Which is the better still setup for Scotch whiskey

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heinz99
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Which is the better still setup for Scotch whiskey

Post by heinz99 »

So , I have stripped my first ever Scotch whiskey (made from 100% Peated barley malt , OG 1.075 ,FG 1.0039) down to an average of 35% ABV and am considering my spirit run.

I have 3 choices
1. Potstill
IMG_4581.jpg
Very little reflux,
Lots of overrun especially between heads and hearts , less so tails
2. Converted keg with a 500mm column packed with copper mesh and pre-cooler on top of the top column.
IMG_1052.jpg
This would be first prize as it would give me much better yield , control and separation.

3. The same converted keg with a 500mm column without any packing and no pre-cooler
Would get more aroma compounds over?


I did the strip run through the keg setup without the mesh
First price would be to do it with the keg with the copper mesh – I would then get a better separation, higher yield and am able to blend more separated heads and tails in the final blend?
Would I necessarily get less aromatic compounds or would they just more concentrated in the separates?
Would love to hear some thoughts out there..Thanks
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Re: Which is the better still setup for Scotch whiskey

Post by Jstroke »

Either the pot still or the keg with a pot still head and no packing or reflux cooling.

Reflux is for running neutral or vodka where you strip the flavors
If in doubt leave it out.
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Re: Which is the better still setup for Scotch whiskey

Post by SmokyMtn »

Welcome to the forum. This section is for introductions only. Tell your interests and goals. You are allowed to ask questions in the appropriate sections afterwards. Good luck and enjoy the read
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Re: Which is the better still setup for Scotch whiskey

Post by acfixer69 »

Moved topic to more appropriate forum.
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Re: Which is the better still setup for Scotch whiskey

Post by CopperFiend »

Pot still 100%. Keep that lovely peaty whisky well away from anything with reflux.
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heinz99
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Re: Which is the better still setup for Scotch whiskey

Post by heinz99 »

Thanks all!
The whisky stills I have seen have pretty long columns - so they have much more reflux than my potstill?
In case of doing it in a packed column - I assume some of the desired flavours will never come off with all the reflux , or if they do then they will be part of concentrated undesired heads or tails in the separates - If I then blend the concentrated heads and tails in not enough of the desired flavours will come though as the undesired ones will be too dominant?
Is this a correct assumption?
I understand that the smoky phenolic compounds have high boiling points so they will come of towards the end in the tails..

Some more detail of previous spirit runs
I normally am able to run the column head at about 80ºC (176ºF) and about 88% ABV with full packing and pre-cooler when I'm in heart territory
When I am not using packing or the pre-cooler its at 83ºC ( 185ºF) and 82% ABV
My potstill does more or less the same as the keg without packing and pre-cooler , I am mostly getting above 83% ABV in my hearts run
So I wonder whether I am running my potstill too slowly and whether I should maybe ramp it up towards the end to get more peaty flavours..

I assume its all about experimentation and tasting - but I love the science!!

Thanks!
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Re: Which is the better still setup for Scotch whiskey

Post by NZChris »

The best still setup is the one you've got. You just have to learn how to use it.

Copper does nice stuff that SS can't. I don't see a good reason for choosing an SS boiler over a copper boiler. If you do choose SS, put some copper in it. I've never run an all SS still, but I have smelled the results of other distiller's all SS stills and I wasn't impressed.

Heads, hearts and tails all contain the same components, it's just their ratios to each other that changes during the run. Your job is to choose a blend from your run that you like. After you have chosen your blend, the jars that you didn't choose are your heads and tails.
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Re: Which is the better still setup for Scotch whiskey

Post by 8Ball »

You left flavor and alcohol behind when you only stripped to 35% overall. Next time, strip down to 25% - 27%, or about a third of your boiler charge. I’d use the copper pot & no packing for sure.
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Re: Which is the better still setup for Scotch whiskey

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Some of the scotch distilleries strip down to almost 0%
See the heading " Low Wines Collection Range"
http://www.wormtub.com/distilleries/dis ... =Lagavulin
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Re: Which is the better still setup for Scotch whiskey

Post by 8Ball »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:55 pm Some of the scotch distilleries strip down to almost 0%
+1
That’s what I meant. Strip down to get it all, then strip some more water to dilute your low wines to 25% or so. Usually, collecting a third of your boiler charge will get you there.
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Re: Which is the better still setup for Scotch whiskey

Post by CopperFiend »

The only 'reflux' I can get on board with for whisky is a plated column of less than 3 plates. Even then, so much of what makes whisky amazing is lost. It's all personal taste and lots of people, particularly those that can't or won't age for the time needed, prefer the distillate from a plated still.

