What still to built or buy?

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Greig56
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Re: What still to built or buy?

Post by Greig56 »

Whew, so much reading to do..!!! So I'm a noob here, I see the pic at the first of this sticky and it has a big X accross itself and described as not efficient or can't be centered. It's what I've seen a number of places and fort or unfortunately what I built from numerous examples 'out there' before I found HD here! Right now it's what I'm stuck with till I have time and $$ to amend things. A couple questions then about php?id=4033&mode=view, the drawing of the VM column just a bit below it. For all intentions per say it's near the same as what's X'd out and I'll say so tentatively! Some questions about it then!
-Why in the VM title square, does it say in red type to vent the top of the column not to seal shut!!! Is that only to mean to allow vapours to mingle with the condenser coils?
-There's a reducer inline where it-OP turns down. Why is this here, is this to start to collect more vapour or?? Dunno!
-My biggest point of querie here [and noticed this in a number of points-see I've been doing some reading!] is why would there be a valve be it gate or ball, or at all here? Why would you want to have a valve here? To shut off the vent of vapour here makes no sense, kinda shutting off what your system is putting out unless to build up temps within,,, control of premature disjaculation of ridding yourself of what there is in your foreshots that you certainly don't want to keep. I can't figure it!
-To amend and add a coil above the OP T fitting where there's a theremometer and connecting it to the liebig water flow mightn't be hard to do later but.. a wee bit later!
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still_stirrin
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Re: What still to built or buy?

Post by still_stirrin »

Greig56 wrote:...Why in the VM title square, does it say in red type to vent the top of the column not to seal shut!!! Is that only to mean to allow vapours to mingle with the condenser coils?
The reflux condenser is open so that the column doesn't pressurize if the VM valve is closed. The reflux condenser should condense all of the vapors so they flow back down the column. At 100% reflux, there is no product take off and a sealed condenser could result in it building pressure. The vent is a safety feature such that even if your condenser can't knock down all of the vapor, the vent would show itself and you could regulate the heat input downward until the condenser can handle the vapor rate.
Greig56 wrote:...There's a reducer inline where it-OP turns down. Why is this here, is this to start to collect more vapour or?? Dunno!
The reducer allows the vapor tube to reduce to the Liebig vapor tube diameter. Keep in mind that the vapor will speed up when that happens and that will result in faster vapor velocity which can make the Liebig less effective, or at least requiring a longer vapor tube inside the Liebig. Ideally, the diameter of the column and the vapor output line would be the same, and the Liebig vapor tube would be as near to the same diameter as practical. Too much reduction and you'll get flow restriction, or possibly some vapor "burping" out of the end of the Liebig.
Greig56 wrote:...My biggest point of querie here [and noticed this in a number of points-see I've been doing some reading!] is why would there be a valve be it gate or ball, or at all here? Why would you want to have a valve here? To shut off the vent of vapour here makes no sense, kinda shutting off what your system is putting out unless to build up temps within,,, control of premature disjaculation of ridding yourself of what there is in your foreshots that you certainly don't want to keep. I can't figure it!
OK, so it's obvious that you DON'T understand that the VM still head is a "vapor managed" reflux column, meaning that your regulate the vapor flow (out of the product condenser) to control the reflux ratio...the percentage of vapor condensed and returned down the column to the percentage of vapor flowing up the column.

This is all a part of the "required reading" that you obviously haven't completed yet. Don't just look at the pretty pictures....READ the threads. There is valuable information in them.

The parent site has some very good descriptions of the different types of stills too. Look there as well.
ss
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Re: What still to built or buy?

Post by xatpmats »

Was thinking of picking up this still from ebay. I have no wish to build my own at the current time and this happens to be the right size and for me the right price. Can anyone tell me why this one may be good/bad idea? Cheers. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/30L-Copper-S ... 1531629492" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
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Re: What still to built or buy?

Post by rad14701 »

xatpmats wrote:Was thinking of picking up this still from ebay. I have no wish to build my own at the current time and this happens to be the right size and for me the right price. Can anyone tell me why this one may be good/bad idea? Cheers. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/30L-Copper-S ... 1531629492" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Don't squander that much money on such an inferior still...!!! Seriously...!!! You could build your own for less that half that...

