White stuff

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whistlewetter
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White stuff

Post by whistlewetter »

I have about 3 gallons that has been sitting in quart jars for about 2 to 3 months. Some mine some made elsewehere. I looked at alll of the quart jars and there is a fine white powdery substance sitting in the bottom of several of the jars. You can turn the jar upside down and watch it float around? Any ideas as to what it may be? Both mine and the other ones get filtered through a coffee filter as it is being distilled and again after it is cut and being put into jars. If they are mine it is corn whiskey, if it is the other then that is made from sweet feed.
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still_stirrin
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Re: White stuff

Post by still_stirrin »

Possibly calcium from your tempering water. Did you use well water, or even tap water? Sometimes those minerals will precipitate out with time.

You might be able to filter it out now. Try it.
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whistlewetter
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Re: White stuff

Post by whistlewetter »

It was tap water. I have not had a problem with cloudiness so I use tap water. The calcium makes sense, I will be switching to distilled for dilution.
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Re: White stuff

Post by marquee_moon »

Doubt its calcium (or carbonate, which is the bit that precipitates out) , because its more soluble in acidic conditions than the slightly alkali that your tap water would be if you had an excess of carbonate.
If you've fermented on the grain before syphoning off into demijohns, it may be starch.
(Later edit- sorry, misread your post, didn't realise it was distillate, wouldn't be starch, but wouldn't be calcium either if its prior to watering down)
Last edited by marquee_moon on Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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pfshine
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Re: White stuff

Post by pfshine »

Its the water. Whether its calcium or other floculated junk that's in it. I use RO water to dilute mine never liked the distilled water.
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bentstick
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Re: White stuff

Post by bentstick »

Agree with pfshine it is your water, since I have switched to RO water now, not 1 issue with any thing collecting on the bottom of a jar even after setting for over yr
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whistlewetter
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Re: White stuff

Post by whistlewetter »

Thanks guys! I know distilled water is in grocery stores but I dont recall seeing RO water. Where is it available at? We use RO and Deionized water at work but they are closed systems that loop through a chemical process, nothing I would drink lol.
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still_stirrin
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Re: White stuff

Post by still_stirrin »

whistlewetter wrote:...I dont recall seeing RO water. Where is it available at?...
I'm not sure which ones, but "some" bottled water that's labelled as "spring water" has been through the RO.

Also, we have a couple of water stations that make water ($1.25 per gallon) here for public consumers if you bring your own jugs. I've brewed with it for years.

But the big box stores have RO machines you install under your kitchen sink. 1 gallon reservoir too. It's much better to drink than tap water too. Hook it up to your icemaker and you'll get clear ice cubes to boot. Only catch...the unit is around $175. But, "buy once, cry once".
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carbohydratesn
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Re: White stuff

Post by carbohydratesn »

Distilled and reverse osmosis filtered water are both good for this. RO is slightly less pure than distilled water. They will both work fine for this.
wtfdskin
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Re: White stuff

Post by wtfdskin »

I have access to an endless supply of microfiltered RO water. Am I understanding correctly that RO water is good for proofing but not for fermentation because RO's remove nearly all the minerals which are good for fermentation?
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dstaines
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Re: White stuff

Post by dstaines »

wtfdskin, yes that's correct on both counts

whistlewetter, some grocery stores, mega marts and liquors stores have those machines out front where you can fill up a jug of water for a quarter or 35 cents per gallon. Those usually have an option to dispense RO water, which may be labeled as de-ionized water.
I buy all my liquor at the hardware store.
whistlewetter
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Re: White stuff

Post by whistlewetter »

Ok, the run I did Friday already has stuff floating in it. I used distilled water and made good cuts. Any ideas what the hell is floating around?
I have filtered the other stuff 3 times. After a few days whatever it is comes back.
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HDNB
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Re: White stuff

Post by HDNB »

I had this once too... no real good answer came then, so i'm posting to see what other feedback comes.

mine was post-distillation (low wines) not after any cuts or dilution. looked like white fluffy snowflakes. they went back into solution if shaken up. may have had slightly blue flecks at the edges.

they would not filter out, meaning if i ran them through a filter cloth, there was nothing noticable in the filter.

they collected at the bottom, not the top.

one possible answer i got was "fats", like corn oil etc...which i would buy into...except i'd think fat would float.

