normal ?
3) Noticed tiny little bits of dark brown / black particulate in the wash. When I say tiny, I mean the size of a speck of dust... Is that normal ?
4) Poured it all through a couple of coffee filters for storage and it cleaned up OK.
5) I bought Blood Meal fertalizer (12/0/0) for the nitrogen source of Pugi's Yeast Bomb. What are your thoughts about this ?
I thought it would be completely steralized by the heat and the alcohol.... curious what everyone else thinks.


Still interested in any comments on my questions that are about four posts higher than this one.

Thanks y'all.