Fortifying all grain with neutral.

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Fortifying all grain with neutral.

Postby CountClermont » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:16 am

Question, I have access to a decent quantity of neutral distilled from corn. I don’t drink neutral. I have seen a major commercial distiller suggest to craft commercial distillers that they can buy their neutral and fortify a fermented all grain to improve yeild without altering the flavor profile. They claim being able to increase ABV 2-4 times. Neutral is added AFTER fermentation of the all grain BEFORE distillation.

Don’t know what they mean by 2x-4x. 5% abv to 10%/20% ??
Or 10% to 20%/40%.??
They might have a max below 40%. It isn’t clear from the blurb on their site.

Would like to improve my yeilds as I am trying to fill 1 new charred oak 53 gallon barrel of Bourbon and 1 of Rye.
With time to age it....and maybe drink some....before I die of old age.

Any advice/thoughts is much appreciated.
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Re: Fortifying all grain with neutral.

Postby greggn » Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:39 am

Many distilleries do that ... though they prefer not to advertise it.

I think your confusion comes from what you consider neutral and what the commercial guys consider neutral. They're buying 95% NGS so that will increase the proof of their product by a calculated amount.
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Re: Fortifying all grain with neutral.

Postby corene1 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:06 pm

Just thinking out loud but it seems that if you add an amount of neutral to an existing stripping run, yes you will get a higher ABV on the hearts run but you will be losing some of the flavor of the initial low wines or mash that you are fortifying. Also with a higher ABV on the hearts cut you will have to temper it with distilled or RO water to get it down to cask strength for aging, so again less flavor in the finished spirit. Another thought is that you will lose some of the original neutral you cut with to the heads and tails of the run. So if you put in 1 gallon of neutral you will only get a percentage of that back in the collectible hearts of the run. I think that the type of still would have an effect on the amount the neutral contributed to the collectible hearts. A pot still, a pot still with thumper, a plated column, all would change the outcome to a different degree. Again just my thoughts.

Just an add on . You might want to look into smaller kegs. 50 gallons of hearts is a bunch of mashing and distilling. Just a quick calculation would be about 1000 pounds of grain for fifty gallons of spirit at 120 proof
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Re: Fortifying all grain with neutral.

Postby HDNB » Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:19 pm

corene1 wrote:Just thinking out loud but it seems that if you add an amount of neutral to an existing stripping run, yes you will get a higher ABV on the hearts run but you will be losing some of the flavor of the initial low wines or mash that you are fortifying.


likely a cutoff point of diminishing returns flavour-wise, but let's say you are a crafty and you make a mash and it stalls after making a percent or two of booze. you still have all the flavour but you got no likker...

add in a bunch of NGS to extract the flavour and you get some yield and the stalled mash is not a total wipeout. if you were working 250 or 500 kg of malt, that would be a big loss with out the NGS extraction...but a bit of a cheat for sure.

i think it may be a good way to balance an over-molasses rum too.

just some misguided thoughts. FWIW, i've made Tater's Kahlua from UJSSM so i may not be a purist. :shifty:
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Re: Fortifying all grain with neutral.

Postby corene1 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:42 pm

Makes perfect sense to me, just never thought of that scenario. Might just have to start saving my feints for that purpose instead of an all feints run.
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Re: Fortifying all grain with neutral.

Postby CountClermont » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:12 pm

The “neutral” i have access to is 95% commercially produced. No meth but prob full of heads and tails. I have access to 200 liters for free. My Bourbon mash is giving me 9%abv. My Rye is only 4%. I’m going to give it a try. I have some unadulterated white dog to compare it to. Will post results. I’m no expert on what kind of white dog produces good final product but will let everyone know if the forified tastes different imo.

Can’t let 200 liters of 95% go to waste....when I have an all grain mountain in front of me.

Thanks for the feedback.
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Re: Fortifying all grain with neutral.

Postby shadylane » Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:52 pm

CountClermont wrote:The “neutral” i have access to is 95% commercially produced.... I have access to 200 liters for free.

My brother in law, just felt a great disturbance in the Force as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. This not only made him thirsty, it gave him the desire to help you with the 200 ltr of Free alcohol
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Re: Fortifying all grain with neutral.

Postby Saltbush Bill » Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:30 pm

CountClermont wrote:The “neutral” i have access to is 95% commercially produced.

CountClermont wrote:No meth but prob full of heads and tails.

You cant make good commercial Netural and still have it full of heads and tails ....its either good or its bad.
If it was mine I'd clean it up if it needed and make about 400L of gin, Apple pie, Lemonchello, and other assorted things out of it.
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Re: Fortifying all grain with neutral.

Postby bilgriss » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:32 am

Fortifying your spirit run with the addition of a neutral WILL alter your flavor profile, mostly by diminishing it. And you'll have to deal with the heads/tails issue you described. As you are cutting heads that come with the neutral, you'll be removing part of your flavor. Same with the tails.

You'd probably be closer to the original flavor by just adding the neutral to your finished product, then diluting. And it's obvious why that method would reduce your flavor.
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