I re-ran it as a low wine, in a 1.5x distillation with fresh ferment and the result was crystal clear and good.
I finally quit drinking for good.

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Re: White stuff

Post by Appalachia-Shiner »

I have been following this thread since the question was first asked. I had the same thing happen once or twice; I assume that it may have been some sort of corn oil deposit like HDNB said. Maybe included too much Tails?
I also reran the jars (Like HDNB) and they disappeared in the new distillate.
Not sure what it is, but it was NOT the water...I use limestone spring water right out of my own spring which is probably nearly ideal.
I chalked it up to some sort of "Newby" mistake.
Thanks to this website, I have not had any problems since I found it last year.
whistlewetter
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Re: White stuff

Post by whistlewetter »

The 1st post I made was in reference to a corn and barley mash but this one is just a sugar mash. They were distilled in two different stills. It is bothering the hell out of me. When I pour it through a coffee filter it clears up nicely. After it sits for 3 or 4 days you can start to see little "stuff" floating around. The longer it sits the more forms. On my last sugar batch I made good cuts. I collected in pint jars and removed two quarts of what I deemed heads. I did include about 2- 2.5 pints of early tails, the lowest being 82 proof. The smell just started to change and they still tasted good. I made the tighter cuts because I was hoping to fix whatever was floating in the grain product, so, I was very disappointed that after 5 days I can see "stuff" forming. I wonder if using a charcoal filter would help??
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Re: White stuff

Post by yakattack »

Don't use a charcoal filter. You'll strip off all the flavor. What no one seems to be picking up on is environment and equipment. What are you collecting in? Mason jars? Other jars? How and when were they last washed? Dishwasher or by hand?

Some soaps (specially the all natural) leave a residual layer on whatever it is your washing if not rinses well in hot water. The likker could be breaking it down and that's what your seeing.

Could also be you might want to give your rig a quick vinigar boil and then a water boil and see if that is contributing to it.

What is your procedures? How do you sanitize?

I hand was all and then they get triple rinsed. I used to use starsan but that's expensive. Now I just use some forrs and early heads and dilute then down. Makes a great sanitizer.

Tails can have a floating white gunk it it, bit generally you will see that in the jars after a day or two and can exclude them. Little tip the cold helps bring them out. So of you have a few jars of tails that you want to use then stick them.I'm the fridge for a day or two and see if they start to form.

My bet is the jars themselves and having residue tho.

Yak
HDNB wrote: The trick here is to learn what leads to a stalled mash....and quit doing that.
whistlewetter
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Re: White stuff

Post by whistlewetter »

I collect in Mason/Ball jars that I have washed one of two ways, sometimes they go into the dishwasher and sometimes I wash by hand. The grain mash for example was originally in 4 quart sized jars. Two of which had "stuff" floating in them. I filtered through a coffee filter, they came out clear so I mixed all 4 quarts into a gallon jug. After a few days "stuff" started to form again in the gallon jug. So, again, I filtered the gallon jug through coffee filters into two half gallon glass jars. After sitting in those two glass jars for a few days, "stuff" started to form in them again. I have filtered them again through coffee filters and are watching them. Each time it appears that there is less "stuff." They have seen three differnet glass containers, it is possible that there is some soap residue in all of them I guess.

Now as far as the still...I have just recently built the one I am currently using. It is a 15.5 gal keg with a 2' copper column made from 2" pipe. I did a 2 gallon of water with 1 gallon of vinegar clean, did a 5 gallon sac run and have done three normal batch runs. After each run the keg gets rinsed out until I am pouring out clear water and the column is flushed with water. I then store the keg upside down so whatever is left can drain out. This still has only ran sugar washes(since I have owned it). The corn product was ran in a stock pot set up on my stove.