The thumper is too small... The flake stand (worm in a bucket, is too small... And it most likely has synthetic seals that aren't safe... You can, and should, do better...
xatpmats

Re: What still to built or buy?

Post by xatpmats »

Thanks rad. I will wait and try to build something after some more research.
xatpmats

Re: What still to built or buy?

Post by xatpmats »

I came across a beer keg and 2 20l brewing containers on my travels today for free from a client.........score.
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Re: What still to built or buy?

Post by Greig56 »

What am I running here??
I can't seem to get a decent answer as to whether this still I have is a pot or version of a reflex still! -This is NOT my still as I can't seem to shrink what pics I do have of my own still but this pic is the closest I can come up with for the type of still I have!
However MY still is 2ft of 3" under another 2ft of 1 1/2" which vents out to an 18" Liebig that's 1' dia over 1/2"..
I'm thinking I want to run some flavour washes, whiskey or rums!

Is this still of mine a Pot or type of Reflex? This is the closest pic I can whip up to ask what I'm running!
Two runs done thus far!
http://www.olympicdistillers.com/moonsh ... urself-kit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
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still_stirrin
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Re: What still to built or buy?

Post by still_stirrin »

Greig56 wrote:What am I running here??....Is this still of mine a Pot or type of Reflex? This is the closest pic I can whip up to ask what I'm running!
http://www.olympicdistillers.com/moonsh ... urself-kit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
If your still is like the one in the link you provided...it is a potstill. It has a vapor path that comes off the boiler directly to the product condenser (a Liebig condenser in the case of the link).

A REFLUX still has another condenser which creates reflux (condensing vapors returned back down the column towards the boiler). And please don't call it "reflex" because that's not correct...and it sounds dumb.

Again, I suggest you go to the parent site and do a lot more reading. It'll help you understand what you've got and what to do with it.
ss
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Re: What still to built or buy?

Post by rad14701 »

Greig56 wrote:What am I running here??
I can't seem to get a decent answer as to whether this still I have is a pot or version of a reflex still! -This is NOT my still as I can't seem to shrink what pics I do have of my own still but this pic is the closest I can come up with for the type of still I have!
However MY still is 2ft of 3" under another 2ft of 1 1/2" which vents out to an 18" Liebig that's 1' dia over 1/2"..
I'm thinking I want to run some flavour washes, whiskey or rums!

Is this still of mine a Pot or type of Reflex? This is the closest pic I can whip up to ask what I'm running!
Two runs done thus far!
http://www.olympicdistillers.com/moonsh ... urself-kit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
If you don't know what you have you shouldn't even have made the two runs you've made because it's hard to know how to safely and effectively run something when you don't know what it is... Slow down and get some serious research under your belt... We want you to be both safe and successful, not a statistic...
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Re: What still to built or buy?

Post by Greig56 »

I fabricated the prototype I have from articles I found like the example I have here from olympic after finding it was abso next to freakin' impossible to have someone add the word Canada onto the bottom of an address box..... Then what prices I faced for something I liked became waaay too unreasonable! She who must be obeyed had given me a short window of grace to spend a wee chunk of change[my portion!] that came from Heaven-see God is both Great and Benevolent on occasion! So after I found some shiney copper-and mesh for a steal at the recycler's the game was on to build Something Wonderful!
End result, it was 95% built THEN I found this site for brainstorming both my questions and education on the ways and means! About that same time I precluded myself and put two batches down to a pri come carboy. Nothing like a trial by fire!

At the moment I've done two batches -a brandy and a corn meal/liquid barley malt/sugar whiskey mix, which I've primed both with some JD oak++, a kiss of honey, a few other touches and the coup-de-gras was a hint of EMU cream sherry-in both!! I did the freezer cycle for 4 days about two weeks ago and have just filtered it. I tell you after the hint of sherry it was/is all could do not to crack it any further than I did on filtering mind it was a short wobble from the garage!

