First draft for a simple pot still... Advice wanted!

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Peppers16
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First draft for a simple pot still... Advice wanted!

Post by Peppers16 »

Hi all. First (and hopefully not last)-time poster. :)

I've been looking into building a simple pot still for a week or so now, and was hoping to try and make a beginners still that's fairly simple (I'm not a handyman, only just got my head around soldering) and cheap but is a bit more respectable than just a coil stuck in a teakettle! I want to make clear I'm a right novice so apologies for that, hopefully you guys can point me in the right direction research-wise.

I've drawn up a first draft idea based on a few plans I've seen about. But as I still don't really know how to go about calculating the volume and lengths required it's really just based on what I could make with 3m of copper pipe and a coil. If anyone could lend wisdom on what needs changing it'd be much appreciated (I know it's probably s**t but I want to work from a starting-point!) :oops:

I'm hoping to make brandy/whisky, and will try to find a 2-3 gallon stockpot or pressure-cooker somewhere (they seem hard to come by in the UK). I'm not looking for big batches at all. I'm already a home-brewer and I do this sort of thing more for pleasure than to fuel my consumption.

As a starting point: All using copper-piping: I'm hoping a 1m column (7/8 inch diameter) and 50cm of upwards Lyne-arm (5/8 inch diameter) will provide some reflux and a lighter product. Condenser will be a 5/16 inch worm in a bucket with ice and/or flowing water:
Image

As I say, this is based more on what I can do with the measures of copper you can buy at a DIY store rather than science, so correct as much as necessary.

Thanks for any input and your patience with this noob.

Cheers.
NcHooch
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Re: First draft for a simple pot still... Advice wanted!

Post by NcHooch »

I'd be inclined to use 666mm of that 2" to go STRAIGHT UP. then the other 333mm of it after a 45 elbow ...then use a 2" 90 elbow at the top ....and THEN reduce it down ....that way the vapor travels slow all the way to the top.

I think you'll find 3 gallons is gonna be on the small side for a boiler.
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DavidWatkins
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Re: First draft for a simple pot still... Advice wanted!

Post by DavidWatkins »

Your plans look solid but, if I may make a suggestion, I prefer to use liebig condensers myself.

The copper coil has tradition going for it and I understand liking tradition, but it also screams "moonshine" to anyone who looks, costs a fair chunk of change, and is rather bulky.

The liebig condenser is just a pipe inside a pipe. That 1.5m of 5/8 copper you've got coming down at a 45 degree angle can easily fit inside a 7/8 jacket with the use of a pair of reducing tees. Very simple to build, compared to a coil with no kinks, flat spots, and a constant downward slope. Two reducing tees and a second length of pipe.

Pump cold water in the top and drain warm water out the bottom. If this is in your kitchen, you can even use the sink as your water pump.

I run a 0.5m liebig condenser on my keg over a big propane burner, the inner pipe is 1/2 and the outer pipe is 3/4. Even with only that half meter, it really knocks down the steam and produces a fairly fast stream of booze.
Pot stiller, 15.5 gal and 7.5 gal, in hardcore research mode for future projects, rum lover
Soggy Bottom Boy
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Re: First draft for a simple pot still... Advice wanted!

Post by Soggy Bottom Boy »

DavidWatkins wrote:.....Pump cold water in the top and drain warm water out the bottom.....
Just the opposite, cooling water in through the lower fitting, and out of the upper fitting of the liebig.
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DavidWatkins
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Re: First draft for a simple pot still... Advice wanted!

Post by DavidWatkins »

If you do that, you're wasting fresh, cold water on distillate that has already condensed. By the time your coolant reaches the top of the liebig where the vapor temps are higher it has less effect. If you put cold water in the top, the coldest water is right where you need it most.

I could care less if the already liquid distillate is cooled an additional two degrees before it drips into the collection cup, but I damn sure need hot vapor to be condensed into liquid.
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Re: First draft for a simple pot still... Advice wanted!

Post by Soggy Bottom Boy »

I have a feeling that a lot of very experienced distillers would disagree with your thoughts on this. Happy Huffing!
"Well, ......I don't want Fop, goddamn it! I'm a Dapper Dan man!" ...Ulysses Everett McGill

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Re: First draft for a simple pot still... Advice wanted!

Post by DavidWatkins »

It isn't the first time I've not been on the most popular side. Meh, I do what works for me and never had a problem with shock cooling or huffing. Please, if your still works better the other way, keep doing it.
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Re: First draft for a simple pot still... Advice wanted!

