So whats wrong with Turbo's

[Ethan Olic]

I am a self confessed novice, I have done maybe a dozen 26 ltr sugar washes in the last 6 months using a Still Spirits Turbo 500 still (OK I know people have issues with these stills but having used it I can only surmise that they either don't read the instructions or are trying to use it a for what its not designed. Mine works perfectly and predictably everytime producing 93% ABV. I would have liked to self build and still may someday but I wanted to get into home spirits production not plumbing and dont have the skills or tools anyway).

I have studied as much as I can regarding different washes and never wanted or intended to use turbo yeasts, I used the Turbos supplied with the still (7Kg white sugar in 25 ltrs, fermented to 990 or better with perfect results) and then tried a succession of different recipees based on wheatgerm or tomato paste using Youngs Super Wine yeast (high alcohol tolerance) and 5Kg or less sugar, I have had a succession of mediocre or failed fermentations, always very slow (one wheatgerm recipee took 6 weeks and then stopped at 1.05), I never got to 12% ABV with any of them. In frustration I reverted to Alcotec Turbo 48 for my last 4 washes, same sugar and water, they all finished in about 4 days and went to about 16.5% ABV. So the question is WHATS WRONG WITH TURBO'S.

Now like I said I'm not an expert far from it, but I can follow simple instructions. I can understand that for pot stills Turbo's are not so hot but for a reflux producing better than 90% why piss about with anything else. I dont get off flavours at all, it comes off the still very very clean, I carbon filter but dont honestly think I need to. Why produce less than 12% in 2 weeks or more when I can do 16% or better in 4 days with a Turbo, its a no brainer really ( it does cost marginally more but its not significant).

Im not flying the Turbo flag, just using what works for me. If someone can show me the light I''ll gladly take it on board. I have excellent thermostatic control and I have a dedicated room to work in cleaner than an operating theatre.

[junkyard dawg]

Once you learn how to properly make and ferment a thin wash or even better make an all grain or mostly grain mash and use a real still, the answer will be apparent.

They taste bad.

thats all...

they suck...

But everyones taste is different, if you like what you are doing then more power to ya.

[Husker]

WHATS WRONG WITH TURBO'S

Nothing, really. It can sort of be equated to a box of macaroni and cheese. Pretty much anyone can follow the 2 or 3 instructions and produce food from it. There are actually people who 'live' off of that food. I, however, choose to learn to cook a little bit, because I would rather have something good to eat.

The analogy, although absurd, actually is pretty close between a 'real' wash/mash recipe being like a good cooked meal, and a turbo wash being like a box of mac and cheese.

H.

[Bayou-Ruler]

WHATS WRONG WITH TURBO'S

Nothing, really. It can sort of be equated to a box of macaroni and cheese. Pretty much anyone can follow the 2 or 3 instructions and produce food from it. There are actually people who 'live' off of that food. I, however, choose to learn to cook a little bit, because I would rather have something good to eat.

The analogy, although absurd, actually is pretty close between a 'real' wash/mash recipe being like a good cooked meal, and a turbo wash being like a box of mac and cheese.

H.

Thats purdy good....

[Coaster]

@ Ethan Olic,

Suggest visiting the Tried And True Recipes and make on of the simple sugar washes in that Forum using ordinary bakers yeast and then compare that to one of your washes made with your Turbo Yeast and then your will understand why Turbo Yeast are frond upon.

Regards,
Coaster

[Mud Mechanik]

Very good analogy Husker.......and I like the new placard Bayou....being a Hazmat technician finally has advantages

[Bayou-Ruler]

Very good analogy Husker.......and I like the new placard Bayou....being a Hazmat technician finally has advantages

Thank ya, Mud. I figured the placard would be more appropriate since I now have my Alcohol Fuel Plant permit from the TTB.

[junkyard dawg]

+1 on the analogy Husker.

I like the Haz Mat placard too...

[MuleKicker]

I agree with junkyarddog. Everyones taste is different. Back when I started, I ran a few turbos through. I didnt know any better. I could taste something that wasnt right. It didnt kill me, it didnt give me a headache. It was just there. I shared my drink with friends. They all loved it, said it was as good or better than any store bought vodka. I asked about the "funny taste" They didnt get it. Im a whisky drinker, I love the subtle differences in whisky. Alot of those same friends dont get it. It all tastes the same to them. So, if you dont 'get it', I mean taste it, than all the more power to ya. But the drinker with the seasoned palate will taste it.... and it will bug the shit out of him.

[bentstick]

Make a wash out of something that does not or will not ferment out to 16/17% abv, like a ujjsm fermented out to ohhhh 8/10% abv with bakers yeast or prestige, or anything else, make cuts, do a side by side comparison then ask,What's wrong with turbos? But to each their own, as signature sez
It is what ya make it!

