uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

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NZChris wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 9:40 pm I run my UJSSM strips to about 27% ABV for the total collection. At that ABV the low wines produce a pot stilled spirit that can be cut for 'ready to drink' white dog, or a spirit useful for ageing, or cuts for both, your choice.

I don't recycle my stinking feints into my next wash, saving them, on oak, for an All Feints run when I have built up enough volume.
Food for thought.

Thanks, Chris.

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

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The Baker wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 9:24 pm I ran an 'apple' spirit wash at what I thought seemed a reasonable speed and it was awful,
sort of like heads but the whole way through?
Too fast for the distilling process, and smeared, I guess.
One of the VOCs that make apples taste like apple is ethyl acetate, a VOC common in most ferments and high early in most distillations. It's only a bad thing if you include too much in your cut. Like salt in your dinner, the correct amount is needed.

VOC Wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volatile_organic_compound
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by FogHorn LegHorn89 »

Geoff, I ferment in a 55 gal drum, (200 liters if I remember correct) I fermented and stripped all of the first gen and about 2/3 of the second gen into a second 15.5 gal keg tossing half pint (200ml) I think, each strip collecting way deep into the tails, ended up using 3-4 gals of wash to dilute to 40% before the spirit run. My 15.5 gal boiler was almost too full for my liking and started producing at around 178proof ended up with about 2gals of white dog hearts at around 150-160 proof, kinda wished I woulda bit the bullet and diluted a bit further down just to save myself the trouble of tempering at a later date but time was in short supply and I needed to get it done all in one shot instead of splitting it into 2 runs that I could have diluted farther down and had more room in my boiler so if you don't wanna mess with tempering I would try diluting to a lower starting abv as nzchris suggests, also would add that if I were to do it again (and most likely will) I would toss the first quart of heads from each stripping run in the feints vessel to save myself more space in the boiler for hearts on the spirit run, I ended up with over 2 gals of heads on my spirit run, a couple of the first jars of hearts* had a little more burn but I used those for apple pie so no biggie. Not saying this is the right way but it is how my last run went
Last edited by FogHorn LegHorn89 on Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

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Should also note that I use a simple potstill 2" diameter riser 20-24 inches in height to a 1" Lyn over to a 3/4 ID worm, no thump....yet
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by FogHorn LegHorn89 »

NZChris wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 9:40 pm

I don't recycle my stinking feints into my next wash, saving them, on oak, for an All Feints run when I have built up enough volume.
So you are aging your feints on oak before your all feints run? Why is that? Does that help mellow some of the burn from the heads? Does any of that oak flavor come over on the product? First time I have seen this mentioned is the only reason I ask.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

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FogHorn LegHorn89 wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:29 pm So you are aging your feints on oak before your all feints run? Why is that? Does that help mellow some of the burn from the heads? Does any of that oak flavor come over on the product? First time I have seen this mentioned is the only reason I ask.
It was an experiment that gave me very good results, so has become the norm in my shed. I haven't been keeping it a secret.
https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 15&t=82766
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by FogHorn LegHorn89 »

Thanks for the link Chris, Interesting stuff, I'm gonna have to give that a try. lol not saying anybody was hiding anything I guess I just haven't read into feints very much other that to save em up and rerun them. Appreciate the link
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

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FogHorn LegHorn89 wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:08 pm Thanks for the link Chris, Interesting stuff, I'm gonna have to give that a try. lol not saying anybody was hiding anything I guess I just haven't read into feints very much other that to save em up and rerun them. Appreciate the link
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by The Baker »

I've read most of the thread and am starting again to capture some of what I have missed...
But this I don't recall seeing.
I am not experienced in tasting whiskey;
What would be a readily available bourbon or sour mash that would be somewhat similar to this?

Thanks,

Geoff
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

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What would be a readily available bourbon or sour mash that would be somewhat similar to this?

Might help with making cuts, too.

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Yoosefheidari »

if i add some more suger and bring up SG to 1.090 (about 12% wash)then what happend?is that ok?
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by still_stirrin »

Yoosefheidari wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 6:30 am if i add some more suger and bring up SG to 1.090 (about 12% wash)then what happend?is that ok?
I’ll advised. Yeast struggle with high alcohol potential (O.G. > 10%ABV).