I am going to run all my jars through the disher washer again with no soap, that way they get a good rinsing. I will stay away from soaps for now and just do good hot water rinses.
All the info in this thread has been good so far so please continue to throw ideas out there. I will try to narrow down one thing at a time until something seems to make a difference. If we find the solution I will be sure to post it here so that this may be helpful to others. Thanks for all the input so far, this problem is driving me nuts.


Tails can have a floating white gunk it it, bit generally you will see that in the jars after a day or two and can exclude them. Little tip the cold helps bring them out. So of you have a few jars of tails that you want to use then stick them.I'm the fridge for a day or two and see if they start to form.

After re-reading your post Yak, I think this may be hitting on something. The corn corn product was kept in the garage where it gets cold. I can totally buy into the tails theory here. Maybe I am seeing less "stuff" due to the product not being as cold. Now, the sugar product I know contained 2-2.5 jars of tails that I tasted and approved of after airing them out 24hrs. Maybe before adding them I should have placed them in the fridge for a couple of days.
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Re: White stuff

Post by yakattack »

Yup. Its was cold here in the winter and all my stuff is in the garage. Low wines included. And I got the white gunk from the low wines all the time. They are never in my finish jars tho as I don't go deep into the tails on blending.

If your getting them in the hearts it means your getting a bit of smearing. Try this. Next spirit run you do, when you get to the hearts turn the heat down just a bit more than you normally do.

What is your heat source BTW.
HDNB wrote: The trick here is to learn what leads to a stalled mash....and quit doing that.
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Re: White stuff

Post by whistlewetter »

For the corn it was the stove top, for the sugar and from now on I am using propane exclusively.

Yak, I have a warm fuzzy feeling that you have solved this. I will keep you posted.
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Re: White stuff

Post by yakattack »

whistlewetter wrote:For the corn it was the stove top, for the sugar and from now on I am using propane exclusively.

Yak, I have a warm fuzzy feeling that you have solved this. I will keep you posted.
Sounds good. :p

Yak
HDNB wrote: The trick here is to learn what leads to a stalled mash....and quit doing that.
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Mikey-moo
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Re: White stuff

Post by Mikey-moo »

I got the same little white snowflakes in the low wines from a brandy strip run I did list year. I went deep into the tails and I hope that's all it is :-)
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HDNB
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Re: White stuff

Post by HDNB »

Hmm... this excerpt from http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p7306170

would explain light, white, fluffy, bottom dwelling crystalline structures that go back into solution easy. would also explain precipitating out at cooler temperature.



"have a high
content of dissolved salts and therefore does not
244 J.E. Murtagh
cause as much scaling and blocking of distillation
columns as may occur using molasses."

damn, it would be nice to duplicate and test...but my notes don't really have anything specific that was a bunch different from any other run...
I finally quit drinking for good.

now i drink for evil.
dan_buddy
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Re: White stuff

Post by dan_buddy »

Could this happen to distillent that hasent been wated down ?
My wash is a canned peach and sugar and do stilling in moths ago and only noticing it now . It's 38% abv and only ran once
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Mikey-moo
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Re: White stuff

Post by Mikey-moo »

Yeah that's about the same as mine. Run once till well into tails. About 40% abv
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Re: White stuff

Post by rager »

my input is this, ive seen the white stuff. for me it was when I was still learning and cut some whiskey with tap water and I got some of the white flakey floating stuff. now I only use distilled water from the grocery store with no problems

I do also believe keeping your collection jars clean is key too.

I usually just rinse my jars with hot water unless I know they need to be washed. after washing and rinsing with hot water I set them upside down to dry and let the water run out.
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Re: White stuff

Post by Rrmuf »

… glad I ran into this thread. I love this site.
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