[Samohon]

Nothing at all wrong with turbos Ethan, if thats your thing...
But if you want something from the top shelf, dont overwork/feed the beasties...

[Ethan Olic]

Did any of you actually bother to read my post before trolling out the usual biased rhetoric so typical of this forum. I was asking for constructive comments and maybe guidance and all I get is an inane joke and many more giving him a pat on the back for being such a clever chappie. I have tried reipees from the Tried and True section and for me they have produced an inferior result. I would like to know why this is so, advising me to make the same mistakes all over again is hardly helpful.

I am also a scotch whisky drinker, I don't mind Speyside whiskys but my favourites are the Islay single malts, specifically Laphroig, Lagavulin and Caol Ila, I also drink vodka and can readily detect the subtle differences in many different brands so please dont tell me I have an uneducated palate. In any case my point is not to produce whisky or even vodka but very high purity neutral spirit as efficiently as possible. If you expected my spirit to taste like vodka then you would maybe think it had an off taste, what your actually experiencing is the lack of the off taste thats deliberatly included in all commercial vodkas to give them their individual characters.

I am not trying to be clever or insulting to any of you. I posted in these forums because I believed that here is a vast repository of knowledge and I might discover why my admittedly limited experience doesn't agree with your so often expressed views. Maybe I have picked the wrong place for my questions, I did expect somewhat more useful responses

[Husker]

Yes, I am sure everyone here read your post, but WHAT DID YOU EXPECT TO HEAR, coming here and POSTING LIKE THAT ON YOUR FIRST POST ??!!!!?!!?!!!1

Try a different yeast.

Try a 'yeast bomb', where you culture the yeast outside of the main ferment batch to grow a big colony.

Make sure you are VERY careful with your sanitation.

Follow the recipe as listed.

There are many here who have had wonderful success with the tried and true recipes. We also have our 'every 3rd week troll' who stops by, and asserts the 'greatness of his turbo washes'. Sorry if your post was rubbed the wrong way, but everything about your post was fitting into that pattern.

H.

[Ethan Olic]

Once you learn how to properly make and ferment a thin wash or even better make an all grain or mostly grain mash and use a real still, the answer will be apparent. :

What is a real still ??

If your referring to an apparatus that effieciently extracts the ethanol from a fermented wash at very high purity then you would be describing my still perfectly, any other definition is by definition biased dogma, In any case I do not wish to challenge anyones beliefs on this score Im more interested in why Im not having success with Tried & True recipees

Given that I'm aiming for and achieving low 90's ABV then your comments regarding grain washes are a nonsense

[Ethan Olic]

Nothing at all wrong with turbos Ethan, if thats your thing...
But if you want something from the top shelf, dont overwork/feed the beasties...

Thankyou for one of the few helpful replies, the thing is I dont want Turbos to be my thing. I was looking for why my attempts with Tried & True recipees havnt been very successful

[bentstick]

Nobody's cutting it down relax, nobody is telling you its it WRONG, trying to tell you there are alternatives to the high amount of xtra byproduct that comes with turbos, and yes i have tried them just to see why they are not ideal for making a top notch product. The issues come from the bold ass print that is attached with the posts, it sez attitude right off the get, so yes your attack post wiil get attack response. As far you not having a refined or "uneducated palate" this hobby is nite and day compared to commercial distilled spirits,I have drank 18 yr old bourbon,scotch, and stuff that cost more than a week of wages,but to compare to a spirit I have tasted off a sill with tight cuts,and no way produced to just make profit, they should not be compared.... All is good in OUR world of better than commercial produced spirits. End of rant take it or leave it!
It has taken over a year and I still see my product getting better so it does not happen first go around practise get you better!

[Prairiepiss]

Ok you come on here post a thread about turbo yeast. Knowing the kind of answers you would get. In that post you do a lot of yelling and highlighting. That in my opinion is kinda rude.

Now you are wanting to know what's wrong with a turbo. If it works for you. And regular recipes do not work for you. And you got upset when you were told to try a tried and true recipe. And your answer was. Did we not read your first post? And they gave you the standard answer.

Well sir I did read your first post. And nothing in it says you followed a tried and true recipe. Because I don't know of any of the tried and true recipes that say to use a turbo yeast for it. And in this quote from your original post. You are claiming that you used a turbo yeast for a recipe based on wheat germ or tomato paste recipes.