In fact, it is better to keep the potential to 8%ABV and simply make more. Remember, you’re going to distill it and remove the alcohol from the wash. So, more wash at a lower %ABV will still give you the same amount of alcohol to age when you’re done. But, the yeast will work more favorably and the end product will be better with less off-tastes.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

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Uncle Jesse wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:47 pm I'd appreciate any comments on this, especially ways in which i need to simplify things or explain things more clearly.

http://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.php/index.php ... ash_Method



This method was originally taken from J.W. Walstad's book Simple Sour Mash to Simple Alcohol Fuel! and has been modified according to my experiences.

This method is the most inexpensive I have found for producing Corn Whiskey. It is perfect for beginners because it does not rely on skill for mashing and does not require any cooking which greatly reduces the hassles and expenses.

I used this method for years until I mastered the processes involved in creating a quality sour mash whiskey, at which point I moved on to cooked mashes and more advanced efforts.


Ingredients

For a 5 gallon mash: (~19 liters)
5 gallons soft, filtered water.
7 lbs (3.2kg) cracked corn. 6-8 pieces/kernel is the proper crack. If using bird feed, make sure it is perishable, or in other words is free of preservatives.
7 lbs (3.2kg) of granulated sugar.
1 tbsp yeast (distillers yeast if available.)


Theory

Unlike a cooked mash, a simple mash does not rely on grains for starch. The corn is included for a bit of alcohol, but mainly for flavor while the sugar provides the alcohol. The conversion of starches to sugars is a natural process, accelerated by cooking. An uncooked mash will convert starches to sugars but much more slowly and less efficiently. Your added sugar will ferment rather easily and will provide most of the alcohol in your beer.

Your first distillation run will be a "sweet" run since you will not have any backset to use for sour mashing. I recommend using the spirits you collect in your first run as feints for the next run. Yes, all of them. Your second run will produce your first batch of sour mash, which will be good, but in truth the flavor and consistency will not start to reach their peak until the third or fourth run in my experience.

Practice, practice, practice!


First Fermentation

Put your ingredients into the fermenter in the order listed and close it. You should start to see fermentation of the sugar within 12 hours. It should take 3 or 4 days for the ebullition to end. Siphon your beer out of the fermenter with a racking cane and charge your still.

Siphoning is the best method because it allows you to pull the beer off the top of your lees, leaving them undisturbed. You do not want suspended solids in your still and this method works quite well in keeping the lees at the bottom of your fermenter.

At this point you need to make your first decision. How much backset will you use in your subsequent mashes? The legal minimum for a sour mash is 25%. I do not like to go above 50% in my experience. For the sake of simplicity, let's say you will start with 25% backset. This means that for a 5 gallon mash you will use 1-1/4 gallons (~4.75 liters) of backset and 3-3/4 gallons (~14.25 liters) of water.

Since you will be running your still for hours, you do not want to leave the fermenter empty. Put your 3-3/4 gallons of water back into the fermenter so your yeast won't die while you distill. While you're at it, this is a perfect time to scoop the spent corn off the top and replace with an equal volume of newly cracked corn. Later we'll add the 1-1/4 gallons of backset and 7 more pounds of granulated sugar.


Basics of Pot Distillation

There are two basic types of pot distillation:

The first involves a traditional pot still, which has no cooling in the neck or column. The distillate produced is lower in proof than that produced by a reflux still with a fractionating or splitting column. This is the traditional method of distillation and requires multiple runs. The distiller will save up enough low wines from the first runs or stripping runs to fill the still for a second run. If a triple distillation is desired, the product from second distillations are collected until enough spirit is saved to fill the still for the third spirit run, and so on.

The second type of pot distillation is performed in a reflux still equipped such that the column can be cooled during distillation. This type of still is far more efficient and can produce a high proof, high quality spirit in a single run.


First Run

Pot distill your wash, being careful to keep things running slowly. For beginners, 2-3 drops of distillate exiting the worm every second is just about the perfect speed. As you collect, periodically put 4-5 drops of distillate into a spoon with an equal amount of water and sip it. You will learn to identify the off-taste of the heads very quickly.

For your first run it is best to take very conservative cuts. I recommend very generic whiskey cuts, say 80% down to 70%. As your skills improve you will be able to go deeper into your cuts, tasting periodically for the off-taste of the tails. Once you learn to identify the off-tastes of the heads and tails you will be able to make proper cuts without the use of a hydrometer, a big step toward becoming a competent distiller.