For a peated whisky as I mentioned, it would be total madness to use any reflux at all apart from the natural passive reflux that occurs on the sides of the riser. I am not sure that the commercial stills you've seen have actually been used for whisky if they have a tall column. Most have an onion and short riser.

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Re: Which is the better still setup for Scotch whiskey

Post by Saltbush Bill »

All of the best Scotch style Whisky that Ive tasted that has been made by hobby distillers has been pot stilled. From memory they have said they go deep into the strip and are pretty loose with cuts on the spirit run, then let oak and the angels sort it out.
Ive never tried to make it, just what Im "tole" by those who do.
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Re: Which is the better still setup for Scotch whiskey

Post by Chauncey »

Yeah there should be plenty info arnd on the cuts and info on the strips and notes about them if you look with the search and maybe the spirit style guide
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Re: Which is the better still setup for Scotch whiskey

Post by Deplorable »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:29 pm All of the best Scotch style Whisky that Ive tasted that has been made by hobby distillers has been pot stilled. From memory they have said they go deep into the strip and are pretty loose with cuts on the spirit run, then let oak and the angels sort it out.
Ive never tried to make it, just what Im "tole" by those who do.
This is what I went by on my single malt. For a little while I was nervous I may have went to far, but tasting that barrel along the way has been a good lesson on the magic of the barrel. The jury is still out on what the final product will taste like. It'll be another 8 months before I start drawing off bottles.
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Re: Which is the better still setup for Scotch whiskey

Post by NZChris »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:55 pm Some of the scotch distilleries strip down to almost 0%
See the heading " Low Wines Collection Range"
http://www.wormtub.com/distilleries/dis ... =Lagavulin
That's a very good summary from a commercial distillery. When designing a new project, I scour the web for this kind of info for my intended product. What materials are the stills built from, shapes, abvs, ingredients, anything else that might make a difference? You can surf Youtube and forums all day long, but old school industrial producers have been doing this stuff for a lot longer than most home distillers have and they know some valuable tricks. I agree that we can make better by not being quite as greedy with cuts, but there is still valuable info to be gleaned from them.
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Re: Which is the better still setup for Scotch whiskey

Post by heinz99 »

I was wondering about a few things...especially , how will the whiskey change with age
My intention is to make the Scotch as phenolic/smoky as possible - I also used a 100% peated barley malt...
Alot of that aroma is in the tails - but accompanied by that horrific fusel alcohol whiff
I question my own objectivity as I have been making mostly neutral alcohol and a bit of brandy...so am quite critical of the tails..

So how much of the head cut - fruity bits and more importantly how much of the Tail cut would help achieve the 'single malt style'
Below the cuts I made - quite conservatively
It was done in a converted keg with no packing as in the thread above.
Appreciated!
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Re: Which is the better still setup for Scotch whiskey

Post by Hambone »

We can’t taste it for you. But to me most of a whisky’s character is in the early tails. So I’d push the envelope a bit.

Sometimes I’ll put my tails jars in a fridge to see when they cloud up. For my taste, that is usually too far…
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Re: Which is the better still setup for Scotch whiskey

Post by Deplorable »

On the advice of others, I've taken to mixing a sample of my intended keep jars, then add measured amounts from the outside jars until I find what I think is one too far on either end. How Im going to age it and for how long, is taken into consideration as well when making a blend. Blending the cut jars is an art, more than a science. You have to figure it out through trial and error.
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Re: Which is the better still setup for Scotch whiskey

Post by Sporacle »

