uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

[sizzlnchef 1]

GM all. OK its been 15 hrs + and no bubbles in air lock. Followed the recipe to a T. Should I dump and start over or let it be for a while?

[yankeeclear]

Is there any activity in the wash (bubbles, corn rising/falling)? Is the seal on the lid airtight? Did you pitch the yeast? Was the temp of the wash under 100F (preferably > 90F) when pitching?

[mash rookie]

Are you using a bucket? Pull the lid and see if it is actually working. It might be your seal. If not re pitch some yeast while you can. Wake up a quarter cup, 95 degree F. water. pitch half. Add wash to the other half and grow over night before pitching. That should be enough to overcome any bacteria that may have formed. Its hard to over pitch UJSSM

[the pure drop]

Quick question while we are on the subject. If the wash was not aerated properly, or not at all, would the yeast begin to do their job and then just fizzle out? Or is it possible that without the proper amount of oxygen they won't start working at all? I've never encountered a wash that would not start working within an hour our few, so this is good knowledge to have in order to trouble shoot any future potential issues with a wash or mash.

[Uncle Jesse]

Quick question while we are on the subject. If the wash was not aerated properly, or not at all, would the yeast begin to do their job and then just fizzle out? Or is it possible that without the proper amount of oxygen they won't start working at all? I've never encountered a wash that would not start working within an hour our few, so this is good knowledge to have in order to trouble shoot any future potential issues with a wash or mash.

In my experience, aeration helps you with the efficiency of a ferment, but I've never seen a ferment fail to start for lack of oxygen in the wort.

Things to check:

- did you heat the yeast mix up enough to kill the yeast?
- remove the lid and stick your head near the top of the bucket and take a breath... is there a lot of co2?
- what is your SG? did you put in too much sugar? is there too little sugar left?
- pH

[mash rookie]

Quick question while we are on the subject. If the wash was not aerated properly, or not at all, would the yeast begin to do their job and then just fizzle out? Or is it possible that without the proper amount of oxygen they won't start working at all? I've never encountered a wash that would not start working within an hour our few, so this is good knowledge to have in order to trouble shoot any future potential issues with a wash or mash.

I got to say I am a little intimidated chiming in here with UJ watching. Master yoda.

No an initial wash will not stop for lack of oxygen. There needs to be enough oxygen for the yeast to grow initially. (Aerobic phase) When the yeast has consumed the available oxygen it will cease to multiply and start to produce alcohol.(anarobic phase)

Using backset that has been boiled does reduce the amount of oxygen but when used with an large and established yeast bed should still ferment well. The only thing that I have found to slow the ferment is being to acidic.

Chef, You did not say if it started well to begin with? A little more info ? You got UJ watching out for you. Lucky guy.

MR


Rad. Thinking about it this morning I realized I had used the wrong word. I came back to change it and found that you had. Thanks for watching my back. I dont want to give bad info. Good example of you reading each post.

[sizzlnchef 1]

I don't think it started well. Opened it up and looked like yesterday when i put it together.

[mash rookie]

I don't think it started well. Opened it up and looked like yesterday when i put it together.

Quickly get your yeast re-pitched as I described above before infection sets in to that sweet mix. Bakers yeast works fine. I use Crosby distillers yeast. Once up and running it is an easy mix to keep going.

[the pure drop]

Thanks for the replies. That was sort of what I thought. I also imagined that if all else fails re-pitch. Anyway, I've never actually had ujssm that would not start working off. All good info, thanks for the insights

[Odin]

Hi UJSSM fans,

I have got a question. Just back from holidays in Hungary, I have been asked to make whiskey for our nieces wedding. I just started the 3rd generations of UJSSM right now and looking forward to the results. From the 4th gen on it should be great and stable, right? Since I have got some two and a half months to go I think on ageing with wood. To my surprise I can buy the Jack Daniels BBQ Chips here, in the Netherlands, and that is what I am planning to use. The question I have is, there seem to be two versions: grillet pellets for smoke flavouring in 450 grams baggs WOOD CHIPS and WOOD SMOKINGS CHIPS. Both claim to be made from used JD barrels. The second one comes in a 3 kilo variety and from the looks of it on the internet, the pieces might be bigger and less black. Which is to prefer? Any more general info on how much grams per liter and saturation time would be great!

Odin.

BTW: my second gen UJSSM was very much aprecieted!

