uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Postby MR-Farms » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:24 am

First run of the UJSSM i yielded the following cuts out of 7 gal mash and now i don't know what to do with them. (Newbie, 5th run total. 3 sugar wash and 1 corn prior to this run)
1. 4 oz of heads collected
2. 20 oz of 160-150 proof
3. 20 oz of 150-140 proof
4. 20 oz of 140-130 proof
5. 20 oz of 130-120 proof
6. 20 oz of 120-100 proof
7. 20 oz of 100-80 proof
Stopped collecting after proof went below 80.

2nd generation mash is currently bubbling away in the fermenter.

My question is, where to go from here with these cuts from the first gen.? Any and all help is appreciated. Thanks in advance.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Postby jb-texshine » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:02 am

No where.
Try saving them and adding to your next run and collect it in smaller jars. Half pint or pint will give you nicer choices for makin cuts.
Kiwis guide to cuts is a must read.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Postby sltm1 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:45 am

If you want to practice your cuts, I would suggest saving jars 3,4,and 5 as your hearts for future comparison, they certainly won't be as good as your next run and as jb-texshine suggests, collect in 1 pint jars max in the future. Using a 6 gal wash in the boiler, I discard 1/2 a pint as fores, collect the next 1.5 pints as heads and don't include anything below 120 in my hearts collection. The heads and tails go into the thumper for my next run (looking at your #'s, I assume you're using a thumper).
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Postby Canuckwoods » Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:03 am

I distilled a batch a couple of weeks ago and filled a half gallon jug with 60%abv which I thought was the hearts along with 3 oak sticks that were toasted in the oven and then a light char was applied. I tried a diluted glass last night it was good but had a dusty flavor to it, like going into an old attic is the only thing I could think of, it smelt fine it was just the flavor. is it just too young or do I have another issue?
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Postby Shine0n » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:15 pm

A couple of weeks isn't long enough imo, put it in the back of the cabinet for 6 months then check it. I bet you like it more then, the oak needs time to do its thing and time will make it better.

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Postby TunaSquat » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:41 pm

I'm trying to gear up for my first ever distillation. I've read and reread and reread the UJSM recipe (along with about 30 pages of this thread) and I still have a couple questions. First, I'm still not clear on what to do with the alcohol collected on the sweet run. I believe it said I should rerun the entire yield as feints. Does this mean I would add them to the first sour run. If so, wouldn't I need to downsize the volume of mash so it all fits in the still? Do I add the tails from the sour mash stripping runs to the subsequent stripping run in the same fashion? What do I do with tails collected from the spirit run? How many gallons of mash should I shoot for if I have a 20 gallon still?

Thanks in advance.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Postby HDNB » Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:30 am

i think your best results will come with multiple strip runs of of wash...so about 100 gallons of ferment, make 5 strip runs and then re-distill all off the low wines in a spirit run.

take a foreshot cut and toss it. collect the run in 1l jars, after your cuts keep the heads and tails.

include them in the next strip run and take a fores cut and discard...collect 4 more strip runs and do another spirit run.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Postby TunaSquat » Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:01 pm

HDNB wrote:i think your best results will come with multiple strip runs of of wash...so about 100 gallons of ferment, make 5 strip runs and then re-distill all off the low wines in a spirit run.

take a foreshot cut and toss it. collect the run in 1l jars, after your cuts keep the heads and tails.

include them in the next strip run and take a fores cut and discard...collect 4 more strip runs and do another spirit run.


Ok, that makes sense, but if I'm adding sweet run heads and tails to the first sour stripping run, what do I do with the hearts from the sweet run? Also, I guess you answered my question about the still's capacity (a 20 gallon still will handle 20 gallons of mash). I didn't know if there needed to be a buffer there, like only using 75% of a still's capacity.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Postby HDNB » Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:15 pm

well, head space is a good idea. pukes are dangerous.

on a 100 gallon ferment you will likely only get 80 gallons or so racked off the lees.

so that would give you 5 x 16 gallons for stripping...assuming you collect about 20% of the wash volume back as low wines (pretty normal) you will end up with 16 gallons for a spirit run at just under 40%abv...almost perfect!

just to clarify on the reuse of feints (heads and tails) i'd mix them with fresh wash and take another fores cut on that run and then treat it as low wines, when you have collected enough (lets say another 4 strips) i'd do it all again as a spirit run, take a fores cut, toss it and then collect in 1 litre jars again for cuts.


edit.. oh yeah, the sweet run is just the first 5 strips...when you finish the 5th one that would be the backset for the sour mash ferment of 100 gallons...
or if you are doing 20 gallon ferments, obviously you could use the first on the second...so on and etc...
"heart cut" doesn't come into play until you are doing the spirit run...unless you are trying a "one and done" but since you are just starting out try the 5x strips and a spirit run, you'll like what you get.
lots of different ways to approach this.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Postby NZChris » Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:49 pm

TunaSquat wrote:Do I add the tails from the sour mash stripping runs to the subsequent stripping run in the same fashion?

