tails seem to start early

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nubourne
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tails seem to start early

Post by nubourne »

I have a two gallon pot still and a simple wash running through.

Wash is 5 gallons water
2x 5g packets of red star champagne yeast
a little corn meal or malt rye (crushed)
and about 4 pounds sugar

5 days looking at 1.000

Siphon from carboy into boiler.

first run:

knock off the foreshots and start collecting. everything looks good but tails seem to start early. As I filter into jar i can see it looks slightly oily coming in. This seems to be about 75% of the run. taste isnt horrible but not desirable? proof isnt as hi at this point. Its seems that I maybe getting more water?

Im running as low temp as i can on my electric and its coming at moderate drip. not slow but definitely not fast.

I am in the country and have a well. If using tap water could this be the reason?

Please let me know if I've left anything out.

Regards.
Bob Loblaw
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Re: tails seem to start early

Post by Bob Loblaw »

That's not much sugar for a 5g wash. Parent site calculator says roughly 5.6% alcohol, which when run in your 2g still is only going to give you about 2 -3 cups of distillate coming off a pot still at 70% ABV. So you will be into tails pretty quick. How much did you pull off?
Easiest way to avoid being on a TTB list is to not purchase a boiler, full column, or condensor from a retailer. Build your own.
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nubourne
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Re: tails seem to start early

Post by nubourne »

little less then half a pint of 55 - 60 percent (serveral different batches with same result) but then it drops pretty quick and i get a second full pint of some what oily that measures down in the 40%
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nubourne
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Re: tails seem to start early

Post by nubourne »

Its possible I've used more sugar . I haven't kept very good records after my first few months. I am now though.
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nubourne
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Re: tails seem to start early

Post by nubourne »

and by 2 gallon i mean i probably run 1.5 gallons through at a time. Two gallons on this home made rig would over flow. I've got a new 5 gallon on the way.
Bob Loblaw
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Re: tails seem to start early

Post by Bob Loblaw »

Well, sounds like you need to keep better records! But the math says 5.6% of 1.5g is something like 10 oz of pure alcohol. So at 55-60% you are going to get max 20 oz. So you are probably well into tails by the time you get to a second pint. Especially at 40%. I usually end spirit runs at about that point.

I think it's really hard to work with a boiler that small - especially if you've got a relatively low ABV mash.
Easiest way to avoid being on a TTB list is to not purchase a boiler, full column, or condensor from a retailer. Build your own.
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nubourne
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Re: tails seem to start early

Post by nubourne »

I have a 5 gallon all copper still on the way, this should help. And trust me, I hear ya on the small vessel. It is a giant pain but as a complete novice I wanted something to test processes out on without a huge commitment of cash. Results haven't been terrible so I'm moving up.

So you don't think it would have anything to do with the country well water or anything specific to the yeast? The water is great to drink. very little to make you think it isnt clean. I've been using about 10g of yellow red star packs or levans EC 1118

Now to be honest about the records (not like I haven't been paying attention, I did 5 years of college :) ) but its been fairly confusing with the wealth of information. I've tried batches with 4 or 5 pounds of sugar in 5 gallons and I've tried double that. I've been told to double it but the time i did my yeast never took off. I presume they died. I've now started to add sugar in batches. initial with the pitching of yeast and another 3 to 4 pounds 2 or 3 days in.

Im still confused on the concept of pitching yeast. I've been reading and watching brewers. (good ones) and noone gives specifics. I used to make bread. Lots of it. and I learned to put bread yeast into a small container of water at about 90F and pitch yeast while stirring the water gently as to not get clumps. Let it sit for 15 minutes, watch yeast start to activate and then dump into main fermenter. Except when I'm doing this now with champagne yeasts or ale yeasts I'm not getting ANYTHING to activate. So I've started just pitching right into the fermenter and stirring. Again, not great results. no fermentation for almost 2 days. Then everything starts to bubble at a reasonable pace.

Enough can't be said about having someone to help direct you. Although this site is a huge resource of people that have been there and done that, sometimes it can be very difficult to extract the specific information about the process.
Bob Loblaw
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Re: tails seem to start early

Post by Bob Loblaw »

If you are just starting out, I would go with one of the tried and true recipes. If your yeast is dying, there's more likely an issue with nutrients than the water. A recipe like birdwatchers has tomato paste in it, Wineos has DAP/gypsum/epsom salts. I've used birdwatchers, it ferments like crazy.
Easiest way to avoid being on a TTB list is to not purchase a boiler, full column, or condensor from a retailer. Build your own.
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nubourne
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Re: tails seem to start early

Post by nubourne »

my latest this weekend was three different types of apple drinks. Hopefully one will smooth out into a wine (5 gallons pasteurized fresh apple cider) I've invested in some items for that pectins etc. but most importantly i discovered yeast nutrient.
So as I came home today I am pleasantly surprised to see my fermenters bubbling away quite vigorously. I will update in a few days on how the brandy runs
rad14701
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Re: tails seem to start early

Post by rad14701 »

Quit dicking around trying to get fancy and stick with Tried and True recipes until you get your shit together... Otherwise you just wasting everyones time, including your own... It's just that simple... You're playing with too many "what if" variables and expecting us to give you the answers you want... My advice is the answer you need... Slow down, pay better attention, and do more research...
whiskymonster
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Re: tails seem to start early

Post by whiskymonster »

+1 rad.

Straight to the point as always!

Nubourne, rad may not always play nice with the other kids, but he knows his shit.
Follow the link in his signature and try an all bran.
Almost impossible to fuck up with, dirt cheap, clean and fast, and the information you get can then be compared to the wealth of info in that very same thread.

Make yourself a faux wheat whisky with three pot runs.
First one, keep a sample from the hearts and rerun the rest.
Second run, keep a sample and rerun.
Third run will give you very close to neutral.

Taste test all three runs.

Doesn't matter if you like the results, but you will learn a shitload in short order.
And it will sort out in your own head if your wash or your still is at fault.

That's half the battle. Searching for answers is a lot easier if you know what your questions are!

Then starts the real fun of trying new and weird variations!

Running failed batches of cider, and jam brandy when I need more jars are becoming the norm at my place!
It's much easier to cut a bit off than weld a bit on...
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nubourne
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Re: tails seem to start early

Post by nubourne »

lol @whiskeymonster :)

thanks guys, I appreciate the advice. I'm on my third read through the parent site. So far I've only done stripping and a 2nd spirit run. Just not enough to run yet.

I have a new still on the way that should help with consistency and testing. I will check back soon with results. Tried and true it is.
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nubourne
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Re: tails seem to start early

Post by nubourne »

for what it's worth my brandy is still bubbling away but my wine slowed significantly on the 3.5 th day. It may all get ran soon enough haha

my last wash was malted rye and sugar. from five gallons, on the second run i got about 1 pint of 80% and 1 pint of 50%. Hopefully im on the right track. I think in addition to increasing knowledge , a better crafted still should help alot.
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