Cutting proof

[Dante827]

Hi All, I tried to cut down the proof of a 136 proof down to 80. I followed the Calc formula and put 441ML of 136 proof into 309ML filtered water. The result turned cloudy and measured slightly higher than 80. The question is - why has it turned cloudy and can I clean it up?

[The KYChemist]

Use distilled water, next time. The minerals, I believe, in the filtered water will cause the cloudiness.

[Dante827]

Ok thanks, any ideas on how to clear it up?

[Prairiepiss]

Or tails from bad cuts. Add alcohol to water. And distilled water.

The calculators usually get you close. But its always a little high for me. Which is better then low. You can always add a little more water. Only way to take it out is to distill it again.

[Prairiepiss]

If it doesn't clear up with time. Then it won't. Chilling may help. But may cloud back up when warmed.

[tim_nz]

See also this wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chill_filtering" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[S-Cackalacky]

Not sure you can clear it. Drink it as it is - no problem, or rerun it.

Posted while Piss was posting.

[Prairiepiss]

And by the way. There are many many other treads about cloudy spirits. And they pretty much say the same thing. The search tools are wonderful tools.

[tinplatersteve]

There will be a small % of the water that will dissolve into the alcohol, the proofing calcs can not account for that. That is why your result was a slightly higher reading. If you have 50 ml of alcohol and 50 ml of water and mix, the end result will be slightly less than 100 ml. I think that is right,

[The KYChemist]

There will be a small % of the water that will dissolve into the alcohol, the proofing calcs can not account for that. That is why your result was a slightly higher reading. If you have 50 ml of alcohol and 50 ml of water and mix, the end result will be slightly less than 100 ml. I think that is right,

This doesn't make sense to me... I can see it happening, for example, with sugar and water. If you dissolve 1cup of sugar in 3cups of water, you'll likely get a little less than four cups. This is to account for the air space between the sugar granules. It may not be a noticeable amount, bit that makes sense to mr. But with two liquids, I just don't see how that happens, except for evaporation. If I'm wrong, as is mostly the case, please educate me. These are the kins of things I really like to learn.

[BDF]

There will be a small % of the water that will dissolve into the alcohol, the proofing calcs can not account for that. That is why your result was a slightly higher reading. If you have 50 ml of alcohol and 50 ml of water and mix, the end result will be slightly less than 100 ml. I think that is right,

wut

[Prairiepiss]

There will be a small % of the water that will dissolve into the alcohol, the proofing calcs can not account for that. That is why your result was a slightly higher reading. If you have 50 ml of alcohol and 50 ml of water and mix, the end result will be slightly less than 100 ml. I think that is right,

This doesn't make sense to me... I can see it happening, for example, with sugar and water. If you dissolve 1cup of sugar in 3cups of water, you'll likely get a little less than four cups. This is to account for the air space between the sugar granules. It may not be a noticeable amount, bit that makes sense to mr. But with two liquids, I just don't see how that happens, except for evaporation. If I'm wrong, as is mostly the case, please educate me. These are the kins of things I really like to learn.

This has been said here before.

Yes the combined volume of a set amount of water and alcohol. Will be slightly lower then the total of the two separate liquids.

The reason is the molecules are different sizes. When the different sizes combine. They can pack into a smaller space. And through chemical reactions between the two liquids. They combine some molecules taking up less space.

[tinplatersteve]

That us a much better way to explain the reaction. Well done Prairiepiss. Also, the reaction is exothermic which means it creates heat, but I don't know if it would be enough to need to adjust your hydrometer reading.

[T-Pee]

There will be a small % of the water that will dissolve into the alcohol, the proofing calcs can not account for that. That is why your result was a slightly higher reading. If you have 50 ml of alcohol and 50 ml of water and mix, the end result will be slightly less than 100 ml. I think that is right,

This doesn't make sense to me... I can see it happening, for example, with sugar and water. If you dissolve 1cup of sugar in 3cups of water, you'll likely get a little less than four cups. This is to account for the air space between the sugar granules. It may not be a noticeable amount, bit that makes sense to mr. But with two liquids, I just don't see how that happens, except for evaporation. If I'm wrong, as is mostly the case, please educate me. These are the kins of things I really like to learn.

This has been said here before.

Yes the combined volume of a set amount of water and alcohol. Will be slightly lower then the total of the two separate liquids.

The reason is the molecules are different sizes. When the different sizes combine. They can pack into a smaller space. And through chemical reactions between the two liquids. They combine some molecules taking up less space.

Similar to adding sand to a jar of rocks. The sand fills in between the rocks.

tp

[Braz]

That us a much better way to explain the reaction. Well done Prairiepiss. Also, the reaction is exothermic which means it creates heat, but I don't know if it would be enough to need to adjust your hydrometer reading.

Yes, it will generate quite enough heat to throw your readings off. I've seen 10+degree(F) changes.

[The KYChemist]

Good info guys... Did some independent research, after the responses. Still a little hard to wrap my head around, even with the analogies. I usually get stuff like this easily, too. Its like"POOF!", some of your liquid just vanished, even though it really didn't. You probably get a density different from both the alcohol and the water, as well. On side note, this makes me want to do temperature experiments, as well. Different ratios of alcohol and water, along with different volumes.

[rad14701]

The higher the %ABV of the spirits, the greater the resulting volume discrepancy... I see this all the time when diluting 95% ABV neutral spirits... And the increase in temperature due to exothermic reaction can be substantial... Room temperature water with neutral spirits added with make a heavy glass bottle quite warm to the touch...

[S-Cackalacky]

Inerstin' stuff. I been wonderin' why it is that I put 4 oz of distilled water and 28 oz of spirits in a quart jar and the jar's still not full.

[The KYChemist]

Plus, with the exothermics, I've noticed my bottles being warm as well. I just figured it was my gallon of distilled water being warm.

[shadylane]

If it doesn't clear up with time. Then it won't. Chilling may help. But may cloud back up when warmed.

As you pointed out, when high proof shine is cut with water it will cloud up for a little while.
If the water has minerals or the shine has oils, then the cloudiness will be temperature sensitive.

[rad14701]

Ok, this is the third topic I'm posting this in... It appears that we have several topics going that are related to the exact same issue...

I haven't checked yet but I've been kicking around the notion that the miscibility of water and ethanol has something to do with the variance in %ABV during dilution... My spirits are always a few %ABV higher than calculated but I have never checked to see if the volumes match with what the total should be... The higher the %ABV of the spirits, the more variation I experience... I have seen 95% spirits diluted in accordance with several calculators be as much as +5% higher or thereabouts... This seemingly falls in line with the absorption rate of ethanol and water... I may do a bit of playing with my calculators to see if this can be accounted for when I have some free time...

[DeepSouth]

I have started proofing solely based on weight using the TTB tables. Once you get a temperature corrected true proof, it is pretty easy weigh the correct amount of water to add to lower to whatever proof you desire.

http://www.ttb.gov/foia/gauging_manual_toc.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Since the tables are for larger quantities, the values can be divided by ten for the amounts a home distiller would encounter. Proofing by weight can be much more accurate than proofing by volume. Most people don't worry too much about the accuracy for personal use though.