My Stash After 9 months but....

[Wiz of Oz]

I am so mad. Just spent 45 mins putting together my post and I closed my tab on Firefox and nothing was saved! So here I go again! Here is the picture to go along with the title:

Everything looks good and everything went really well, from build to ferment to the running of the still itself and I can only thank this forum and the people in it for my success.

I had 4 fermenters going at a time. Washes were usually 25-27L using white sugar, feedgrade molasses, 6L of hot dunder poured of yeast trub for nutrients, bakers yeast, water and calcium once ph starting going. Once the fermentation was done I would move them to a colder location and leave them sit 2-3 weeks to settle. Then I would rack into boiler and do a stripping run on my still (50L stainless pot w/36" liebig) and start a new wash using some of the hot dunder, I did this for each of the 4 washes and then combined those stripped runs together and do a spirit run. I usually yield approx 6-7 liters of hearts( my cuts are usually between 80-83% abv and 57-60% abv), I would keep the 40% abv to 20% abv and add to my next spirit run, fores were kept for solvent and the remaining heads and tails were put into my fients jug. The picture is all my hearts varying from the 40% abv whitedog to 50% abv-58% abv on oak anywhere from 6 months old to just over a month. Each gallon has between 15-20 medium toast usa oak cubes, not chips.

Here's the thing. It really doesnt taste all that good, will I drink it? Yes, it is not the best taste but its nice and smooth with no burn. Perhaps my palate has been destroyed by years of drinking Bacardi White and coke, lol! The 6 month old white dog reminds me of Cachaca. Too me its kind of a yeasty flavor profile. The 6 month old oaked is better but still has that yeasty back note on the palate. I am really hoping time will help out here.

Should I have racked my wash and let it settle again and then rack into boiler? Was it the fact the I never got rid of the yeast trub in my fermenters? I always added hot dunder out of the boiler over the yeast trub on the bottom and started a new wash. Would love to hear what people have to say!

Again my thanks to everyone who participates on this forum as I would not have the nice stock that I do. I just want to figure out how to make this coming winters work taste even better!

[Danespirit]

I would say... nice..!

[still_stirrin]

....I usually yield approx 6-7 liters of hearts (my cuts are usually between 80-83% abv and 57-60% abv)...my hearts varying from the 40% abv whitedog to 50% abv-58% abv on oak anywhere from 6 months old to just over a month. Each gallon has between 15-20 medium toast usa oak cubes, not chips.

Its hard to rely on cuts made solely by %ABV. It depends more on the fractions of the wash as to what will come over when. I've had heads and hearts at the same %ABV and I've had early tails with the same %ABV as my late hearts. You just can't rely on proof alone. You have to taste and smell your cut points.

...Here's the thing. It really doesnt taste all that good...Perhaps my palate has been destroyed by years of drinking Bacardi White and coke...

Maybe. But really it's a paradigm shift. Perhaps what you like in the taste is the heads and tails that the commercial guys leave in. When you taste your product, it's different....hopefully because you've made good cuts. But then again, maybe you didn't

...The 6 month old white dog reminds me of Cachaca. Too me its kind of a yeasty flavor profile. The 6 month old oaked is better but still has that yeasty back note on the palate. I am really hoping time will help out here.

Time is a great "healer" for sure. But I suspect that you've carried in some of your tails into your product and that is what you're tasting. Oaking will help. And time is the best.

To me, this just sounds like inexperience revealing itself. But the best way to get the experience is to practice. As you've said, you will drink it. Perhaps even blend it with other spirits. So it is not wasted. It is a learning experience.

...Would love to hear what people have to say!

OK, now listen closely....I believe you would be best to follow one of the Tried & True recipes "to the letter" and practice the ferment process and gain control over that. Make the same thing over and over until you can do it in your sleep.

And while you're doing that, practice running your still. Learn the quirks (they all have them) and the techniques to consistent production. If it a rum, then stick with that until you can teach us all "how it's done". Whiskey....conquer your wooding and aging processes....how much and how long it's needed.

