100% Malted Corn Whiskey

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Boda Getta
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100% Malted Corn Whiskey

Post by Boda Getta »

I've done a search for this topic but didn't find anything; if I missed it please provide link.
Has anyone tried a 100% malted corn recipe using no sugar, no cooking but a little yeast?

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BG
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Re: 100% Malted Corn Whiskey

Post by rad14701 »

So, just malted corn with no conversion...??? I'm sure someone has tried it... Whether they had any success or not would be the question... If it was to ferment is would do so quite slowly as the enzymes in the yeast would be doing most of the conversion work, at least at first...
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Re: 100% Malted Corn Whiskey

Post by rtalbigr »

I've never tried it but I think it would be a difficult process. Corn will gelatinize at mashing temps but it will take many hours to get good gelatinization. Corn really gelatinizes best at temps well above mashing temps, but then you'd denature the enzymes.

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Re: 100% Malted Corn Whiskey

Post by rad14701 »

rtalbigr, re-read his original question...
boda getta wrote:Has anyone tried a 100% malted corn recipe using no sugar, no cooking but a little yeast?
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Re: 100% Malted Corn Whiskey

Post by Dnderhead »

malted grain does not need "cooking/gelatinize" just add hot water..
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Re: 100% Malted Corn Whiskey

Post by Tater »

Malted grain should be first adventure into the grain stilling world.Like dunder says just need hot water .Wont get as much yield.Taste will be tad bit earthy.Malted rye is my favorite malted corn tastes better to me then corn and malted corn.
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Re: 100% Malted Corn Whiskey

Post by Boda Getta »

Tater:
Why would the yield be low? Actually, what I am thinking about trying is malting the corn (never malted corn yet and malting the amount needed may be unrealistic), after grinding and drying malt I would then add hot back-set and hot water, let cool then pitch yeast for a pure corn no cook recipe with no added sugar. If the yield would be real low I guess I could add some sugar, but that's not what I would be going after. I could also add some malted barley if the "earthy" taste was off-putting. What think y'all.

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Re: 100% Malted Corn Whiskey

Post by Fastill »

I have done all malted corn, well, some of the corn didn't sprout, but it all got ground up and fermented.
I poured boiling water over half of the corn, in an insulated fermenter, then added the other half when the water cooled. I didn't take a temp reading but I could put my hand in it for a few seconds. That evening when I checked it to add yeast, it was already fermenting, but I did add bakers yeast anyway.
It was finished in 4-5 days and was very low yield. The big mistake I made is that I ran it out at over 90% from my column. Still tasted very unique, but I think it would have been better at a lower ABV. It is pretty harsh, even now, (I still have about a pint at 125p.) sitting on charred white oak. But it is very tasty in a mixture with coke or 7-up.
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Re: 100% Malted Corn Whiskey

Post by Dnderhead »

"then added the other half when the water cooled. "
no, add hot water to all,if you want to git technical this is strike water,there are calculates for this)
this is best done in a insulated cooler or a wood barrel (to hold the heat)
2 lb of grain per gallon will give a yield of about 6%
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Re: 100% Malted Corn Whiskey

Post by Fastill »

Dnderhead wrote:"then added the other half when the water cooled. "
no, add hot water to all,if you want to git technical this is strike water,there are calculates for this)
this is best done in a insulated cooler or a wood barrel (to hold the heat)
2 lb of grain per gallon will give a yield of about 6%
My guess was the "cooled" water was at about 160 and was done in an insulated barrel. If you add boiling water to it all you kill all the enzymes and only get the sugars that were converted during malting.
Thinking you may have misunderstood my post.
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Re: 100% Malted Corn Whiskey

Post by Boda Getta »

Fastill:
I would run mine in a pot still w/propane. I would do a stripping run hard and fast and discard only fore-shots, then a spirit run as slow as possible making conservative cuts. I didn't think about killing the enzymes with the boiling water but if I use yeast, would that that matter? If I didn't want to use yeast nor sugar at could save back some malt to add later.