Yes I have done a bit of priming and reading. I'll do a good bit more!! My last priming got me a Wheat Germ with Cornflakes wash for my troubles. Yes I think I've added a bit too much sugar to it so won't add so much next time! -Next Time!
-I still can't figure why but the OGrav after a week showed a lesser number[normal enough!] then a week later on transferring to my primer my hydrometer near bounced out of the pail and next-to laid on it's side!!!...............!! It's still bubbling away thru the airlock! After some more reading I don't think I'll let it work out as far as it could if just to keep the yeast from overpowering things!!
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Re: What still to built or buy?

Post by still_stirrin »

Greig56 wrote:....I still can't figure why but the OGrav after a week showed a lesser number....then a week later on transferring to my primer(y) my hydrometer near(ly) bounced out of the pail and next-to laid on it's side....
It's obviously "operator error". You must've misread the gravity reading a week into the ferment. Or, you didn't correct for temperature...which I doubt would make a significant difference in the reading. I suspect the former, instead.
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Re: What still to built or buy?

Post by Angel_Kefka »

or it was still fermenting and the co2 in the solution caused it to read wrong
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Re: What still to built or buy?

Post by Greig56 »

I haven't figured it out!
I've been brewing awhile and have never come across this. My first reading my hydrometer was in my hand in one of those oversize tester tubes you can get with your hydrometer, while my second reading was via looking over the primary bucket itself! Each time I give it a spin, wait, read and repeat! As for the temp skewing my readings a very warm reading will only affect the end reading by what 3-5 points max? My first reading I got I think a 1129/30 and a lesser number later but to again plop it back in to have it bobble up at near the bottom of the inside paper scale leaves me at a loss!!
All said and done I think it shall get siphoned and done with in short order before it's worked off too far. This Monday is both a holiday and three weeks working away in some pretty warm temps so don't think it should last much longer. Either it will be near done or by the horns it will be done!

I was able to send Ian Smiley a pic of my Biz and he's called it a Reflux Still so go figure! I'm thinking because of the column height myself! If I can shrink the size of the pics of my Biz I have here I might be able to post them on here but till then!
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Re: What still to built or buy?

Post by still_stirrin »

Greig56 wrote:I haven't figured it out!...
I was able to send Ian Smiley a pic of my Biz...go figure! I'm thinking...If I can shrink the size of the pics of my Biz I have here I might be able to post them on here...
Now, if you'd post a pic here perhaps you'd get more (better) discussion. I've attached a link telling you "how" to attach your photo to the site (don't use an external host either): http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 35&t=19897
ss

p.s.-it's part of the "mandatory reading" threads here.
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Re: What still to built or buy?

Post by Greig56 »

Success at Last!! Now This Is my Biz! 4' of copper!! -2' of 3" followed by 2' of 1 1/2" attached to an 18" Liebig of 1" over 1/2"on top of my modified burner keg! The T-fitting and Liebig will disconnect for cleaning/storage! I've hung the liebig at a 45* while it was running instead of straight up and down. SWEET!!! This doesn't show the upper digi thermostat or the 5' of 3/8 line I straightened out and have dis/connectable to the output of the liebig that drains my final finished product!
Kinda brings a tear to my eye.....!!

Right now the only thing holding me back is my baseline WallyWorld 30KBTU gas burner. I removed the mandated 15 min timer from the equation which wasn't rocket science, yet I'm limited in that it won't run at a real low and slow flame so best at the moment is about <2/3 dial min.
My thought this is a Pot yet I've been told it's a Reflux perhaps of it's height! This could be turned into a VM setup at some time in the future too!
I had cobbled this together from a melding of a good few sites I found of different types of stills mixing all the good points into one! So Sweet!!
sweetest1.JPG
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Re: What still to built or buy?