Post by Buccaneer Bob »

+1 on the Liebig condenser. The worm-and-bucket setup is a pain to seal, and even if you manage to get a good seal, once you start wiggling things around, you'll develop a leak where the copper tubing exits the bucket that drips dirty water down into your collection jar.

Except that I have my Liebig condenser set up like Soggy Bottom Boy with the cold water coming into the bottom connection and hot water coming out the top connection. This establishes a temperature gradient along the length of the Liebig condenser that allows the hot alcohol/water vapor to cool more gradually. This keeps the hot alcohol/water vapor from coming into the condenser, hitting the coldest part of the condenser, suddenly collapsing, and "huffing".
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Re: First draft for a simple pot still... Advice wanted!

Post by OBX Phantom »

+1 on the codensing water coming into the leibeg from the bottom flowing to the top so it cools the vapor gradually so you don't get shock cooling. David Watkins, if you are going to give advise please give proper advice, No advice is better than wrong advice. I use a worm muself I prefer it because it cools my distilate much better, by the time it exits my worm it is at a nice cool 70-72 degree F, when I first started I used a liebeg, and by the time I got to the end of my run my distalate was very hot no matter how much water I tried to pump through it. By the way I have my worm sealed in my bucket with a rubber gromet, no leak prob. at all.
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Peppers16
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Re: First draft for a simple pot still... Advice wanted!

Post by Peppers16 »

Thanks all for the replies!

I'll look into the fittings I need for a Liebig condenser: I'd shied away from the idea because it looked more complicated to build than a worm, but I guess it's a neater solution if I can pull it off. Presumably I can't just use 22mm to 15mm reducers to seal the outer pipe as they won't slide over the smaller pipe all the way?

David: I'd actually planned to sort of do what you suggest with the column (you refer to it as 2" when actually it's 7/8"... Is that a problem?): Basically save some 7/8" for the upwards lyne arm before reducing. I'd wanted to reduce during the upwards part as I thought this would promote some condensation and reflux. Correct me if I'm wrong.
No disrespect to David but I'd definitely use counter-current if I go for a Liebig (i.e. flow water in opposite direction to distillate).

I'll definitely go for the largest boiler I can afford, but over here it's really hard to find pressure cookers or even stock-pots that go over 15 litres (just over 3 gallons) and and as I say, as long as I can take decent cuts I'm not in it for mass-production. Ironically I don't actually drink all that much, I just enjoy the hobby :crazy:

Cheers

EDIT: What are people's thoughts on the idea of halving the scale of this thing for a stove-top model? I.e. Instead of being a meter tall not including boiler, make it 50cm/1.5 feet tall? And lyne arm would go from 1.5m/5 feet to 75cm/2.5 feet.... It wouldn't save me a tremendous amount of money but would make the proportions a bit more sensible for my needs. Thoughts?
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Re: First draft for a simple pot still... Advice wanted!

Post by Buccaneer Bob »

OBX Phantom wrote:David Watkins, if you are going to give advise please give proper advice, No advice is better than wrong advice.
Everybody's entitled to make a little mistake once in awhile, particularly if it's not something life-threatening. Now, I've never actually made a mistake, myself :roll: , but I can understand how these things happen.
Peppers16 wrote:Presumably I can't just use 22mm to 15mm reducers to seal the outer pipe as they won't slide over the smaller pipe all the way?
Those reducers sometimes have a little nub or rib that prevents full insertion of the smaller pipe, but you should be able to do a little light sanding/filing on the nub/rib to allow the smaller pipe to pass through.
I'd actually planned to sort of do what you suggest with the column (you refer to it as 2" when actually it's 7/8"... Is that a problem?): Basically save some 7/8" for the upwards lyne arm before reducing. I'd wanted to reduce during the upwards part as I thought this would promote some condensation and reflux ... What are people's thoughts on the idea of halving the scale of this thing for a stove-top model? I.e. Instead of being a meter tall not including boiler, make it 50cm/1.5 feet tall? And lyne arm would go from 1.5m/5 feet to 75cm/2.5 feet.... It wouldn't save me a tremendous amount of money but would make the proportions a bit more sensible for my needs. Thoughts?
You can use 7/8 inch for the riser and Lyne arm. You can also scale down to 75 cm length.

As far as reflux is concerned, the reduction you're talking about won't make much difference one way or the other. About the best you're going to be able to accomplish with no packing or cooling water in the riser is cutting down on the risk of puking.

Some guys say that the design of the riser and Lyne arm can bear on the quality/flavor of your distillate, but I think there are a million other factors that play a much bigger role in your final product.

