my wash turns into vinegar

[mississippimoon]

im new to the whole art of fermentation and distillation...
basically i've made six mini batches and so far all have come out yielding acetic acid (vinegar) instead of alcohol.
-each batch was made and fermented in a 16 oz glass bottle
-each batch had a balloon with a pinhole in it over the top, and then submerged entirley in water to prevent o2 leaks.
-i made each batch in small measurements, something like this: 1 and 1/2 cup sugar/molasses, packet of baking yeast, 3 cups water
-each batch fermented about 60 hours
-i dont think fermentation was a problem, all batches bubbled like crazy for 2 days straight

does anyone know what i did wrong? did i let it ferment too long?

[rad14701]

Welcome to the HD forums, mississippimoon...

I doubt that you're going to get much debugging help for you 1 pint ferments... Try a ferment of a minimum volume of 1 gallon (4 liters) and see if you have better luck... The parent site has several calculators, including a sugar wash calculator, that you may find helpful... With 1 gallon of water, 3 cups of sugar will have a 10.6% ABV potential yield... Using 3.5 cups would be about 12.3% and 4 cups would be about 14.1%... You also need nutrients, which your molasses contained...

Not really sure how you fit 3 cups (24oz) of water in a 16oz bottle... A wash with 1.5 cups of sugar in 3 cups of water would have a 42.3% "potential" ABV, without the molasses... The yeast would die at or before 14%, however... The more excess sugar, the sooner the yeast will die of osmotic stress... That 1.5 cups of sugar in 48 oz water (3 pints) would equate to 14.1% without the molasses... Something tells me your measurements are a bit off...

We've got plenty of good information here in the forums, as well as on the parent site, for you to learn from... We're here to help get you headed in the right direction...

Good luck and good reading...

[mississippimoon]

thanks for the help.

i'm about to experiment with a new recipe from scratch. may or may not work. i'll let yall know.

1 and 1/4 liter water
1 cup brown sugar
1 cup corn meal
fleischmanns yeast

[Dnderhead]

that's about 8% not bad .

[mississippimoon]

oh my lord, this is frustrating...

so i used the recipe i just listed. i boil the corn meal awhile to convert the starch. pitch the yeast, add all ingredients into an empty Soco glass bottle. i put a balloon on the opening, make one little pinhole for the co2 to escape. then to make sure absolutley no air leaks in, i submerge the entire bottle in water. it begins to bubble away, and i got excited. this was all done around 10 pm last night. ok so this afternoon its still bubblin a bit. i figure ill give it a quick taste to see if there's any alcohol goin and if i'm finally successful....

well i wasn't. at least, i dont think i was. once again, i am haunted by the taste of what i believe to be vinegar. now i know my batch was not done fermenting, but it was a relatively small batch and i wanted to see if i was having some success or just spinnin my wheels again. anyways, that was the 8th batch ive made and my 8th failure. all so far have turned into vinegar. my question(s) are has anyone else had this happen to them? and why do you think this happened?

i took so much care to make sure no o2 could leak in. in fact, there was literally no way it could have, since the bottle was submerged in water and only co2 could escape via pinhole in the balloon. im almost positive it has nothing to do with not having proper nutrients in my wash. i mean i used enriched corn meal, and the brown sugar has nutrients as well. is it maybe that my yeast is metabolizing the alcohol? im using fleischmanns yeast, so i dont think thats the problem. im very frustrated right now.......

[Dnderhead]

you sure that it is turning to vinegar? not just "dry" (sample,, diluted vinegar then compare to a dry wine)
one more thing boiling the corn will not convert starch to sugar, just releases the starch,

[mississippimoon]

all i can say is i hope maybe it is just "dry". i havent thrown the corn meal wash out, im still letting it ferment with the hopes you're right. and btw thank you for the fast and informative responses Dnderhead.

[rad14701]

To be honest, most washes/mashes are far less susceptible to infections or turing to vinegar than one might think... During most of the fermentation cycle the CO2 layer fends off the nasties and once fermentation is completed the ABV can be a good deterrent... I've never had a wash or mash turn to vinegar, even when waiting months to distill...

[isaac338]

I'm confused as to why you're submerging the whole thing in water. It seems elaborate. Will a regular airlock not fit into your bottles? I make yeast starters for cider in beer growlers and I can wedge a standard airlock in the hole with a bit of persuasion.

An airlock is only a couple bucks, too..

Can anyone else taste it for you and tell you what they think the flavour is?

[mississippimoon]

you submerge it in water so absolutely no air can leak in and also to let you know that its fermenting because you will see co2 bubbling up. and i cant find any airlocks near by b/c i am at school. the final verdict on this wash will be decided tomorrow. it should be done by then.

[blanikdog]

... b/c i am at school.

Hmmmmmmm.

blanik

[mississippimoon]

dont act like you wouldnt do the same! no in all seriousness, i just find the whole process fascinating and just very fun, albeit frustrating so far.

[Captain Morgan]

you submerge it in water so absolutely no air can leak in and also to let you know that its fermenting because you will see co2 bubbling up. and i cant find any airlocks near by b/c i am at school. the final verdict on this wash will be decided tomorrow. it should be done by then.

I've never heard of such a thing! What stops water seeping in? CO2 escaping thats what. The same CO2 escaping thats stopping the water getting in obviously stops the air getting in when not submerged in water. It sounds like an unnecessary step, especially when something is obviously going wrong somewhere.

If you make sure everything is sterile, use the recipe stated then I'd wager that what you consider to be vinegar is just a dry wash.

Good luck

[rad14701]

Just so we're clear on this, you are of legal drinking age, mississippimoon...??? If we give advice to someone not of a legal drinking age it's a whole different level of wrong...

As noted above, you really don't need to put the balloon in water as the pinholes are self sealing against air getting in...

[mississippimoon]

a common and usually fair misconception is that just b/c I'm "in school", means I'm under the age of 21. i should've specified, grad school student and of age. definitely no harm in giving me advice.

[manu de hanoi]

try starting your washes at ph 5 using lemon juice or sulphuric acid. it protects well from infection.

[rad14701]

a common and usually fair misconception is that just b/c I'm "in school", means I'm under the age of 21. i should've specified, grad school student and of age. definitely no harm in giving me advice.

Thanks... Just looking for some verification and now at least it's documented that we asked... You aren't the first college student here and surely won't be the last...

[Scrubby]

So did you ever get it to work?

[cede]

Last visited:Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:37 pm
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