I have studied as much as I can regarding different washes and never wanted or intended to use turbo yeasts, I used the Turbos supplied with the still (7Kg white sugar in 25 ltrs, fermented to 990 or better with perfect results) and then tried a succession of different recipees based on wheatgerm or tomato paste using Youngs Super Wine yeast (high alcohol tolerance) and 5Kg or less sugar , I have had a succession of mediocre or failed fermentations, always very slow (one wheatgerm recipee took 6 weeks and then stopped at 1.05), I never got to 12% ABV with any of them. In frustration I reverted to Alcotec Turbo 48 for my last 4 washes, same sugar and water, they all finished in about 4 days and went to about 16.5% ABV

I am no expert. But you have not provided any evidence that you have followed a tried and true recipe from this site. All evidence you have provided says you have only tried turbo yeast. And yes your Youngs Super Wine yeast (high alcohol tolerance) would be considered a turbo yeast. And you are having problems with it.

Maybe you can step back up to the table with some data that supports your claims. That you followed a tried and true recipe as posted. And how you did it. So maybe we can shed some light on what is causing your problems.

Oh and Welcome aboard. Quite the good first post you have here.

Edit to add. Normally most people give us an introduction in the welcome center. It's the polite thing to do.

[junkyard dawg]

If you expected my spirit to taste like vodka then you would maybe think it had an off taste, what your actually experiencing is the lack of the off taste thats deliberatly included in all commercial vodkas to give them their individual characters.

Troll level 100!

Given that I'm aiming for and achieving low 90's ABV then your comments regarding grain washes are a nonsense

You really don't have a clue what I'm talking about...

What is a real still ??

There are plenty of examples on this site. You bought a coffee maker.

In any case I do not wish to challenge anyones beliefs on this score Im more interested in why Im not having success with Tried & True recipees

You must not be capable of following directions. They are tried and true for a reason. And about beliefs... You are not challenging anything but patience... perhaps its your beliefs that need some enlightening? You are the one having trouble, remember?

I have tried reipees from the Tried and True section and for me they have produced an inferior result. I would like to know why this is so, advising me to make the same mistakes all over again is hardly helpful.

No one is advising you to make the same mistakes over and over. Are you posting drunk? You sure aren't making much sense...

I posted in these forums because I believed that here is a vast repository of knowledge and I might discover why my admittedly limited experience doesn't agree with your so often expressed views. Maybe I have picked the wrong place for my questions, I did expect somewhat more useful responses

I really dig the 'victim' tack... You have received excellent advice and chose to behave as a troll.

seems like your string of failures continues...

[Ayay]

Using turbo's at half the recommended potential leaves a taste that I find unpleasant. Not sure whether it's the yeasts or the nutrients in the turbo. I like the taste imparted by baker's yeast and common grain nutrients. Baker's yeast takes longer and can't go as high in ABV, but for me it's worth it.

There's nothing wrong with the alcohol from turbo's provided the meths and the fuzil oils are removed, it's just the taste. I can't get pissed (drunk) if the taste has to be endured. Maybe that's a good thing

[dakotasnake]

it is quit possible that if you followed one of the tryed an true recipes and then added a turbo yeast your wash had far to many nutriants. all the t & t recipes have enuff nutes in them as is. by adding a turbo whitch is loaded with nutes [ far to many in my opinion] the little guys just went crazy on all the nutes someone that knows more than i do may like to xplain what happens than but i beleave to many nutes can slow/ stall a wash cuzz the little guys are feasting on that instead of the sugar. using turbos is a personal choice , i would suggest using them in moderation, maybe 1/2 to 1/3 of the suggested dosage.

[JoeBean]

Not to de-rail anyone's thoughts, but to bring this conversation back to a more productive track, maybe I can ask if there are any benefits or detriments to using Brewer's yeast? I've read a few recommendations for and against, but not much on specifics as to why. Or, if anyone's tried other strains (eg. specialty yeasts used in some fermented sausages) and found them to be good, maybe you could comment on that.

I myself almost always use Fleischmann's bakers yeast because, well, that's what I've got available around here, and that's recommended by many. I did make one batch some time ago with a turbo yeast just to see what it would be like and did notice what I found to be a very unpleasant taste, so I didn't repeat the experiment.

I find Fleischmann's to produce a nice neutral so I don't need, or necessarily even want, to change, just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on Brewer's yeast.

Anyway, feel free to ignore me and get back to the argument at hand if you wish...

[moonshine guy]

Well this is from a guy who has a t-500 and his own homemade flute still. I have run both turbo yeast in both kinds of still columns and got the same bad tasting products from turbo yeast! Tried with bakers yeast and got the most clean tasting product I had every produce from either still column! All produces from 186P at the start and drop to 176P at the end with the t-500, and my flute would do the same except it will keep going down to 20P. My flute will produce down to 170P and drop to 70P right now. I keep this low runs and redo it in my next wash!

