New filtering idea - while stripping

[Prairiepiss]

General household sugar in my country has a sandy to light brown color to it. I also run a pot still. I'm not trying to make neutral but I don't care if filtering gets rid of flavor along with the nasties. I want good clean spirits. No flavor or good flavor is fine with me.

Most of all I want more bang for my buck. Who doesn't? And while greed is a bad thing in this hobby leaving 60% or more of the available ethanol in the feints jar or in the pot I think is a good example of restraining that monster.

I'm not spending all my time trying to get rid of the flavor I'm actually spending less time and money widening the kept portion of my distillate.

Ok I I couldn't remember where you were at for the sugar. Sory. Light brown sugar here is completely different.

But this recipe still makes no since to me for a out still. Have you tried a different recipe? Maybe even Birdwatchers if you really just want to make a sugar wash? Sugar dap and yeast isn't the best recipe for a pot still in my opinion. But I could be wrong. I've been known to be wrong.

[Bagasso]

I tried different recipes when I first started out. Tried a few different baking yeasts because there are no brewshops here so no real brewing yeasts. Tried wheatgerm, bran, cornmeal, barley, oatmeal and the results were about the same with regards to the size of the hearts. That is why I would rather spend the $0.65 on charcoal and filter than on grains.

Actually I believe the culprit for my tiny hearts is my water but if that is the case I would have to buy water at around $3 to ferment and another $1 to dilute plus the $2 of propane to do the spirit run for a total of $6. Or I can spend $0.65 and filter. It's just makes more sense in my case.

[Prairiepiss]

Well I'm glad you have found a economical system that fits your needs.

[rad14701]

I guess I've been spoiled by wood and cheap city electric heat... That plus the fact that I just plain like running a still... Perhaps I associate the thought of filtering spirits through charcoal or carbon as being about as lackluster and slow as <<< flashbacks here >>> filtering honey for bottling...

We've seen this one before...

• Ferment
• Freeze distill
• Carbon filter
• Drink
• Headache

Remember, charcoal and carbon filtering don't eliminate the nasties that cause hangovers, just flavors...

[Dnderhead]

if carbon/charcoal filtering why are do it on stripping run..why not do something similar on spirits run?

[Bagasso]

That's the idea behind sharing different experiences. Now someone may have similar needs but if he gets a string of "carbon is bad" posts, from people who are in different situations then his, then he will miss out on that information.

Now I have been on this forum for a while and I have knowledge of information posted by other members that I can share with someone who has a question. For example "How long should I run at full reflux?" I can reply with "I don't run a column but I have seen many say at least 1/2 hour and that 1 hour would be better."

That would be a helpful post. Why can't carbon questions be answered the same. The standard "you don't really need it" up front isn't bad but also share the real info. Steer them away from the brewhouse carbon and tell them to check with water filter places for better prices. Tell them to try with and without and have them decide for themselves instead of deciding for them.

To be fair I have seen many posts along those lines but they are usually outnumbered by the negative "crutch" type comments. Reminds me of the early flute threads that got kinda nasty but once a couple of members duplicated it then it was accepted. Carbon seems to be stuck even though members say that they have used it and will continue to use it because it works.

[Dnderhead]

I dont use carbon as most is AG or fruit ,but the directions iv seen your supposed to boil carbon changing the water several times.this helps activate the carbon and cleans it.

[Bagasso]

I guess I've been spoiled by wood and cheap city electric heat... That plus the fact that I just plain like running a still... Perhaps I associate the thought of filtering spirits through charcoal or carbon as being about as lackluster and slow as <<< flashbacks here >>> filtering honey for bottling...

We've seen this one before...

• Ferment
• Freeze distill
• Carbon filter
• Drink
• Headache

Remember, charcoal and carbon filtering don't eliminate the nasties that cause hangovers, just flavors...

Slow doesn't matter because you don't have to be there. Set her up and walk away.

You still make cuts but the cuts can be looser.

What causes hangovers? I've seen acetaldehyde pointed out as the main culprit while I believe it to be ethyl acetate. Ethyl acetate is adsorbed by activated carbon. In the case of acetaldehyde it has a boiling point of 20ºC so just airing out probably gets rid of most of it. Then again it may be something else.

