Tracking my latest UJSSM run

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sounder_4
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Tracking my latest UJSSM run

Post by sounder_4 »

I thought I'd start a thread to track my latest run of UJSSM in my quest to figure out HTF to get it right. My last thread was quite entertaining to lottsa folks, good thing I gotta thick skin :mrgreen:

My plan is to produce a couple of gallons of spirit to test a new (for me) aging process. I'm no longer interested in throwing $$$ at retail barrels that are good for maybe 2 loads. Yesterday I went into my cabinet shop, pulled some Quercus alba from the scrap bin and cut up some 6" by 3/4" square sticks. Wrapped them in foil and toasted in the oven 3 hours @ 400 F. They will be charred with a propane torch and dropped into one gallon glass jugs.

Today I started 2 buckets fermenting: each bucket 6 gal water, 8.4 lbs sugar, 8.4 lbs cracked (washed) corn, EC-1118 yeast. The proportions mirror UJSSM's recipe, scaled up to 6 gals. Starting numbers:

SG (temp adj) - 1.060
Pot ABV - 8%

I plan to strip run down to 20% abv. I did some math to predict yield:

6 gals @ 8% abv = .48 gals 100% abv
stripping to 20 % = .48 * 80% = .38 gals
2 buckets = .76 gals of 80% on first stripping run.

Is this correct?
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Re: Tracking my latest UJSSM run

Post by aquavita »

Math is off...

Use the calc (rads) on mothership. http://homedistiller.org/calcs/rad14701" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
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Re: Tracking my latest UJSSM run

Post by sounder_4 »

I used the calculator, it says my numbers are about right. Did you make a distinction between total volume including the sugar, and total water required? I added 6 gals of water, which indicates 6.65 gal total volume including the sugar. I think you assumed the total volume was 6 gals including sugar.
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Re: Tracking my latest UJSSM run

Post by sounder_4 »

2.5 days into fermenting I'm seeing a thick frothy cap on one bucket, and no cap on the other. Both buckets were loaded at the same time with identical ingredients. EC-1118 yeast was mixed in a single starter batch and split exactly evenly between the buckets. Both buckets were sanitized with star-san, cracked corn was double washed. Room temp varies between 60 and 70 degrees over a 24 hour period. SG has dropped equally on both buckets, potential ABV having lowered from 8% to 5% in the 2.5 days. I guess as long as the ferment is progressing equally in both buckets I shouldn't be concerned, but I'm curious as to why a thick frothy cap on one and clear liquid on the other....never seen this before.
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Re: Tracking my latest UJSSM run

Post by sounder_4 »

aquavita wrote:Math is off...

Use the calc (rads) on mothership. http://homedistiller.org/calcs/rad14701" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
I think I misunderstood how to use the Distillate To Water Calculator on the RADs page: http://homedistiller.org/calcs/rad14701" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Specifically, I don't know what percentage to plug in as there is no definition given for the following: "...through a still that collects its distillate at___%"

What does this percentage represent? How do I determine what percentage to place in the blank box?
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Re: Tracking my latest UJSSM run

Post by rad14701 »

That's actually not the most useful calculator and just my adaptation of one of Tony Acklands original calculators... You need the resulting SG's from a fermented wash or the estimate from the sugar wash calculator in that box... Example (from memory)... Adding 2 pounds of sugar per gallon gives a potential yield of ~14% ABV... You plug that 14% into that calculator and go from there... But the reality of it is that you take an OG (Original Gravity) reading and then a FG (Final Gravity) reading and calculate your actual (or close enough) %ABV manually or using the Alcohol Content of the Wash calculator and plug that number in there...
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Re: Tracking my latest UJSSM run

Post by sounder_4 »

Finished stripping 1st gen. Total charge 11 gals. Total yield ~2.15 gals of 45% ABV. I estimate I left .5 galswash in each of the 2 buckets (I didn't want to pour dead yeast into the boiler).

2nd gen now fermenting, 2 buckets each with: 3 gals backset, 3 gals tap water, 8.4 lbs cane sugar, and replaced spent corn. 8% Potential ABV. Here's the rub: pH tested at 2.95 (newly calibrated Hanna HI 98128). After 20 hours, weak ferment as judged by very slow co2 release. Potential ABV still around 7.5%. Added 3 tblsp CaCO3 to each bucket which precipitated a rapid CO2 release. After 15 mins Ph had increased to ~3.95. Hopefully that is sufficient to sustain yeast growth.

Is the low pH in a 2nd gen wash typical? Smiley says that yeast does well in a low (3.3) pH backset wash....but other readings suggest that is too low. My city water is 8.75pH, so I'm having a hard time understanding how 3 gals of 8.75 pH and 3 gals of 3.0 pH backset adds up to 2.95 wash pH?? It just doesn't add up. Regardless, I added the CaCO3 and will check in 24 hrs to see if ferment has picked up.