Post by still_stirrin »

Greig56 wrote:....Now This Is my Biz! 4' of copper!!...
:crazy: In a potstill no less!
Greig56 wrote:...- 2' of 3" followed by 2' of 1 1/2" attached to an 18" Liebig of 1" over 1/2".... (with) The T-fitting and Liebig...disconnect for cleaning/storage!...
Modularity is goodness here. In a potstill, the 3" section does you no good. It only slows the vapor velocity down, potentially causing minimal reflux. A bigger concern is the velocity (and resultant static pressure) through the 1-1/2" x 1/2" tee at the top. Reducing the vapor path to 3/8" into your Liebig is even worse. That's where your vapor flow will choke. That will limit the mass throughput of product.
Greig56 wrote:...This doesn't show the upper digi thermostat or the 5' of 3/8 line I straightened out....Kinda brings a tear to my eye.....!!
I'll say.
Greig56 wrote:...My thought this is a Pot yet I've been told it's a Reflux perhaps of it's height!....
Well, it's not a very well designed potstill, to say the least. And there may be components of which you can utilize in a VM reflux still, but I wonder if you even understand one well enough to build one.

I would recommend removing the 3" column section as a minimum (for potstill operation). And resize your vapor lines to ensure they're at least 1/2" or larger all the way through the Liebig. And for potstill operation, the 1-1/2" x 1/2" tee should be sealed in the top run (no thermometer needed).

You've got quite "the Biz" there, mr. Greig56. Be safe with it.
ss
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Re: What still to built or buy?

Post by Greig56 »

This is what happens when you forge ahead before finding out there's a site such as this that will help those 'still' wet behind the ear!
This does have a fair bit of copper mesh and copper strapping (lightly twisted wire bundle clamps etc) inside throughout the height of the column & T (for the therm's sake here!)for some reflux. It's not choked up but it's there!
For all the examples I found to base this on, there was a thermometer at the top of the tee, what I couldn't design or figure out as an alt for a temp reading was I have seen the thermo reading via contact on the T cover itself,,, instead of reading off the mesh in the top of the column as my example! -I'm good with my hands but better off a visual of some sort!! This could be turned into a VM setup at some time in the future too! A bit of thin 3/8 ref line twisted into an extension of the T will do that nicely!
The Liebig is still 1/2" thru but it's the 5' of 3/8" drain off its output that I liberated from an Oil Furnace accomplice I've chatted up.
Necessity is 'still' the Mother of Invention and the $$ rules!
This sport is 'still' not completely legal so one has to sometimes make a few judgement calls on how you reply to the guy you're looking for help from at Lowes/Depot or your local plumbing supply shop who's eyeing you awfull funny you're asking for odd size copper etc...
I do thank and appreciate comment and opinion! =The other reason I"m expanding my repost here is I know I'm not the only one here trying to up their game and this site has lots of food for thought!
I have another spare 2 feet of 3" line in the garage that has the look of version 2 -when I get the time after a few more washes... Thanks SS!
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Re: What still to built or buy?

Post by still_stirrin »

Greig56, are you positive your copper strapping and stuff is all copper and not just copper plated? Most of those clamps I've seen in the big box stores are simply plated. Be careful if using them as they can cause corrosion inside your column. Better still, remove them...they only slow your still down. You'd be better off running a quick strip run followed by a spirit run. You'll get better product quicker (in the long run).
ss
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Re: What still to built or buy?

Post by still_stirrin »

Greig56 wrote:...The Liebig is still 1/2" thru but it's the 5' of 3/8" drain off its output that I liberated from an Oil Furnace accomplice I've chatted up....
Be careful with this practice. Remember, "loose lips sink ships"

Be safe. Be responsible. And be DISCRETE. I'm just sayin'....
ss
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Re: What still to built or buy?

Post by Greig56 »

I hear you re being discrete!! Yet it was the older guy (retired Engineer -non train type!) who worked at Lowes in the plumbing dept who himself has a stainless still and recommended his bud the Furnace guy! I left him with a recommendation to add some copper in there somewhere and never actually met the Furnace guy, -his young son answered the door!! Ha!
To my knowledge the package wrapper of the copper wire clamps I read they were 100% but now you have me wondering so I'll check!

My biggest issue which I was rudely reminded of yest. doing a vinegar water cleanup is my basic Wallyworld rather ChinaInc. gas burner! The first burner I got was a decent burner but the frame would barely hold up an empty turkey pot so back that went! This one works, the frame is great but I can't keep a real low flame so I'm stuck for the moment!
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Re: What still to built or buy?