[mash rookie]

Hi UJSSM fans,

I have got a question. Just back from holidays in Hungary, I have been asked to make whiskey for our nieces wedding. I just started the 3rd generations of UJSSM right now and looking forward to the results. From the 4th gen on it should be great and stable, right? Since I have got some two and a half months to go I think on ageing with wood. To my surprise I can buy the Jack Daniels BBQ Chips here, in the Netherlands, and that is what I am planning to use. The question I have is, there seem to be two versions: grillet pellets for smoke flavouring in 450 grams baggs WOOD CHIPS and WOOD SMOKINGS CHIPS. Both claim to be made from used JD barrels. The second one comes in a 3 kilo variety and from the looks of it on the internet, the pieces might be bigger and less black. Which is to prefer? Any more general info on how much grams per liter and saturation time would be great!

Odin.

BTW: my second gen UJSSM was very much aprecieted!

I am assuming that it is your third generation because you saved backset from your previous batch to start this one. Lees will keep for a little while but even if you have to start with fresh yeast and corn the all important backset is what really matters.
It should start to be damn good soon and stay great from there. I always save some extra backset in my shop fridge just in case I need it.

I am not sure what you mean by "stable" ?

On the JD chips, do not use pellets. I use the smoker chips. They are chipped barrels. They have some char on the edges. First soak use 25% chips then add a little fresh chips each time they are re-used. After about three or four soaks they are pretty much spent of color ability. The oak still has magic left. Continue to use them if you like a light color or save them for oaking your rum. After 6-8 weeks your booze will be much smoother. 10 -12 weeks is as long as I have ever gone on oak chips. How long you wait before bottling is up to you.

[Odin]

Hi MR,

Thank you for the answers. By stable I meant that the first few generations - as I read - improve in taste. From generation 3 or 4 onwards taste will not further develop and stay stable. I will buy the JD smoker chips. Still have a question on how to use them though. If you say 25% do you mean that you fill your demjohn for 25% with these chips and then fill up with UJSSM? Or am I completely misinterpreting your post here? What I am looking for is any insight as to how many grams per gallon I should use approximately. Just some generic indications, so I don't over- or underoak!

Since the first two runs on UJSSM where made on holidays and I could not get everything back home with me, I just collected the backset from generation 2 (5 liters) and am now making the 3rd generation with it. A total of 20 liters, so 25% of second gen backset. Some 3.4 kilo's of granulated sugar, 3.4 kilo's of cracked corn, and some 200 grams of fresh corn kernels I could by at the supermarket. I put those fresh kernels in the blender and added them, together with some yeast. Yep, I am starting with new corn & yeast, but understand that is not a problem, because my backset is from gen 2.

I also saved the feints of the previous run and will put them in with the mash, just before the first run of the 3rd generation that is now bubbling away.

Comparing the results of the first sour mash run to the second, was interesting. The second one had more of a corn like taste, but it was in general not a lot of taste. I think I overshot somewhat on the sugar and got a higher ABV. I also double distilled and got the final product out at 85%, which might be why taste intensity was a little less than I expected it to be. Over 80% you start to lose taste, right?

The first gen of UJSSM I distilled in a different way. I had enough for 1 1/2 fillings of my pot still. So I ran one stripping run, added the results of that run to the remainder of the mash and redistilled, made cuts, etc. Something like a 1 1/2 distillations kind of likor ... Curious as to what distilling strategies you guys use ...

Odin.

[mash rookie]

Oden,
I will let the pot still guys chime in here to tell you how to run UJSSM with pot still but I wouldn’t think you would loose any flavor there. Even at 85%. My flute does 90%+ with full flavor.

It does take about 3-4 generations before the backset has full flavor to add. You could use more backset if you adjust the PH.

Yes, fill your oaking vessel with 25% JD chips and top off with UJSSM

The Oaking term “less oak less time, more oak more time” Does not apply when using JD chips. They will not impart the woody flavor of tannins that only time will remove with a fresh barrel or new spirals or chips. It is my opinion that because the JD chips have been previously exposed to alcohol that the tannins have been removed.

So yes, you can over oak without bad results. Some guys will argue that we will be missing some of the flavors that only time in a freshly charred barrel will impart. They certainly may be correct and have their opinion. I do plan to buy a barrel eventualy.

I am some what of a Bourbon snob. I have sampled every top shelf Bourbon that I could find in the last twenty years. Since I learned UJSSM and found the match up of JD chips the other stuff tastes like crap to me. Everyone that has sampled my stuff loves it.

UJSSM and JD chips. A combination that works! It wont make your stuff taste like JD. It will darken, smooth and richen a good corn liquor!