Things like the recipe you use, the quality of your ingredients, how you make your cuts, and so on will be much more important than the geometry of your pot still head, assuming you come up with a design that minimizes the risk of puking.
I'll definitely go for the largest boiler I can afford, but over here it's really hard to find pressure cookers or even stock-pots that go over 15 litres (just over 3 gallons) and and as I say, as long as I can take decent cuts I'm not in it for mass-production. Ironically I don't actually drink all that much, I just enjoy the hobby :crazy:
If you do the math, you'll see why everybody who's doing this stuff is going to point you towards something bigger if you can find it. After all is said and done, you'll probably average about 1.5 liters of liquor per run, 2 liters absolute maximum.

Now, that's nothing to sneeze at, obviously, but you'd be amazed at how quickly you can go through that much liquor, especially after your friends and family find out how great your hooch has gotten lately.
Peppers16
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Re: First draft for a simple pot still... Advice wanted!

Post by Peppers16 »

Thanks for the advice, it's all been duly noted and greatly appreciated! I'll try my best to source something closer to 5 gallons (hopefully I can get something cheaper than $80 :( )

Following all your suggestions I've posted a revised plan in the design part of the forum:
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 16&t=34225

I'm still asking the sizing question (in part because I hadn't seen your reply :oops: )

Cheers!
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Re: First draft for a simple pot still... Advice wanted!

Post by Buccaneer Bob »

Peppers16 wrote:Following all your suggestions I've posted a revised plan in the design part of the forum:
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 16&t=34225
Looks good to me.

There are about a hundred threads here on the forum recommending folks scrap their thermometers. They're fun to watch, but don't put too much stock in how they read. You want to monitor what's dripping out of the business end of your still instead.
Peppers16
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Re: First draft for a simple pot still... Advice wanted!

Post by Peppers16 »

Hi, me again!

I was hoping to get some advice on two points:

1) Could I use these male and female fittings (or something similar) to make the condenser detachable?
http://www.plumbingforless.co.uk/15mmx1 ... p-542.html
http://www.plumbingforless.co.uk/15mmx1 ... p-538.html

2) I'm having a lot of trouble working out what fittings to use to connect hoses to the condenser... Something like this maybe?
http://www.plumbingforless.co.uk/15mm-d ... -7058.html

There's plenty out there for connecting to those metallic 'tap connectors' but nothing obvious to just connecting to a good old hose... Or am I overthinking this: Should I just find a hose that'll stretch over 15mm or 10mm pipe?

Thanks as always.
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Re: First draft for a simple pot still... Advice wanted!

Post by toast860 »

im a newbie. i went thru alot trying to make a worm connect to the arm . i made so it was 3 piece so that with unions and flourpaste over them. the hardest thing to do with out the gromets or spacer between each coil . is sealing ur tube to the buckets cuz i kinda have to wiggly the thing around to get it lvl then it leaks. i have only done a cleaning run on my but i found out how hard it is to get the worm condser lvl enough not to huff. i just gave up and now im makeing a liebig and i dont have t or anything so i did some fab work and i think i got it. but my advice to u is listen read and take a hammer to the worm bucket idea.
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Re: First draft for a simple pot still... Advice wanted!

Post by jholmz »

[quote="Peppers16"]Thanks all for the replies!

I'll look into the fittings I need for a Liebig condenser: I'd shied away from the idea because it looked more complicated to build than a worm, but I guess it's a neater solution if I can pull it off. Presumably I can't just use 22mm to 15mm reducers to seal the outer pipe as they won't slide over the smaller pipe all the way?

on the fitting there is a little lip inside that is easily removed with a dremel tool or round file to allow the inner smaller pipe to go all the way through
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Re: First draft for a simple pot still... Advice wanted!

Post by toast860 »

yea after u file the lip down it it goes right thru. i made my with a union on one in and just drilled some hole for the water flow and solder so 3/8 tubeing in the hole works great
if you cant build a paper airplane, then leave the rocket alone.
its like wiping before you poop, dont make sense.
Peppers16
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Re: First draft for a simple pot still... Advice wanted!

Post by Peppers16 »

I've gone ahead with this plan and thought I'd post a photo of the still as it currently looks. Forgive the cluttered workspace (the workplace was formerly used to advertise free apples).

Image

As you can see I went ahead with the Liebig suggestion and it works perfectly in my testing so far! I also opted to make the condenser detachable (I'm going to assume until further notice than a few cm of brass fitting along the Lyne arm is not realistically a health concern). I'll use some PTFE tape to seal the threads.

My next challenge is going to be attaching this to a stockpot. Any suggestions on how this could be done without need for complex tools would be appreciated. I've seen some people who have simply used a compression fitting either side of the lid.
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