Deplorable wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 7:34 pm On the advice of others, I've taken to mixing a sample of my intended keep jars, then add measured amounts from the outside jars until I find what I think is one too far on either end. How Im going to age it and for how long, is taken into consideration as well when making a blend. Blending the cut jars is an art, more than a science. You have to figure it out through trial and error.
I'm with you Deplorable, I blend (thanks NZ Chris) and I find it gives me a much better product. I did an experiment and sampled each jar and wrote down where I thought they would sit and then made a few tiny blends, I'm collecting 300ml jars around what I think the transitions are and what I found was that I find the heads easier to pick in a blend than I do individually and that I now include more of what I think are tails, in simpler terms my cuts have shifted a couple of jars further towards the tails and I think my end product is much better
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Re: Which is the better still setup for Scotch whiskey

Post by LordL »

what I found was that I find the heads easier to pick in a blend than I do individually and that I now include more of what I think are tails, in simpler terms my cuts have shifted a couple of jars further towards the tails and I think my end product is much better
I have found that by ageing in barrels, and for home use (5 Liter barrels ) the heads are not that much of an issue. That's the spirits that will head out first to the angels anyway. Like a slow distill. But, the light alcohols have a possibility to synthesize esters before they leave, wich can contribute to some quite fruity aromas.

I think I lost almost 25% of the white dog going into the barrel in just over 12 weeks. But what was left was kind of magical. No heads left, and compared to a Michters, the Michters had nose and early taste of solvent based paint (More of Ethyllic acetate than Toluene...), but the after taste was more delicious and lingered in glory, while mine died out to quickly.
I Believe that has much to do with time. The esterification did not have time enough to form in any quantities during my short 12 weeks, while in Michters larger casks, the spirit can live for a long time without it all evaporating away. In fact, Michters taste and nose has about as much heads as my white dog. As for the tails in a peated malt, that would be a tougher one I belive. Those fusel oils would rely heavily on the charred oak to grab onto, rather than evaporating with the angels share.

Just a funny thing to share I thought, and "ageing" in 5l casks has their true positive and negative sides. I will not give it up just yet even though the angels get quite greedy with these small barrels.
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Re: Which is the better still setup for Scotch whiskey

Post by Ben »

LordL wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:49 am
I have found that by ageing in barrels, and for home use (5 Liter barrels ) the heads are not that much of an issue. That's the spirits that will head out first to the angels anyway. Like a slow distill. But, the light alcohols have a possibility to synthesize esters before they leave, wich can contribute to some quite fruity aromas.
You might pre-age in glass and test the results.



The Scots throw all their feints back in to their next runs, over time I would assume that builds up and adds flavor to the product, so you would have to run the same recipe many times to get the flavor to come up. I also think they stress their yeast a bit, cold climates [relatively] high starting gravity, and of course the indigenous yeasts. I also assume they put as much of the run into the barrel as possible, they don't throw anything away they don't have to.
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Re: Which is the better still setup for Scotch whiskey

Post by LordL »

Ben wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:12 am
LordL wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:49 am
I have found that by ageing in barrels, and for home use (5 Liter barrels ) the heads are not that much of an issue. That's the spirits that will head out first to the angels anyway. Like a slow distill. But, the light alcohols have a possibility to synthesize esters before they leave, which can contribute to some quite fruity aromas.
You might pre-age in glass and test the results.



The Scots throw all their feints back in to their next runs, over time I would assume that builds up and adds flavor to the product, so you would have to run the same recipe many times to get the flavor to come up. I also think they stress their yeast a bit, cold climates [relatively] high starting gravity, and of course the indigenous yeasts. I also assume they put as much of the run into the barrel as possible, they don't throw anything away they don't have to.
Yes, they take care of their feints, that's a way that in the long run doesn't make it hard to let go of the amount of alcohol in the tails as well, you get it in the next batch! : ) Their climate, I could never imitate i'm afraid, the yeast, yes well.. I have A whiskey yeast, but it isn't directly sourced from Lagavulin so that will be a hard one as well. But that's the fun thing with home brewing also, you try stuff, make up recepies, tweak things, if lucky, maybe improve something on the way in regards to taste or efficiency. I'd be glad if i got a drinkable smokey scotch on the first try. The second, would disappoint me if it werent drinkable. : )
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