MR

[Odin]

A clear answer, MR! And I will be ordering those JD chips right away. Goes for around 16 USD per 3 liters around here. Good runnings to you, mate! Odin.

[marshrunner757]

I probably over looked these details, but I have a quick question. I have my fermenter set up in my house, is ambient temp of 74F ok for fermenting?

[Bull Rider]

Mash...

74 is good.


Bull

[marshrunner757]

Thanks

[Odin]

Oden,
I will let the pot still guys chime in here to tell you how to run UJSSM with pot still but I wouldn’t think you would loose any flavor there. Even at 85%. My flute does 90%+ with full flavor.

MR

MR,

Is this one of OD's flutes you are using? Saw some pictures, fell in love ...

Odin.

[Odin]

Hi UJSSM partners!

I have a question and hope you can help. As some of you know I am on a bit of a tight schedule in making my UJSSM for a wedding comming up. Now I don't want to compromise on quality, but would like a bit more "control" over how long my mashing takes. Seems to take a bit longer with every generation I make ...

Now my question is, is there an optimal temperature for the UJSSM wash? Currently I am brewing at home and temp is around 21 degrees centigrade. Maybe one of those aquarium "heaters" would help? I saw one that you can put in your was in such a way that it takes on any temp from 18 degrees centigrade to 34. Now 18 will be difficult, since it is a bit warmer here, and 34 is tooooo much, but would this help at speeding up a bit? Or is it just a very silly idea?

Odin.

[mash rookie]

Oden,
I will let the pot still guys chime in here to tell you how to run UJSSM with pot still but I wouldn’t think you would loose any flavor there. Even at 85%. My flute does 90%+ with full flavor.

MR

MR,

Is this one of OD's flutes you are using? Saw some pictures, fell in love ...

Odin.

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 50&t=22305 No, it is my build. of course OD design. My artist touch.
MR

[Odin]

WOW! If you are still looking for a name, I would suggest "Every Man's Dream". Well, mine at least!

[Odin]

Another question on UJSSM. Hope you guys & girls out there can help! I have been reading a lot of posts on using baking soda. It is supposed to help you get a better PH in your mash. Clear so far. But I also see guys (or girls, who knows?) using it on their spirit run in order to get a better head/hearts seperation. The results of getting your heads down (?) from a few yars to only one seem to be pretty impressive. Now, if you have an OD-flute, I think it is not needed, but for a poor simple pot still fellow like me? Would you planetheads suggest I do this in order to get a better head seperation? Or does it have negative side effects? And if usable in a spirit run, would 1 teaspoon per liter of low wines (around 35/40%) be enough?

Odin.

PS: the funny thing about this UJSSM recipe is that it not only creates a good likker, but also makes my head spin with more & more questions, instead of less & less questions. Hmmm ... maybe the learning curve is finaly taking of? About time, running towards 43 overhere.

[mash rookie]

I have only ever used baking soda in a neutral wash before distilling. I don’t believe it is necessary on UJSSM.

UJSSM. Baking soda can be used to raise the PH of your backset but not advised as it is believed that salts will build up and cause other issues. It is sodium carbonate.

Calcium carbonate is preferred. Usually bought a pool supply. You can use antacid pills in a pinch. They are calcium carbonate.

UJSSM fermentation will slow with each generation as the backset PH level becomes more acidic. Use calcium carbonate. Keep it in the 5 range and it will still work off well.

MR

[Odin]

My third generation UJSSM is allmost done. Want to get it of the yeast bed and read about two possible ways. Syphon it of the top of the bed or use the tap at the bottom of the fermenter to draw the liquid of. Now I skip run with an electrically heated pot still with internal element. Afraid of using the tap in the fermenter. Will that not bring out much more debries? And might that not burn onto the element? My tap is well under the bed, as I look at it. On the other hand ... with the tap on the fermenter, I will be able to extract much more liquid and get rid of most of the alcohol in the bed.

Any suggestions are welcome!

Odin.

[likkerluvver]

My third generation UJSSM is allmost done. Want to get it of the yeast bed and read about two possible ways. Syphon it of the top of the bed or use the tap at the bottom of the fermenter to draw the liquid of. Now I skip run with an electrically heated pot still with internal element. Afraid of using the tap in the fermenter. Will that not bring out much more debries? And might that not burn onto the element? My tap is well under the bed, as I look at it. On the other hand ... with the tap on the fermenter, I will be able to extract much more liquid and get rid of most of the alcohol in the bed.

Any suggestions are welcome!

Odin.