[Bayou-Ruler]

...

[rad14701]

Well, in an effort to prove how inept we all are Ethan Olic has proven his own ignorance very effectively... He comes here postulating his feigned superior knowledge by admitting that he can't follow Tried and True recipe directions yet can dump sugar and a sachet of Turbo Yeast into a bucket and get alcohol out of a store bought still... And he wonders why he gets bitch-slapped in these forums...

Ethan Olic, do yourself and the membership here a favor and either drop the attitude and do some research or go elsewhere... Trust me when I say that you won't be missed if you leave... However, should you choose to stick around and learn a few things you damned well better make an abrupt change in attitude... I don't think we need to be any clearer on this matter...

[Ethan Olic]

Well, in an effort to prove how inept we all are Ethan Olic has proven his own ignorance very effectively... He comes here postulating his feigned superior knowledge by admitting that he can't follow Tried and True recipe directions yet can dump sugar and a sachet of Turbo Yeast into a bucket and get alcohol out of a store bought still... And he wonders why he gets bitch-slapped in these forums...

Ethan Olic, do yourself and the membership here a favor and either drop the attitude and do some research or go elsewhere... Trust me when I say that you won't be missed if you leave... However, should you choose to stick around and learn a few things you damned well better make an abrupt change in attitude... I don't think we need to be any clearer on this matter...

I have claimed no superior knowledge, I freely admit my ignorance as a lack of knowledge not a state of mind or attitude. I am not banging the drum for turbos, I dont want to use them, but they are the only things up to now that have worked for me. Jesus what is it with you guys, OK maybe my posting was not worded as well as it may have been and I didnt realise how big the highlighting would come out but for christs sake. I want to understand the principles, I want to understand the chemistry, I dont want to simply follow recipees I want to know why they work or in my case haven't. I was looking for guidance not abuse, maybe I should look elsewhere.

[blind drunk]

I was looking for why my attempts with Tried & True recipes haven't been very successful

Then maybe we should be discussing why or how they haven't been successful. What have you tried that hasn't worked out?

[Ethan Olic]

Can I change direction and request responses from UK members. I have no problems with the US but you do have access to ingredients we dont.

[Husker]

I have claimed no superior knowledge, I freely admit my ignorance as a lack of knowledge not a state of mind or attitude.

Then lets let the water flow under the bridge, and start over

I want to understand the principles, I want to understand the chemistry, I dont want to simply follow recipees I want to know why they work or in my case haven't.

Part of the problems, is you really need to learn to walk before you run. Until you are able to effectively get the proceedures down, the building of the yeast colony, the sanitation required, etc, etc, then you really do not have the required basic knowledge you will need once you start building your own recipes.

I would strongly recommend starting with a decent sugar wash, and following the instructions. The recipes in the T&T section, have had 100's if not 1000's of people who have had success with them. Yes, there HAVE been failures, but if you do follow the instructions and have issues, THEN there are many people who will be able to help you. If you have some recipe which no-one knows about, and you really can not explain exactly what you did, then the help will be sketchy at best, because we will have absolutely no idea just what was done, and what was done wrong.

H.

[Prairiepiss]

Like I said before. Maybe you can give us some more specifics about the recipes you have used. That way we can actually give you some useful info to use. We can guess all day long. But not knowing very much about what you have done so far. That's all it will be. Guessing.

And starting out with recipes that work is always the best plan of attack. It helps you learn what works and doesn't. If you start out with stuff you just throw together. You will get help that just thrown together. By using the tried and true recipes most of the help you will ever need for them is already posted. Then after you get some good ferments under your belt of a particular recipe. Then you can start tweaking it. Add some wheat to this one or corn to that one. All the tried and true recipes are pretty much fool proof. That can be changed a little here and there to get a different outcome. UJSSM is all corn. But changing it to corn and wheat and or barley can easily be done. With the same results. But if your after a neutral. There isn't much reason to tweak somethin like the Birdwatchers recipe. It works great. And your going for a neutral so why tweak it.

If you are looking to learn about what's happening in a ferment. It's going to take a lot more then this one thread to explain it. And there are already a ton of good threads that all you need to know can be learned from.

Stick around. Learn the ropes. Your not going to find a better place on the net to learn what you need to know.

You mite have a look at the link in my signature.

Posting while others did. And most if not all the ingredients for the tried and true recipes are available to those in the UK. You may need to look a little harder. And they may be called something different. But I'm sure you can find it if you want to.

[junkyard dawg]

I have no problems with the US but you do have access to ingredients we dont.

nonsense.

Believe me, that is not the problem...

I hate to say it, but you have some serious studying to do...

but its ok, as long as you don't act like a troll, this community will have your back.

good luck...