Better Method if you absolutely HAVE to use Turbo Yeast

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Re: Better Method if you absolutely HAVE to use Turbo Yeast

Postby homebrewer007 » Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:55 pm

My intent was not to offend you even in the least, in fact it was quite the opposite. My intention was to educate and provide insight into published data which has been researched for decades. Yes, I am a brewer, but fermentation is fermentation no matter how you look at. The same process is taking place scientifically no matter your end product.

The "name dropping" was simply citing my sources as I was asked to do in a prior post. The main point I was trying to make was simply data exsists that has been studied and proven in the industry. It is available to those who wish to study it and improve their craft. These are trusted professionals who have conducted the exact research surrounding this exact debate.

I am sure you are making a fine product, and the fact that you share your knowledge on a public forum for those who wish to learn is admirable. My argument was simply in the professional distillery industry (3 local artisan distilleries in my area) have offered their insight as well. They will only use quality ingredients designed for the industry because it is what produces the highest quality product, and yes they are cleaning up in whiskey comps. When you look at the effecancy and flavors derived from quality ingredients you will end up with a quality product. If you use poor quality ingredients no matter how solid your procedure is you are limited by what you've started with. The same would be said for food. I could have the best chicken catchatori recipe in the world but if my ingredients aren't the best I could get my hands on my dish would simply be nothing more than sustenance and the flavors would not pop according to the style of the dish.
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Re: Better Method if you absolutely HAVE to use Turbo Yeast

Postby ShineonCrazyDiamond » Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:23 pm

Everyone of your posts since you came has had a cereal box in the frame. It must be the best equipment, or ingredient, because someone made it in a lab just for that reason, right? Kinda like professional store bought beef, or perfect looking store bought apples? When in reality, profit eventually succeeds basic quality, and then we're convinced it can't be done without a special tool?

Ever malted your own grain? Ever wonder why ripe bananas don't make a great bread?

I'm just suggesting that you suspend your pre conceived notions about fermenting for a little while and do more reading than talking.

Ever tasted whiskey that tasted straight cherries, with only corn and wheat? Only to trace it back to a crazy infection that you didn't calculate?

It's not beer. You look into a dunder thread yet? Go ahead. Bet you can't touch the complexity that you get in your rum.

I did enjoy the bit about yeast names and such. Thanks for that. But go a round on a table like this before you say that you can't make a "professional product" without the ingredients that can be purchased at your friendly neighborhood home brew shop ( which I am at every week spending tons of money). But my guy will tell you before anyone else to toast your own grain, make your own beer gun, and how to do for your self - without sacrificing quality.
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Re: Better Method if you absolutely HAVE to use Turbo Yeast

Postby homebrewer007 » Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:57 pm

Absolutely as he should! That's a great shopkeep. I post DIY videos and articles on my shop FB page everyday. Everything from making your own stir plate to harvesting and slanting your own yeast cultures. The reality is though that no everyone in the hobby has either the time nor expertise to DIY projects. If you malt and toast your own grain that is fantastic. My only comment on that is I want to know where that grain came from, if it's organic, what the sulfide content is, and most importantly when it was harvested. I won't keep grain on the shelf that is over 6 months old even though all my grains are nitro purged and vacuum sealed as soon as they hit my floor. Same with all my yeast strains. They go directly into the fridge at 38* and get pulled at 4 months. My hops are treated the same. The point is I know where each one of my ingredients comes from and the whole seller is often times the producer/manufacturer.

Nothing to include our yeast strains are lab created. The yeast strains are cultures that were indigenous to the regions of the distilleries, breweries, and wineries from which they originated. They have simply been lab tested under many years of experimentation specifically for this industry. The professional craft brewery and craft distilling industries are massive and the research they pay for thankfully spills over becoming available for the hobbyist. There is not a pro brewer or pro distilled I have met who didn't get his start at home first. Surprisingly the professional industry still greatly supports the home brewers/distillers and will offer any information they can. I often have local brew masters, lab techs, and distillers into the shop and for club meetings to host classes to educate the hobiests. The biggest thing we need to remember is it's the exact same process we are doing just on a larger scale.

The yeasts have simply been cultured to gather the pure strain at 100 billion cells per vial and any wild cultures removed. There is no difference between the yeast artisan distillers and craft breweries use vs what is sitting in my fridge. In fact often times my local breweries and distilleries will call to place an order of yeast they use as a house strain. They just build huge starters and re-pitch up to 5 generations before taking another slant for QA. We all have the same whole seller and often times we will partner with our local distillery to order product at the same time to cut shipping costs.

As for detecting off flavors in whiskey, yes I'm not a fan of infected fermentations. As a BJCP judge I judge all food and beverages according to the style guidelines. I also spend a lot of time pairing foods with beer and whiskey and cigars and pipe tobacco with spirits. My typical go to for whiskey is scotch, and usually I drink Balblair or Deanston 12 unless I have a bottle from one of my local distilleries. My goal is to perfect a product which would be in style to be a clone to any of those just as my goal when brewing is to clone my favorite beer of style from the brewery that created it. I look at the water table of the region from where that facility is located as well as look at what their water treatment and mash PH is. From there I build my RO water to match that water table. That goes back to starting with the best quality ingredients I can possibly get.