If you use the tap it will clog and you may only get a trickle that will take forever.

I use a self-priming syphon with a small hop bag tied around the base to prevent clogging. I just rest it on top of the trub. You can push it down into the trub to get more liquid BUT... the more liquid you remove - the more yeast you remove with it.

If you let the syphoned wash settle overnight, you can again syphon it into your boiler - leaving quite a bit more settled-out yeast and fine trub (which can be returned to your fermenter).

Works well for me with my internal elements.

[Odin]

Thanx Likker! That is just what I did right now: pulling it of with a syphon with a hop sack around it. Came out nice and yellow. Could pretty much collect all the mash and no large debries came over. Looks pretty silky yellow though, so I will let it settle at least until this evening. Smells good. Sour, som corn, maybe ...

Some interesting remarks I made. Well, at least interesting to me, that is! Yesterday I took a reading on the mash and it said .99 which would mean all sugar is over & out, right? Still, it continued bubbling. Very, very slowly, but unmistakenly. Like a burb every 5 minutes or so. Took another reading this morning and it said .99 again. Is the corn itself slowly being converted to sugars that are consequently fermented? Would explain why it just goes on and on.

Looking at the yeastbed & corn, I had a lot of floaters. All white, so I took them out. Also on top of the bed was a large layer of white, spend corn. Underneath a thik pack of nice, yellow corn. In total, I think I had to take out 1/3 of my corn. Reading this thread up and down, that seems like a lot. Maybe another indication that my corn is converting & fermenting?

Tonight I plan to striprun the around 17 liters I collected. Together with half a liter of feints I could retrieve from an earlier run. I think about not distilling all of the mash, but taking out around 2 liters. The 15 liters that will get a striprun will give me 5 liters of low wines. Adding the 2 liters of mash to the low wines before second distillation might add to taste experience, I hope. Anybody any experience with that? Actually it means most is distilled twice and some is distilled only once. Gives me a lover overall ABV and should give me more taste (I hope). Tried it like that on Rad's Allbran recipe and there it worked just fine!

Keep you posted!

Odin.

[mash rookie]

Did you replace the spent corn? Did you add some tepid water over your yeast bed after siphoning of your wash?
You want to keep it happy while you distill. After distilling use some hot backset to disolve new sugar. Make sure it has cooled before adding back to your yeast bed.

Yes, you are getting some conversion but not much. Taste the wash. If it is still sweet, let it continue fermenting. If dry it is time to distil.
I'm not sure why you would combine stripped wash with fresh? No need to re invent the wheel. You should have plenty of flavor from your backset.

MR

[Odin]

MR,

I hear you! Even getting an increadible amount of taste, when flute distilling it at 92%, right? Well, great to know. I will just double distill, than. Making cuts on the second one.

I did cover the bed with another 10 liters of water to keep the yeast happy. I did not yet replace the corn. Thought of doing that in another way: use the backset (hot) to dissolve sugar, then put in the corn. Heats up the corn a bit, cools down the backset with sugar a bit.

If my method is wrong, please let me know!

Odin.

[blind drunk]

The 15 liters that will get a striprun will give me 5 liters of low wines. Adding the 2 liters of mash to the low wines before second distillation might add to taste experience, I hope. Anybody any experience with that? Actually it means most is distilled twice and some is distilled only once. Gives me a lover overall ABV and should give me more taste (I hope).

Lots of folks do it this way. Works out nice.

[Odin]

Now that I am back in Holland, surrounded with all my equipment, instead of in Hungary with only the smallest of my stills with me, I just stripped 20 liters of 3rd gen UJSSM. Gave me 6.5 liters of low wines at 39%. Isnt that a bit much? I mean, calculating backwards, that would mean the mash was 13%. And I did follow the recipe to the letter (well, almost) and used 3.5 kilo's of sugar only. I expected 10% and not much more. Was the corn adding? Apart from the required amount of cracked corn, I did add some cooked & canned corn that I sliced to a slush with the kitchen machine ... Or is my math wrong? Or did I just have one Drambuie too many? Anyhow, backset & sugar & fresh corn & some cracked wheat (100 grams) & the slushed up cooked & canned corn is all cooling down and waiting to be thrown upon the waiting yeast bed and still okay corn (nicely covered with water). Added 3.2 kilo's of sugar this time in stead of 3.5 kilo's. Hoping for a slightly lower ABV on the next mash ánd maintaining relatively swift fermentation time. Uped the backset a bit to something closer to 30% than 25%, though. Should add some extra tastiness, no?