By law any spirits collected above 80% cannot be called whiskey because they are considered too "light" or neutral. In other words, they are too high in proof and thus do not properly imbue the spirit with the flavor of the grain mash. I use anything collected above 80% as feints for the next run. For more information on the legal definitions for whiskies and other spirits check out Title 27 of the U.S. Code of Federal Regulations.

Remember to discard the first 150ml or 5 fluid ounces collected so you don't get a build-up of nasty esters etc. over time in your batches.


Second Fermentation

Your fermenter should now contain 3-3/4 gallons of water, your old yeast (barm) and your old corn.

Take 1-1/4 gallons of backset from your previous distillation and add to it another 7 pounds of granulated sugar. This will dissolve the sugar rather easily. Hot backset directly from the still works better at dissolving sugar, but adding hot backset to your fermenter will kill your yeast, so allow the backset to cool if you use this method.

Next, add this mixture of sugar and cooled backset to your fermenter, which already contains 3-3/4 gallons of water. This will bring your total beer volume back to 5 gallons.

Now is the time to make sure you have removed and replaced any spent corn kernels, which float to the top of the fermenter. You only need to do this if you plan on a continual ferment, that is, past 7 or 8 fermentations at which point your corn would otherwise be expended.

Cover the fermenter and let it ferment for another 3-4 days or until the ebullition ends.

Congratulations, if you have done everything properly you are now ready to run your first sour mash!


Second Run

Siphon off your beer and charge your still. Again, replace 3-3/4 gallons of water into your fermenter so your yeast doesn't die while you distill.

Distill your whiskey in the same manner you did during your first run, being conservative with your cuts until you gain more skill. Anything collected under 80% ABV on this run is considered a Sour Mash whiskey. Congratulations! This spirit is a palatable moonshine when collected directly out of the still.

Collect your run down to your stopping point. Again, I recommend 70% ABV for beginners, perhaps a few degrees into the 60's if you are bold. Save all of the spirit run as good sippin' whiskey.

Most moonshiners keep running their stills long after they are finished with the spirit run, collecting down to about 20% ABV before stopping. Together, the heads and tails are reused as feints. I do not normally go as low as 20%, you'll have to find your comfort zone. If you start to get blue or green flecks in your spirit, you've gone too far or run things too hot.


Repeat the Process

After your run, collect 1-1/4 gallons of backset to return to the fermenter for your next batch. Repeat the process starting at the Second Fermentation.

You are now producing a simple sour mash whiskey and with practice you will be able to produce a very high quality moonshine. Age this whiskey in an uncharred oak barrel to produce a traditional Tennessee-style whiskey.


Safety first, Duke boys. Have fun!



So, for 40l wash. Recipe goes like this.

7kg cracked feed corn,
7kg raw or white sugar (I like raw)
Dissolve sugar in hot water, then add enough cold water to make 40 l total.


Strip in potstill discarding 100ml of foreshots down to 20%. Save the strip. While the drum is empty, scrape off 1/3rd of a bucket of corn and add 1/3rd of a bucket of new corn.
Add some water (20l or so) to the yeast bed so you don’t burn the yeast next step.

Use 10l of hot slops (backset from the still run) to dissolve 7 more kg of sugar, stir it up and add to the drum. Add water to bring it up to the level it was before.

Watch it ferment and strip again and again.

When you have 40l of strip saved up, do a slow spirit run in the potstill making careful cuts. Age it on toasted oak sticks.

_
Uncle Jessie, thanks for this mash bill. I am sure many here have benefited. Has this original post been edited and updated with the revised recipe?
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by BigJames »

I have just finished the third generation of UJSSM. I have taken most of my spent grains out and added 17 pounds of white corn grits and high temp amylase to some hot backset with a small amount of spent grains and some leftover lees in the bottom of fermenter. Tomorrow I will add the remaining water and sugar to make a 10 gallon wash. I’ll check for starches before I add the sugars. I know this is not uncle Jesse’s recipe but still hope to get a sour mash for another generation or two. Wish me luck.
Oh, I have 2 gallons of low wines from the previous generations should I add this to the boiler. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Yoosefheidari »

i use ujssm recipes but have a problem
first 2 days of fermentation output gas from air lock smell like sulfur(rotten egg)but after that it become less and less and after 4 days sulfur smell all gone and output smells good.
whats the problem?
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Manic Mechanic »

Hi Uncle Jesse.
Just to clarify. I am new but have been making hooks rum for about 5 months with a reflux copper still (an Smiley design) with 15 gallon pot and propane. I run it wide open with no packing as a pot still. This forces me to make several low wine runs and a spirit run for final product. Just made my first UJSM wash and its fermenting nicely.
In your instructions you say to add all feints to the second wash. My first run will be low wines. I completely understand the recharging of lees and addition of dunder process. Soooo. my questiion is, when I strip my first sweet wash and create my second wash I should add the first low ines to the second wash when I strip it to give it more flavor. Then I will strip another 3 washes. That should give me about 16 litres of low wines to make a whisky spirit run. on oak a down the hatch.

