Starch Conversion trouble

[Keyser Soze]

I could use some help on this if someone has a moment. I started my first all grain today. Boiled 2 gals water with 2.8 lbs cracked corn and .7 lbs rye. 2 hours,added a small amount od 2 row crushed barley malt to keep it liquid. Cooled to 154 deg f and added 1.4 lbas of crushed barley malt. held at 154 for two hours. Iodine test showed the clear liquid on top of the corn to be devoid of starch. Mixed it up a little ( still really thick) and tested again and the iodine shoed a lot of starch.

Any hints on how I can get more to convert?? It looks like a cup on top may be good and the rest not.

Thanks, E

[Dnderhead]

OK , don't mix it up ,, you just want the clear liquid on top. that your looking at on bottom is protein and will show blue/black specks.

[img]http://i303.photobucket.com/albums ... .jpg[/img][img]http://i303.photobucket.com/albums ... .jpg[/img]

[Dnderhead]

I should have said when you test do not mix it up,, did you stir the malt in?

[Keyser Soze]

Thanks. Am I to understand then I did it right? Not to sound dumb, but what kind of usable yeild should I get from that amount of material? This was a test to see if I could do it,next I buy a big ol pot as it were, and make more, but how much mash do you have to make to get 5 gals to run in the still? Can I ferment this whole batch ( on the grain).

It just seems like a huge amount of grain and water to get a cup or two out of.

Thanks D.

Yes, I did stir the barley malt in very well, I ground it finer than just cracked, but not to flour. I used a food processor, so husks and all went in. And I did maintain 150 -155 deg f the whole 2 hours.

[Dnderhead]

allot of water gits stuck in the grain, so some ferment and distill on the grain, others press the grain, some of the "BIG" boys use centrifuges.
then I have my own way (I just have to be different), drain off all I can git, then add hot water to pot stir then drain that off to "cook" the next batch with.
this recovers most of what whould be lost in the grain. an old way was to ferment on the grain,,distill on the grain then add part of the stillage
to the next ferment.this whould recover some of the starches that where missed as there methods were not efficient.

[Hack]

Your post makes it sound like you cooled to 154 after adding the malt. That can kill your enzymes. The temp will drop some when you add the malt. The neat trick is to cool it to some temperature before you add the malt so that the temp drop from adding the malt puts you right around 154.

[Keyser Soze]

I had the mash at about 159-162 somewhere and it did drop to about 141 f after I stirred it, so I added a little heat till it came back up to 151 and shut it off. It climbed to about 158 0r so and settled back to 155. I watched it for about two hours, when it dropped to 150 I heated it up o 154-155 and stopped. Iwas trying to follow all the great directions from the main site and from the posts so it would work well.

I did pitch the yeast last night , so I'll try what you suggest on the next pot, which may be tonight. Then I'll just add it to the fermenter when it cools to 70 and fill it up like that till the big pot comes.

Thanks Husker.
E

[trthskr4]

Corn is hard to convert compared to other grains but all grain will be lower in yields than washes with sugar. Don't be discouraged. You said you boiled it at around 154 *F. You need to get corn up around 185* for that short amount of time. 155-160 is fine for overnight cooking.

[Keyser Soze]

Corn is hard to convert compared to other grains but all grain will be lower in yields than washes with sugar. Don't be discouraged. You said you boiled it at around 154 *F. You need to get corn up around 185* for that short amount of time. 155-160 is fine for overnight cooking

I did acually boil the corn for about 2 hours, with the rye mixed in. I let it cool to about 160 before I put the malt in, and stirring it it lowered the mash temp to about 140. then I added heat to get it back to the 154 range. I'm sorry, but I ma be a little disjointed in my description of how I did it.
I read a post after all my other questions, and I understand I was likely a the highest level of grains to water that I should go (2lbs/gal) and it would have made more sense to start at something like 1.25lbs/gal to better observe and easier drain the grain from the wort. I like the idea of fermenting on the grain for the flavor, but I don't want to make50 lbs of corn to do 5 gal worth of mash either.
I'll get better with practice, (and with all the help I get) but this is too much fun to get too discouraged at.

Thanks trthskr !

[Dnderhead]

just for giggels,,, check you SG of what you have.

also how big is your pot you have it in?

[Keyser Soze]

I made a really rookie mistake after got it into my 6.5 gal fermentor. I forgot to get the SG before I pitched the yeast, but the fermenter is too shallow to drop the tester in it anyhow. I made it in a 3 gal stock pot 4 ttl lbs grain and malt, but less than 20% malt in the mix, and 2.5 gals water total. I also know the pH is higher than 4.4, but my test strips are the ones used for wine, so they are below range 5.2.

It is still bubbling like crazy, started to smell like rotten eggs, so I added a tsp of Fermax yeast nutrient and it smells a lot better now.

I'll check later if I can and get the current sg.

[Dnderhead]

to late but whould have drained off what I could,, then made another with the sparg water. That is how I make my off the grain ferments.
it don't pay for one ferment but in your case I thank it whould have "rescued" your mash.

[Keyser Soze]

SG came out before at 1.014.
Slowed a little, but still going. I'll probably wind up making another lighter mash, then I'll try your method and sparge it, after it cools a bit and add it to the last one. It still smell good, so I think it should still out ok. Future mash attempts may be in a bigger pot, cause this last one took too long for what I have in the fermentor so far. I'd rather make enough mash to charge the still twice, and let it clear a litlle longer, than try to make smaller batches and "step" mash them. Less time mashing, more time stillin'.

[Dnderhead]

What I do is, make my mash, drain off beer,,, the fill the pot with the grain with hot water, then use that water to make the next mash with.
it just saves the "sugars" in the old grain with out diluting the beer. basically just "rinsing" the sugar out of the old grain since this water is weak I use
it for the next mash. Im not set up to distill on the grain so I do off the grain ferments and distilling.