Post by Hellnoh2o »

I can appreciate your excitement and thrill of constructing your first still. I also can relate to the pride one gets from this accomplishment, it is also good to see your ability to except criticism even when put very bluntly. I am currently very much in the same shoes and I can vouch for what these guys are saying, do tons of research and read your ass off! Me personally I usually build it in my head while laying in bed, then the following day build it, then do the research then get my balls busted!! Haha sounds fun right? Seriously research is the key.....good luck and stay safe.
My wife calls me a stillhead......my thoughts are refined
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Re: What still to built or buy?

Post by frodo »

i was freaking out yesterday, my bil called, i hear my wife say.

he is working on his still... wth woman!!!!

my bil said. thats illegl aint it?

i told her to not tell anyone, she said he is my brother

i said not even him!!!
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Re: What still to built or buy?

Post by pablo 01 »

red dog.You wrote that offsett neck was expensive compared to others,so not worth it as cheaper ones are better.My question is.
what are the average prices for different stills.
I run a Fractional reflux still.and find it efficient to use.
I am only new to stills,but from what i have seen,offset(reflux) are really good and cheap.
If i stick to uniformed process from start to finish(sugar type,yeast type,temp whilst fermenting)And try to replicate still adjustments.it is easy quick and efficient.
i always get 96% and above with finished product.and its quick and very clean.
i have seen ...pot stills... before but not many others so i cant compare..
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flyweed
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Re: What still to built or buy?

Post by flyweed »

not sure if this is the correct folder to place this..but I am going to be acquiring my "building" supplies soon, and came across a really good deal on a "Slim" pony keg..that's 7.75 gallons and has the Sanke fitting on top, so I can remove the valve and install a flanged column on it

I just want to be sure this keg will work for the boiler, before I buy it.
keg.jpg
Thanks
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still_stirrin
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Re: What still to built or buy?

Post by still_stirrin »

flyweed wrote:...I just want to be sure this keg will work for the boiler, before I buy it...
It'll work, sure.

But I'd recommend getting a 1/2 barrel (15.5 gallon) keg for the boiler. Probably the same up front cost but twice the size. A 15 gallon boiler is great for larger batches which will net you more product and make it easier to make good cuts.

The 7-1/2 gallon keg is perfect for a thumper though. I just think you'll soon wish you'd have started with a 1/2 barrel, so consider it.
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flyweed
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Re: What still to built or buy?

Post by flyweed »

actually..not the same upfront cost..I can pick this guy up locally for $22. the 1/2 barrels are running about $80-90 anywhere near me.

I don't really want to make alot of "likker".....basically I use it to make "apple pie" for christmas gifts....make some neutral spirit, and then remix it in with some good, home pressed cider, cinnamon sticks, etc.

This is pretty much all I wanna do with it. I may experiment with others time to time, but this is about it.
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Re: What still to built or buy?

Post by LWTCS »

Seems a great value.

But I'll agree with S_S.

IMO, sooner or later you will wish you had the 15 gallon capacity.
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Re: What still to built or buy?

Post by esther87 »

Has anyone dealt with clawhammer supply from Colorado or Moonshine Stills Company from Ga. I own a small reflux still, homemade, looking for pot
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What still to built or buy?

Post by raketemensch »

I know it's hard to lay out cash up front -- the price of a keg kept me from getting started for a good 6 months.

But hobby time is freaking precious, and the volume that you get out of a keg is SO worth it. We get so little final product for how much we run that volume is extremely important. Coming up with a pint here and there is great, but I always ended up feeling like I needed to hoard it. This last spirit run I stashed two full 1.75 liter bottles for aging, and still had enough to drink to get me to the next spirit run.

For me, personally, that was a big goal.

If you spend the cash on a column you can change boilers at will. If you buy one of those claw hammers, you're stuck with a single, kinda small, boiler size.
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Bigbob
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Re: What still to built or buy?

Post by Bigbob »

People seem to have good things to say about claw hammer. Not so much moonshine.
If you wear underwear then it's a dress!
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 15&t=62150 How I run a small still
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