As with DIY coffee roasting I am a huge advocate of home hop gardens and malting your own grains. Not many of my customers here in a larger city have that possibility though. If a customer were to approach me about malting his own grains I would recommend a book by John Palmer called "Malt" and give him the contact info of Briess or Wyermann since we know that is good quality grain grown to industry standards with a rigorous QA selection.
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Re: Better Method if you absolutely HAVE to use Turbo Yeast

Postby bilgriss » Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:52 am

007,

I think you missed SCD's point, which in essence IS his point.

Many of your points are accurate, particularly in the beer industry. I'm a long time (30+ yr) beer brewer, and I get it. But a good bit of your rhetoric is industry-standard practice, which plays out really well when your objective is standardization, predictability, repeatability and following guidelines. The essence of home distillation sort of starts with NOT following the guidelines, experimentation, going way outside of standard practice, and discovering the potential in those wayward jaunts.

I promise you, and many here with years' more experience than me will be able to corroborate, that sanitation and the best base malt will not be the single path to the best bourbon.

I do appreciate your input though, and in the spirit of lively discussion, I encourage you to keep the dialog going any time you have something to add.
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Re: Better Method if you absolutely HAVE to use Turbo Yeast

Postby Kabundokan » Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:26 pm

I use turbo yeast for making vodka. Yes if used for rum or whiskey it will just taste like molten plastic added to your drink. I use clarifiers with liquid carbon. I get about 15% to 18% abv after fermentation.
Distillation wise, I use a reflux still that produces about 94% to 96% alc. in one run. Water it down to 45% and filter through carbon. I add glycerine to smoothen the end product. NOW don't ask why I add glycerine, it's my choice to use. Any one can do what ever they want to improve the smoothness and perfection accordingly to their tastebuds.

If you want a perfect product, (or near perfect) then don't do shortcuts, do it the proper way, which i know there are a lot of ways to do.

Turbo yeast is good for making high quantity mash but poor taste because of too much nutrients.
I even compared turbo yeast with another brand of turbo yeast. There is no difference but the cost. Turbo yeast is 7$cad and the other brand is 10$cad. They both perform the same. Ended same day. Both have the same abv at 18%.
The taste of both brands are the same after distillation.

If you really want a nice neutral alcohol then use what your mother use for making bread and as a nutrient, tomato paste.
After fermentation transfer the good stuff to another container and leave the bottom crap. DO NOT DISTILL YET. Wait for another day to let the crap settle to the bottom. DON'T LET GREED GET YOU, DON'T transfer the crap that settled down the bottom of the container.
In terms of distillation, use a reflux still with copper and steel rashigs packing in the column. Or distill it twise or 3 times. A thumper would do a good job as well.

I know someone probably covered my thoughts already but I'm here to remind anyone who use turbo yeast.

Don't look for simple answers from internet, sometimes you have to find the right answers by mistakes.
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Re: Better Method if you absolutely HAVE to use Turbo Yeast

Postby sugar glut » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:04 pm

I agree wit the OP that TY can make clean distillate. Just don't use as much as the directions recommend, and only go to a max of 15%. Any wash will pong, except for grapes, if you go too high. Vodka, schnapps, gin, and all botanicals demand a very clean wash. Ruskies use potatoes because they don't have sugar. Add a tablespoon, but no more, of black-strap. It contains the hard to get organic phosphates, and trace metals.

My Hindu neighbor uses his sacred palm jaggery. Ferments OK, but you've never smelled anything like it.

I can make a very good whisky just using sugar and TY. I get the complex phenols from malts (Beard's) and West Australian peat by high-% alcohol distilling separately. The essences are then added with the oak chip soakers. The method transfers only the lightest/shortest phenols which gives the best taste, IMHO.
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Re: Better Method if you absolutely HAVE to use Turbo Yeast

Postby PetePetosa » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:56 pm

Tried the Pure Turbo Yeast, with carbon and clarify crap. It is actually not too bad, compared to others. It says 7 days, but it took 12 because I kept it in a 62 degree room. Only 13 lbs of sugar in a 6 gallon wash, instead of 18 like the others. I mixed a quart of my sour mash wine in with it during distillation, gave it a bit of corn flavor. Distilled quick in a reflux with copper and ceramic beads in the column.

New at this, about 15 runs into it, and I like it a lot. Lots to learn. Trying to recreate my 2nd ever batch, it was a 24hr turbo that came with the still. It tasted great. Thought to myself, how do all these guys make such bad shine??? They must have to try at it!! Haha.. well, I found out. But, I just found some more of the 24hr, going to recreate all the ferment conditions and times. Maybe I will luck out again!!

Happy New Years!!
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