Thanks
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Uncle Jesse »

The real issue here is that your first run won't be soured. Add your backset from your first stripping run to the second fermentation as the instructions say. Add all the feints from your first run to the still before charging it with your second fermentation, then run it. Collect your spirits from this run, then use the backset for your next fermentation and so on.

Again, it will take practice and a few generations before you really hit your stride with this recipe, but when you do I think you'll be happy with the product.

Manic Mechanic wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 12:28 pm Hi Uncle Jesse.
Just to clarify. I am new but have been making hooks rum for about 5 months with a reflux copper still (an Smiley design) with 15 gallon pot and propane. I run it wide open with no packing as a pot still. This forces me to make several low wine runs and a spirit run for final product. Just made my first UJSM wash and its fermenting nicely.
In your instructions you say to add all feints to the second wash. My first run will be low wines. I completely understand the recharging of lees and addition of dunder process. Soooo. my questiion is, when I strip my first sweet wash and create my second wash I should add the first low ines to the second wash when I strip it to give it more flavor. Then I will strip another 3 washes. That should give me about 16 litres of low wines to make a whisky spirit run. on oak a down the hatch.

Thanks
MM
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

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Yoosefheidari wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:16 am i use ujssm recipes but have a problem
first 2 days of fermentation output gas from air lock smell like sulfur(rotten egg)but after that it become less and less and after 4 days sulfur smell all gone and output smells good.
whats the problem?
What Yeast are you using ..did you add some sort of nutrients to the wash........did you follow the recipe exactly?
Ive made a lot of UJ in the past 10 years, never once experienced anything that smelled like sulfur.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Yoosefheidari »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:05 am
Yoosefheidari wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:16 am i use ujssm recipes but have a problem
first 2 days of fermentation output gas from air lock smell like sulfur(rotten egg)but after that it become less and less and after 4 days sulfur smell all gone and output smells good.
whats the problem?
What Yeast are you using ..did you add some sort of nutrients to the wash........did you follow the recipe exactly?
Ive made a lot of UJ in the past 10 years, never once experienced anything that smelled like sulfur.
no additional nutrients and exactly the original recipe.
i use bakers yeast(lesafre).
the only thing is when i pitch yeast wort's temperature was 33c and then after 24 hours became 28c.does it causes sulfur smell?
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by NZChris »

Yoosefheidari wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:16 am i use ujssm recipes but have a problem
first 2 days of fermentation output gas from air lock smell like sulfur(rotten egg)but after that it become less and less and after 4 days sulfur smell all gone and output smells good.
whats the problem?
If the smell has gone and the output smells good, what's the problem?
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Yoosefheidari »

NZChris wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:52 am
Yoosefheidari wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:16 am i use ujssm recipes but have a problem
first 2 days of fermentation output gas from air lock smell like sulfur(rotten egg)but after that it become less and less and after 4 days sulfur smell all gone and output smells good.
whats the problem?
If the smell has gone and the output smells good, what's the problem?
i want to know the problem to solve it and prevent happening for next generations.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by NormandieStill »

I've had the same issue with lessafre baker's yeast and a sugar wash (in my case, wineo's POSW). Sulphur smell at the start of ferment which soon went away. I think I was pitching the yeast a little hot as well (not sure if it was as high as 33C but probably around 28-30C. I never had the patience to wait for the temp to drop those last couple of degrees. If I run another batch I'll try and remember to note the temperature and to experiment with it to see if it's repeatable.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Yoosefheidari »

NormandieStill wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 8:57 am I've had the same issue with lessafre baker's yeast and a sugar wash (in my case, wineo's POSW). Sulphur smell at the start of ferment which soon went away. I think I was pitching the yeast a little hot as well (not sure if it was as high as 33C but probably around 28-30C. I never had the patience to wait for the temp to drop those last couple of degrees. If I run another batch I'll try and remember to note the temperature and to experiment with it to see if it's repeatable.
you are right
i change my yeast and pitch it at lower temp(28c) and now everything is ok
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Saltbush Bill »

28 to 30 is not hot for Bakers Yeast.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Evil_Dark »

Thanks Uncle Jessy for this receipe. It's now a super popular one! We can see it made all over Youtube by popular youtubers...