BG
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Re: 100% Malted Corn Whiskey

Post by Dnderhead »

that is why they have calculators. when adding hot water to grain it will cool. so you heat water a few degrees higher.this depends on how much water and grain.with 2 lb per gal its about 25*f?.
so you heat water to "strike temperature" when it mixes with grain it is at right temperature.
(how much you making?)
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Re: 100% Malted Corn Whiskey

Post by Fastill »

Dnderhead wrote:that is why they have calculators. when adding hot water to grain it will cool. so you heat water a few degrees higher.this depends on how much water and grain.with 2 lb per gal its about 25*f?.
so you heat water to "strike temperature" when it mixes with grain it is at right temperature.
(how much you making?)
I brew plenty of allgrain beer and do know about strike temps, but my all corn was done before my beer brewing education, so I just used the feel method for water temps to add the second half of the corn. I have since then obtained a thermometer. This batch I did was 20 lbs corn and 12 gallons of water, ended up with just over a half gallon of duluted 125p after cuts running refluxed.
boda getta wrote:Fastill:
I would run mine in a pot still w/propane. I would do a stripping run hard and fast and discard only fore-shots, then a spirit run as slow as possible making conservative cuts. I didn't think about killing the enzymes with the boiling water but if I use yeast, would that that matter? If I didn't want to use yeast nor sugar at could save back some malt to add later.

BG
Not quite sure what you are getting at but if you boil the corn or use bioling water you will kill any natural yeast and need to add back to get it to ferment. The yeast won't give you conversion, you need the malting and mashing to make that happen, This is what dunder is refering to about the strike temps. for the mash water.
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Re: 100% Malted Corn Whiskey

Post by rtalbigr »

rad14701 wrote:rtalbigr, re-read his original question...
boda getta wrote:Has anyone tried a 100% malted corn recipe using no sugar, no cooking but a little yeast?
Oh, :oops:

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Re: 100% Malted Corn Whiskey

Post by Fourway »

You need corn that hasn't been kilned, even stand dried corn has dead kernels but kilned corn often won't sprout at all.
If you dry your malted corn and then grind it you need to either grind it pretty small or expect to have to hot soak your malted corn meal a fairly long time to get it properly wet through and dissolving/converting.
If you miss on no cook corn mashes and go to the still with a lot of bound starch things are gonna get ugly.
If you want to try doing green malt mash, you grind the wet sprouted corn , add an appropriate amount of hot water and either let the moon have its way with it and see what you get or pitch yeast when the temp gets down. To grind green malt you can either run it through a strong meat grinder or corn grinder (like a corona) or wizz a few cups at a time in a food processor.
If you dry and winnow corn malt you lose the high grassy taste you tend to get with green malt.
With green malt the sprout shoots have a pretty strong effect on the flavor, I like it. Many dont.
When you malt corn a few of the kernels will catch mold, puff up and get smelly... this should not be an issue if you are comfortable with a very authentic corn liquor taste.
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Re: 100% Malted Corn Whiskey

Post by still_head »

I malt my own corn all the time, non GMO feed corn by soaking it for 8 hours, draining and letting set for 8 hours, repeat a couple times. Then let it sit moist, rinse once a day, after 4-6 days of sprouting, I dry it on a concrete floor with a box fan on it and grind it (or store it). Here's a malted vs unmalted profile of dissolved sugar after a gentle simmer of each. For malted though, I routinely use just a 150F infusion for an hour, the sugar is as available as in malted barley. For every pound of corn, I probably get 1/3 pound of dissolved sugar according to my refractometer, so less than malted barley, but still pretty good I thought. Here's a graph of the dissolved sugar of malted vs unmalted corn.
http://webercam.com/2014/04/nothing-to- ... along.html
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Re: 100% Malted Corn Whiskey

Post by Boda Getta »

still-head
Thanks for chart; the weather has turned here but I want to try an all malt corn whiskey next spring. I've read that the best corn to malt would be seed corn from a feed and seed store, rather than a feed corn. Makes sense, but not sure of the cost difference between a seed corn and feed corn. I would want to use dried malt rather than green malt and plan to air/sun dry it on a old screen door on sawhorses. I have my first single malt (100% barley malt) in a 3 gal Gibbs keg now, checked it last night and its got great color and a nice malty taste, but still a little sharp. I will put it on glass soon for 8-10 months and it should be very nice.