[blind drunk]

Reading over this thread (not aimed at anyone in particular), I have now found a practical example to explain and support the term - 'mental masturbation' to my students.

Well, at least they won't go blind!

[MuleKicker]

I dont use carbon as most is AG or fruit ,but the directions iv seen your supposed to boil carbon changing the water several times.this helps activate the carbon and cleans it.

Right on Dnder, Changing out the water many times while boiling gets the fines out. So as to avoid the cloudy shit left over in the drink.

[mash rookie]

Heads = hang overs. Tails = flavors.

I make a conservative cuts and my neutral still has too much flavor. Carbon filtering removes the off flavors.
I don’t have a problem with dust with new charcoal. I use TP wrapped in coffee filters at the bottom of a long glass tube then fill with charcoal above.
I can pour in 1500 ml walk away and an hour later it has slowly drained through.
After a few uses I boil my carbon changing the water several times until the water comes off clean.
You do loose some booze the first time. If you rinse it or wet it first with water your first batch through will be diluted to a lower ABV

Mental masterbation? Huh?

[kiwistiller]

You still make cuts but the cuts can be looser.

What causes hangovers? I've seen acetaldehyde pointed out as the main culprit while I believe it to be ethyl acetate. Ethyl acetate is adsorbed by activated carbon. In the case of acetaldehyde it has a boiling point of 20ºC so just airing out probably gets rid of most of it. Then again it may be something else.

I was under the impression that acetaldehyde has some limited adsorbtion by certain grades of carbon as well. I reckon it stands out like a sore thumb in low concentrations (artificial green apple sour lolly flavour) though so it's a pretty easy one to cut out unless your wash has been infected with the little buggers that produce it (look for a surface film)

[Dnderhead]

from what iv read carbon removes flavors /color and will remove some of the higher alcohols (tales)

[Bagasso]

I was under the impression that acetaldehyde has some limited adsorbtion by certain grades of carbon as well. I reckon it stands out like a sore thumb in low concentrations (artificial green apple sour lolly flavour) though so it's a pretty easy one to cut out unless your wash has been infected with the little buggers that produce it (look for a surface film)

The fact that it is what our liver oxidizes ethanol into means that there really is no way to not have it in our system when we drink. That is why I doubt that it is the cause of hangovers because that 100-125 mg present in 500ml of low wines (based on Photonics lab results) is probably nothing compared to the amount that is created in the liver.

500ml at 40% ethanol would be 200ml of 100% or 158g which, if it converts 1 to 1 then that would be 158,000mg of acetaldehyde or 1264 times the amount in uncut hooch.

If the body can cope with that why would a couple hundred more or less make a difference? That is why I believe that ethyl acetate is a more likely candidate.

ETA: Of course if a person's body has trouble converting the acetaldehyde (Alcohol flush reaction) then it would be the reason behind hangover like symptoms but these people usually can't drink any alcohol no matter how pure.

[kiwistiller]

I reckon ethanol is a pretty big contributor too

[Ian Jay]

There is a free informative e-book on activated carbon here:

http://homedistiller.org/activated_book1.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Enjoy!

[The Baker]

Reading over this thread (not aimed at anyone in particular), I have now found a practical example to explain and support the term - 'mental masturbation' to my students.

Thank you all!

What, no hands....??

[Rod]

A good idea Vetting

a pity it goes off on tangents

for those who do carbon , worth trying

[vetting]

I just finished doing the reflux run.

Original wash was 26 gallons at 11% or so.
Did a stripping run like I mentioned - parrot dumping right into carbon filled pipe and then into carboy.
Produced 6 gallons at around 35%
Diluted and reran the same way
Produced 5 gallons at 40%

Reflux run produced 1.5 gallons of hearts at 94%

Waiting for it to air out and then going to cut with distilled water. I'll update in a day or so with the tasting results.

[Prairiepiss]

I'm just going to throw this thread out there. I beleave in Big R's line of thinking. And this doesn't just pertain to pot stills. This line of thinking covers all stills.
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 15&t=24388

[Bagasso]

I believe in Big R's line of thinking as well but he is talking about doing 3-4 additional runs and that is what I'm trying to get away from.