I'm fermenting in plastic food grade fermenters with lids that have a small hole for an air gap, which I am not using. Should I be concerned about Acetobacter contamination because I'm not air-tight? I would think that my low pH would prevent any bacterial growth. Having a hard time finding info on Acetobacter in no-cook sugar washes.
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Re: Tracking my latest UJSSM run

Post by T-Pee »

Get the pH up to ~5 and it'll take right off. Yes, this is normal for successive generations of UJ using backset. Been dealing with it myself. I adjust at the beginning of the ferment to keep the yeasties happy.

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Re: Tracking my latest UJSSM run

Post by sounder_4 »

I went back and re-read the UJSSM recipe...no mention of pH adjustment. Setback is highly acidic, I don't understand how he uses setback without additives to raise Ph. I would consider Ph adjustment to be part of the recipe.
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Re: Tracking my latest UJSSM run

Post by rad14701 »

50% backset is a bit much for a recipe like UJSSM... You'll have better luck, and require less pH adjustment if you stick closer to 25% - 30%... As mentioned, get the pH up before the yeast go belly up and the ferment should perk right up... Wait too long and the yeast colony will get stressed and die... And there are times when, after the yeast colony dies, even adding new yeast won't help because the yeast expel compounds that make for a toxic environment for most any yeast...
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Re: Tracking my latest UJSSM run

Post by sounder_4 »

Added more CaCO3, pH up to 4.5, slow bubbling indicates some live yeast activity. Maybe too late, dunno. Will wait to see.
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Re: Tracking my latest UJSSM run

Post by Prairiepiss »

I've noticed that some have Ph problems with this recipe. While others don't.
Using to much backset is asking for Ph problems. Personaly I haven't had Ph problems with UJSSM. I don't know if maybe its the base water used? Maybe the minerals in it having a Ph buffering effect? Or different corn supplies having the same effect? You will see people that go 10 generations without problems. While others can't get through generation #2.

But once you figure out what works best for you. You should be good.
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sounder_4
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Re: Tracking my latest UJSSM run

Post by sounder_4 »

Thanks P. I'm gonna cut back to 30% backset for gen 3. I don't mind tossing CaCO3 into the fermenter...it's cheap. I'm just concerned that too much is going to cause off flavors, or at least change the flavor characteristics in an undesirable way.

But I agree it is what it is and I have to figure it out.
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Re: Tracking my latest UJSSM run

Post by sounder_4 »

3 days into the ferment, and 2 days after adding CaCO3, seeing a light foam cap and subtle bubbling. I guess that means the yeast are happy again. Potential ABV has dropped from 8 to 5 so it looks like it may take a full week or more to complete. Next gen I'm going to pitch the CaCO3 into the backset before dumping into the fermentors....I think I prolly killed off some yeast by not doing it that way on this gen.
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Re: Tracking my latest UJSSM run

Post by sltm1 »

I recommend one to two tbs of Calcium Carbonate every other generation (per 5gal wash). Seems to be the ticket to get to the 5th gen sucessfully.
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Re: Tracking my latest UJSSM run

Post by bentstick »

never adjusted Ph with my UJ,I do use well water that is on the hard side,25% backset (always),Use a whiskey yeast,and it is on gen 24 now,never had to repitch the yeast since I quitt messing with it,just cracked corn,froze sweet corn,sugar,backset
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Re: Tracking my latest UJSSM run

Post by sounder_4 »

After gen 6 my last time around, I had a huge glob of dead yeast mixed with the corn. How does one get to gen 24 without having a half-bucket of dead yeast? Do you remove dead yeast periodically? If so, how?
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Re: Tracking my latest UJSSM run

Post by T-Pee »

I've got Gen 7 in the fermenter and I hadn't thought much about this but you're right.

Mebbe scoop the corn out into a clean bucket along with a starter amount of the yeast cake which has a combination of live and dead yeast, rinse the remainder out, reload and continue on. Seems awfully simple but maybe someone can point out any pitfalls we're not seeing.

tp
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Re: Tracking my latest UJSSM run

Post by bentstick »

sounder_4 wrote:After gen 6 my last time around, I had a huge glob of dead yeast mixed with the corn. How does one get to gen 24 without having a half-bucket of dead yeast? Do you remove dead yeast periodically? If so, how?
I do scoop out about 10-15% of the corn every 2-3 runs and replace,I would assume it takes some of the "dead" or dormant yeastie beasties with it and as far as I have learned or understand the dead yeast are (nutrients) for the live ones!
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Re: Tracking my latest UJSSM run

Post by T-Pee »

Is the yeast cake under the settled corn increasing with each generation?

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Re: Tracking my latest UJSSM run

Post by bentstick »

Not noticeable if it is!
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Re: Tracking my latest UJSSM run

Post by sounder_4 »

Yeah, the dead yeast are piling up deeper with each successive gen.
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Re: Tracking my latest UJSSM run

Post by T-Pee »

Well then, after this ferment I'll be scooping out the corn and part of the yeast cake. The rest will be rinsed out and a new ferment done on the original corn/yeast cake. It really should take off again as usual just with more room in the fermenter. My thoughts.