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Re: 100% Malted Corn Whiskey

Post by still_head »

Drying in the sun would be nice, faster too. I'll look for seed corn, thanks!

I have a bunch of mostly malted barley batches up to 2 years aged, it's really good! I used charred white oak pieces. Malted barley is a great grain, a little pricey, but still great. I'd like to try some smoked malted barley, but it gets expensive.
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Re: 100% Malted Corn Whiskey

Post by castiron »

Papaw always used corn, but what a lot of people miss, is what type of corn! Most people do not have access to the right type of corn. It can be ordered, but there are not too many place in the US that even carry this type of corn anymore. Most corn produced today is for agricultural uses. Back in the day, there where two types of corn produced widely here in the US and that was field corn,(animal feed corn), and sweet corn,(human consumption). The KEY to good corn mash is obtaining naturally dried sweet corn, and it is hard to get 25-50lbs of dried sweet corn, without having to go through a company that produces this type of corn for Commercial Distilling Operations, but it can be found...lol. My papaws,(now my) process includes "soaking" the corn until it "sours", usually 4-5 days depending on the ambient temp. I then drain water, and allow germination to occur, the corn is then dried out, and run through a grinder ONCE, (I do not like "fines" in my mash), then placed into wash bin,(30gallon food grade plastic drum) with 155*f spring water,(app. 10 gallon), add first 25lbs sugar, soaked for an hour, then add remaining sugar to batch, topped off with spring water until desired temp,(75*f), then I will run one or two ways, depending on weather, and the first being the "older run", which requires natural fermentation, and depending on temps, runs anywhere from 7 days to 6 weeks!!, The newer run requires a "yeast" activator, to speed the fermentation process up a bit, anywhere from 7 to 21 days, (some use a "turbo" yeast to speed things up), but I do not care for chemically altered organisms in my brews....lol Now I left out a bunch, but you get the picture...I do not know if this helps you in any way, but this is a tried and true old recipe from the hills of Ky, and as a matter of FACT, there is a distillery now in South West Ky, that is running basically the same recipe for commercial production legally....But, they have to "cut" it, and that in it's own, is an art that takes years to master....
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Re: 100% Malted Corn Whiskey

Post by illegal_smile »

Castiron,

I realize this is an old post, but I found the discussion interesting.

You've mentioned the dry sweet corn, and I've wondered about doing some of the old maizes that the locals in KY and TN used, namely Bloody Butcher and Jimmie Red, or Neals Paymaster if possible. These aren't the traditional sweet corns, and will have less sugars for sure, but I wondered if you knew of the old timers having favorites like this and still going off the grain?

Also, to substitute the sugar my buddy has wanted to use a local honey source.

Any comments are welcome. Thanks ahead of time.
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Re: 100% Malted Corn Whiskey

Post by greggn »

illegal_smile wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:26 pm I wondered if you knew of the old timers having favorites like this and still going off the grain?

I doubt that you're going to get a reply from castiron ...

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... but you might try the same question in the "Grains" or "Whiskey" forums.
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Re: 100% Malted Corn Whiskey

Post by Tater »

My grand pa preferred white corn over yellow said white had less oil and more yield . https://www.victoryseeds.com/corn_boone ... white.html
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Re: 100% Malted Corn Whiskey

Post by jayka »

https://youtu.be/Y8UQGlNDsEU
Check out Jesse making malted corn on YouTube. I didn't bother watching it as I watched it ages ago pretty sure he uses a little barley and rye. But as his corn is malted he could have done it 100% corn easy so long as his corn had a high enough diastatic power.
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Re: 100% Malted Corn Whiskey

Post by Dr Griz »

Hey Illegal, I just stumbled on your question.

I've been playing around a bit with malted Bloody Butcher -- it will convert on its own, but it seems like it still needs to be gelatinized to really get the efficiencies up. Jesse's recipe with Gladfield malted yellow corn seems to be at about 62% brewhouse efficiency (if we compare his corn with the flaked stuff). As I figure it, he basically "wasted" about 4 lbs of his 11 lbs of corn by not doing that. Which might be worth it to avoid all the "sticky goop"!
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