There are no heads and tails from stripping runs. There is a foreshot that stinks of ethyl acetate that it is good to get rid of, but everything else until shutdown is the low wines that you save for the spirit run. The low wines from the first stripping run can be put in with the next strip, (or shared with subsequent strips if you don't have room in the boiler), but it won't be a disaster if you don't do that and save it for the first spirit run, or steal a cut out of the middle to drink.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Postby TunaSquat » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:40 pm

Sounds great, thanks for the pointers.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Postby PetePetosa » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:49 pm

I have some 4th gen ujssm racked off and set it outside to help it clarify a bit, but it doesnt seem to be clearing up. I have two fermenters going, one 6 gallon and one 4 gallon, so that I can get enough to run in my 8 gallon cream can. The smaller of the two, is stainless steel, and will clear up enough to see the bottom clearly, the other one, never seems to clear nearly that much. So I combined the two, being careful not to pull off the bottom, and set it out at below freezing the last two days, but not clearing a bit. Is it too cold? Or am I getting too impatient. I have been running it a bit cloudy the first 3 runs, thru reflux, and it comes out ok, a little strong flavored so i was going to try and clarify it more.... Any suggestions?
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Postby butterpants » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:49 pm

If I used some spare bourbon/corn mash backset at 25% of the initial generations liquid components bill would that essentially jump start me a few gens or is there something breaking down in the corn as well that is altering flavors as time proceeds? Obviously corn is used for flavoring but if the generational flavor is changing... what the main attributor?

Is anyone having any contamination manifestations due to successive yeast cakes being pitches right on top of without any mitigation of bacterial load?
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Postby zapata » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:02 am

The bacteria ia good, don't worry. In fact when starting a new cycle I will pre sour the corn by intentionally letting bacteria chew on it for a while (mix corn and water and hold around 100*F for a couple days, yum!).

Yes, you can start gen 1 with backset since you have it. It ain't quite the same as a later generation, but it's getting there. Some complex magic happens in later generations that I don't think has ever been elucidated, the big boys ain't doin this kinda wash, so the scientists aren't studying it.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Postby Saltbush Bill » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:05 am

wooddog wrote:there is a lot of wheat/corn fizzing at the top

That's about all you really need to know, its working fine.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Postby Canuckwoods » Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:14 pm

I finally got some new corn and mixed up a batch, it is coming off the still right now. WOW, it is good without aging at all and this is the first generation I can hardly wait for the next runs.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Postby Expat » Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:13 pm

I've been waiting for my chance to give this recipe a try.

Scaled up to 40 gallons to fill my fermenter. Gen 1 is two hours old and the yeast are aggressively boiling! Looking forward to running it!
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Postby Expat » Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:31 am

Seems like I didn't have to wait too long.

UJSSM is officially the fastest fermentation I've ever had. Three days from 1.076 down to .096 . None of the other sugarheads I've tried have ever been as quick. Usually a drop of 0.01 per day.

Same room, same fermenter, same sugar, same temp and PH so the secret sauce must be in the cracked corn. Whatever it is the yeasties sure love it! Not to say I aim for fast ferments, but it sure made for an exciting experiment.

I'll see tonight how it's settling, and rack off. I'm excited to get to gen 2
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Postby cdd » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:21 pm

can I use "distilling malt" instead of corn to make this mash?
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Postby Expat » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:37 pm

https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=778

It wouldn't be UJSM but you can ferment it. See link from the Google search function.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Postby butterpants » Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:15 pm

zapata wrote:The bacteria ia good, don't worry. In fact when starting a new cycle I will pre sour the corn by intentionally letting bacteria chew on it for a while (mix corn and water and hold around 100*F for a couple days, yum!).

Yes, you can start gen 1 with backset since you have it. It ain't quite the same as a later generation, but it's getting there. Some complex magic happens in later generations that I don't think has ever been elucidated, the big boys ain't doin this kinda wash, so the scientists aren't studying it.
Thank you.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Postby Shinerfortyniner » Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:49 pm

IMG_20180131_202736_hdr-640x365.jpg


Finally got some of my ujssm on oak. I've been nuking and freezing it. It definitely has some oak character now along with that bourbon color. Picture is too big, I need to find an image resizer.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Postby Expat » Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:47 pm

So.... I racked gen1 off my primary fermenter and I'm thinking I screwed up! 40 gallon brute, when I scaled the recipe from 5 gallons... Multiplied by 8 and topped up. Which doesn't account for the volume displaced by the corn. Arg. Volume I took off was 27g. Corn at the bottom was pretty solid. Expected?

So I've got extra corney UJSM? LoL how far off do you think I am?

If I'm over on the corn... I'd imagine that I could hold back on adding more corn in gen 2-3 and get the overall volume down.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Postby cdd » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:20 am

Does sour mean it's kinda infected in a way and the nastier the better? I distilled my first birdwatchers sugar wash the other day (the only modification I did was molasses for extra nutrients) and distillate has some fruity sweetness in it. It's very drinkable tho and no hangover :D Not a fan of the fruity/sweetish taste and smells tho. Should I try ujssm?
Btw my still produces 92-93abv.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Postby Bushman » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:09 am

cdd, for me the sour mash has two main purposes.
1. Collecting the sour mash right after a run and while hot is used to dissolve the sugar more easily.
2. The sour mash creates an acidic environment for the yeast.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Postby brewingredneck » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:52 am

I am hoping that someone can chime in and tell me about how the different grains will impart flavor on your product if you use ujssm method and don't cook your mash. For instance would it be worth it to add barley and oats to the mash or would this not impart any flavor since it isn't heated. thanks for the help
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Postby dieselduo » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:21 am

Yes each grain that you put in will impart it's own flavor. Try adding some malt or peat smoked malt next time and see the difference
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Postby brewingredneck » Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:19 am

Awesome thanks for the advice. I was thinking of also trying a ratio of corn, steam rolled barley, and rolled oats as well any suggestion on ratios for this. Or anything that might benefit it.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Postby Canuckwoods » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:25 am

Now on my 4th generation, all seems to be going well but I don't have to take out much spent grain maybe 2 cups if I am being really generous, probably only need to remove a cup.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Postby brewingredneck » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:40 am

When I do the standard ujsm I don't remove very much either. I think your good as long it turning out right.
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