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Re: Tracking my latest UJSSM run

Post by plaztikjezuz »

sounder_4 wrote:After gen 6 my last time around, I had a huge glob of dead yeast mixed with the corn. How does one get to gen 24 without having a half-bucket of dead yeast? Do you remove dead yeast periodically? If so, how?
You would wash the yeast. Then make a yeast starter.

**Make sure you wash/clean and sanitize everything you use. Use real cleaners like Powdered Brewers Wash and real sanitizers like Iodophor or Star San.**

Washing.

I use 3 or 4 quart mason jars.
the mason jar funnel.
funnel for gallon jug.
spoon or ladle.
and a gallon of boiled water chilled to 38-40F (4C). You want to boil it for at least 20 minutes to remove the oxygen. Keep it sterile.
a glass gallon jug to keep the water in.
a glass gallon to collect the yeast in.
a can of pasteurized beer like Bud or Pabst, no beer in clear bottles, they generally contain no hops.

Scoop out the muck from the bottom of the fermenter with a sanitized spoon
Fill the mason jars 1/3 to 1/2 full.
top off with the sterile deoxygenated chilled water.
Cap the jar with a sanitized lid and shake it up enough to get everything mixed up with the water.
place in the fridge for an hour.
Then decant the liquid in to the gallon jug with the funnel being careful to leave any solids like corn and dead yeast in the mason jar to be discarded.
Now you can repeat until you have your gallon full of washed yeast water.
then place the gallon in the fridge until the yeast drops out (few days) then siphon off the water
If you are going to make a wash in a few days then make a yeast starter.
If you are not going to use it soon transfer the yeast slurry to 1/2 gallon or quart and top it off with the can of beer. The yeast will stay good in the fridge like this for 4 months to a year depending on the strain.
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Re: Tracking my latest UJSSM run

Post by sounder_4 »

Seems like a lot of work just to make a yeast starter. Yeast is inexpensive, why wouldn't you simply throw away the dead yeast muck and continue with the next gen wash, adding fresh yeast if necessary? Not sure what the point is of what you are describing.
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Re: Tracking my latest UJSSM run

Post by bellybuster »

you should never have to add yeast to continue generations. If buildup is becoming an issue simply scoop some out and dispose of it. Not a problem. Same as spent corn, simply scoop it out.
I think the above washing post was a misunderstanding. Washing and saving yeast is way too much to go thru for some bread yeast
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Re: Tracking my latest UJSSM run

Post by plaztikjezuz »

bellybuster wrote:you should never have to add yeast to continue generations. If buildup is becoming an issue simply scoop some out and dispose of it. Not a problem. Same as spent corn, simply scoop it out.
I think the above washing post was a misunderstanding. Washing and saving yeast is way too much to go thru for some bread yeast
Some people buy those White Labs liquid yeast tubes and those are not cheap.
We sell them for $7.50 a pop which has 100 billion yeast cells in it or enough to do a 5 gallon 1.40 wash.
White Labs has the yeast from some well know distilleries but to use them you need to prop up the count or buy two vials.

I also suggest using wine yeast over bread yeast. dried wine yeast is not much more and ferments cleaner and to a lower gravity. Taste better, bread yeast is flat and lifeless.
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Re: Tracking my latest UJSSM run

Post by T-Pee »

plaztikjezuz wrote:I also suggest using wine yeast over bread yeast. dried wine yeast is not much more and ferments cleaner and to a lower gravity. Taste better, bread yeast is flat and lifeless.
Ummm...no. I think you have that completely backwards.

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Re: Tracking my latest UJSSM run

Post by plaztikjezuz »

T-Pee wrote:
plaztikjezuz wrote:I also suggest using wine yeast over bread yeast. dried wine yeast is not much more and ferments cleaner and to a lower gravity. Taste better, bread yeast is flat and lifeless.
Ummm...no. I think you have that completely backwards.

tp
Nope.

I have done my fair share of yeast tests and since bread yeast is cheap. I have tried it in my things. Beer, wine, cider, mead, and spirits.

Bread yeast is always very flat tasting, not many esters, or interesting things going on. Since esters carry over into the spirit why would I use a low ester yeast?

I am not saying that bread yeast makes bad washes, I am simply saying there is something better, and it does not cost much more.

Beer yeast ale or lager IMO makes a better product than bread yeast, but it does cost more then wine yeast. These yeast have been selected over time because they taste better than other yeast. While bread yeast has been selected over time to make gas very quickly and not so much for taste.

The way I look at it is the better tasting the wash is before going in the extractor; the better product I will get on the way out.
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Re: Tracking my latest UJSSM run

Post by bellybuster »

tens of thousands of hobby distillers must be wrong. 2 posts up you mention you sell yeast, of course you don't like bread yeast.
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