I made it several times, been to the 6th generation, on 2 different separate ferments batches (to have more stuff to distill almost every day ;) )
I've had lost a ferment in the 5th gen, the result was becoming super burning spirit. I think I had stressed out the yeast... Maybe. Not big deal. I started over a new one with a backset of a previous good ferment run.

I also made a test, after a good 4th generation I added 1lbs of oat on the ferment. Fantastic results! I was able to smell the oat when I runned it on the still... Very pleasant spirit. So I started another UJSSM from scratch, but with 5lbs of corn and 1.7 lbs of oat. (wated to have 2lbs but there weren't enough left on the oat bag... No big deal).
I saw that I have to mix the ferment when I start another generation as the oat tend to stick/clog in the bottom. Not sure how the oat will stant over time between generations...
Also, I do single distill runs instead of stripping run/spirit runs. And I am very happy with the results. I already tried the stripping run process, and for me the result were'nt worth the extra work/time/energy.
I will try it on my new reflux column to see the difference also!

All in all, thanks again!
Regards,
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Hillbillymike »

Evil_Dark wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:01 am Thanks Uncle Jessy for this receipe. It's now a super popular one! We can see it made all over Youtube by popular youtubers...

I made it several times, been to the 6th generation, on 2 different separate ferments batches (to have more stuff to distill almost every day ;) )
I've had lost a ferment in the 5th gen, the result was becoming super burning spirit. I think I had stressed out the yeast... Maybe. Not big deal. I started over a new one with a backset of a previous good ferment run.

I also made a test, after a good 4th generation I added 1lbs of oat on the ferment. Fantastic results! I was able to smell the oat when I runned it on the still... Very pleasant spirit. So I started another UJSSM from scratch, but with 5lbs of corn and 1.7 lbs of oat. (wated to have 2lbs but there weren't enough left on the oat bag... No big deal).
I saw that I have to mix the ferment when I start another generation as the oat tend to stick/clog in the bottom. Not sure how the oat will stant over time between generations...
Also, I do single distill runs instead of stripping run/spirit runs. And I am very happy with the results. I already tried the stripping run process, and for me the result were'nt worth the extra work/time/energy.
I will try it on my new reflux column to see the difference also!

All in all, thanks again!
Regards,
Are you using Rolled or Whole oats?
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Saltbush Bill »

This is a Tried and True Recipe thread...it's not the place for discussing bastardised variations.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

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Hillbillymike wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:57 pm Are you using Rolled or Whole oats?
I used the 5 minutes grocery Oat
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by subbrew »

After 9 months on wood I proofed my first bottle of UJSSM couple of nights ago. It is good and very smooth but rather one dimensional compared to a good commercial bourbon. I guess that is to be expected as my cuts were narrow so the white dog was easy to drink with just a nice corn flavor. So if you are selecting cuts with the idea of aging for a good bit of time, make wider cuts for additional flavor dimensions is my first lesson learned. Second, with narrow cuts and even 9 months on wood this is very smooth. Like you could fill an 8 oz tumbler and before you knew it, have sipped it all smooth. Smooth like that can sneak up on you and kick your butt.
FogHorn LegHorn89
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by FogHorn LegHorn89 »

The Baker wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:23 am I've read most of the thread and am starting again to capture some of what I have missed...
But this I don't recall seeing.
I am not experienced in tasting whiskey;
What would be a readily available bourbon or sour mash that would be somewhat similar to this?

Thanks,

Geoff
Merry Christmas everybody, haven't been on in a while,work and baby take up most of my time figured I'd drop in and see what's been going on

Similar to UJ? ....nothing I've ever drank that had a tax stamp lol, can tell you that it's waaay smoother than J.D. even being whitedog and only a couple weeks old I can tell you the only white likker that I have found that has a tax stamp and is actually fit for human consumption is from a distillery in north Carolina, don't know if I can mention them here, all the others I've tried haven't been anything that I'd try a second time lol
I do all my own stunts, intelligent or otherwise

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