[Prairiepiss]

And that's the best part of this hobby. You can chose how to do it Amy way you like.

I just finished doing the reflux run.

Original wash was 26 gallons at 11% or so.
Did a stripping run like I mentioned - parrot dumping right into carbon filled pipe and then into carboy.
Produced 6 gallons at around 35%
Diluted and reran the same way
Produced 5 gallons at 40%

Reflux run produced 1.5 gallons of hearts at 94%

Waiting for it to air out and then going to cut with distilled water. I'll update in a day or so with the tasting results.

But here Vetting has ran his wash 3 times anyway. What would another one hurt? And if he is running it 3 times and still needs to use carbon. There is something probably wrong with the process he is using? No offence this thread is about him not you Bagasso.

My question to Vetting is. What did the backset of your last run look like? Was it clear? Hell even the 2nd run was it clear?

This makes more since to me. If you are using the carbon between the runs. And the backset is still coming out cloudy. It's not pulling out all the impurities. And is a waist of my time, money and good carbon. The carbon would either need to be replaced or cleaned between runs. Or your just putting cleaner distillate through dirty carbon. But your mileage may vary.

[Bagasso]

But here Vetting has ran his wash 3 times anyway. What would another one hurt? And if he is running it 3 times and still needs to use carbon. There is something probably wrong with the process he is using? No offence this thread is about him not you Bagasso.

No offense taken. I'm just adding my point of view.

Big R's thread is about runing feints 3-4 times after the point where vetting is at which would mean a total of 6-7 runs.

Now in the OP vetting states that he did a stripping run on his boka and tasted at the parrot and after the filter and said:

The 150 proof output from the bottom of the filter tasted like normal neutral compared to the harsh taste from the parrot output.

If this is true then I don't understand why he chose to run 3 times.

If you are using the carbon between the runs. And the backset is still coming out cloudy. It's not pulling out all the impurities. And is a waist of my time, money and good carbon.

Well we know that carbon doesn't pull everything out so why would it be a surprise that the backset comes out cloudy?

In comparison, baking soda helps to clean up heads but it shouldn't be disregarded because it doesn't do anything to tails.

Also, some of the cloudiness could be from the water that is used to dilute to a safe abv.

[vetting]

I ran it through a 2nd time in stripping mode just for kicks. Its an electric keg with timers and temp alarms so when Im working in the basement, I just let it run again. I didn’t have time for a full reflux run at that time, so diluted and ran it through again for experimentation purposes. The backset on the 2nd time through was pretty clear - a lot more clean than a normal run.

[Dnderhead]

I dont under stand ,why do you want backset clear?

[Bagasso]

Vetting, I was just about to edit to add that it was probably just to see what it did. Good to hear that the carbon did it's thing. I usually just run once and filter so I have never seen what the backset of filtered low wines looks like plus I have very hard water so I always end up with cloudy backsets even if I'm just distilling plain water (for other projects).

[Bagasso]

I dont under stand ,why do you want backset clear?

According to Big R's thread,Feints & Pot Stills posted by PP when you water down feints and re-run the backset gets clearer with each succesive run and it can be used as an indicator of how clean the distillate is.

[Prairiepiss]

I dont under stand ,why do you want backset clear?

That reference is regards to Big 's thread. That I posted a link to.

I am glad you are happy with the way you have chosen to run your operations. I hope it works out for you. I just beleave all information should be out in the open. So others can make the choices them selves. None of it is a you have to do it this way situation. But if all ways are not presented. The decision can't me made properly. We all have to find what works for us. Whether its in the pursuit of making a product a certain way. Or if its to save money or time.

[Dnderhead]

that post is about running heads and tales not backset one has nothing to do with the other.

[Prairiepiss]

I just feel that it can apply to not just running a feints run. But would apply to all multiple distillation runs. And he basically says you run it and dilute it down with new water and run again. You do this until the backset is clear. Could this not apply to starting with a fresh fermented wash And multiple runs?