Summarizing, you're not making Bacardi and coke. They do it already, and they're quite successful at it. You're making your own product. Learn it...and love it.
ss

[Wiz of Oz]

Hey SS I guess I should have mentioned that I did all my cuts based on taste and they have all been in those abv ranges when I checked after tasting but I have to admit that I do find making those cut points difficult perhaps I am going too far into tails and my inexperienced palate is part of my issue.

The main reason I have not gone and tried one of the tried and true is due to the fact that those rum recipes seem to be for a heavy full bodied rum and I dont like full heavy navy style rum I kept my washes, up to 25 of them now pretty consistent and never really had an issues with ferments. They always fizzed away nicely like Coca Cola and smelt great but I am thinking that I should try just to see the taste difference.

Thanks for all that feedback SS, it truly is appreciated, your right about chalking it up as experience and I can't wait till I love my product! Fully addicted to this hobby now!

[carbohydratesn]

those rum recipes seem to be for a heavy full bodied rum

Have you seen the Molasses Vodka thread? http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 11&t=55389

And you could turn a heavy rum into a light rum with a few distillations - what you start with is really important, but what you do to it also matters

Looks like a nice stash! Much bigger than mine so far. Enjoy it!

[NZChris]

I don't rack, but only use the dunder from the first siphon from the top of the ferment (40-80l) so that there is little dead yeast in it for the next generation. Hot dunder goes onto the sugar to get some conversion, never onto my trub to kill the yeast. My reasoning being that I don't want the burned rubber smell from inside dead yeast cells (autolysis) getting into my collection jar. I keep dead yeast out of the dunder pit too, as my first attempt at a dunder pit reeked of autolysis.

[ranger_ric]

Wiz,
I am totally in a different boat, while I have only been at this craft for about 3 months, initially I thought the taste of UJSSM was weird. I thought I would get a corn whiskey flavor but what I got was funky to my taste buds kind of like a mead that bites. but after working at it through many generations I have found that both my aptitude and palate have changed. I like the flavor of corn now and I can make some decent cuts. I tried switching it up thinking I could get something better by adding oats and rye and wheat and barley but found it wasnt as good as just the corn..... go figger.
Anyway keep plugging away and keep us informed on how it goes for you...
RR

[Wiz of Oz]

Thanks everyone on all the feedback!

[rad14701]

Don't assume that every Tried and True Rum recipe is going to produce more flavor than you like... Double distilling can work magic on rum and many here double distill theirs... In fact many here don't like any spirits single run, with or without a thumper... Open your mind and broaden your horizons... You never know what you might learn...

[CR33G3R]

Don't assume that every Tried and True Rum recipe is going to produce more flavor than you like... Double distilling can work magic on rum and many here double distill theirs... In fact many here don't like any spirits single run, with or without a thumper... Open your mind and broaden your horizons... You never know what you might learn...

100% agree. When I do rum which is not very often I do the Hook rum by Hookline and always double distill in my pot still. (about 4 strips then a spirit)
If you are unhappy with your current results maybe you should try the tried and true. They made it to that thread for a reason.
Never be afraid to learn

[S-Cackalacky]

If you like it lighter, a thumper might be your friend. Do the strips and then a spirit run with the thumper charged with plain water. With some work and experience, you can learn to somewhat control the outcome. A good recipe up front can also contribute a lot to the quality of the output.

[HDNB]

found that feed molasses is too strong a flavour too. after triple distilled it has lighted up considerably. still very molasses, but drinkable. my go to rum from the store always was Lemon Hart, a dark demerara rum with lots of flavour. the feed molasses, triple distilled still has more than that.

going to try a straight demerara sugar one day to see if thats more in line with what i want.

[Wiz of Oz]

Thanks for all the advice and feedback everyone. I'm always open to trying different things and never afraid to learn, I would not be where I am now without learning a lot.

Pardon the stupid question but...When double and triple distilling are you taking everything (minus your fores) from your first spirit run, water down to less than 40% abv and do another spirit run or do you cut some early heads/late tails out too before distilling again? Is a stripping run and one spirit run then considered 1.5 times distilled?

Cheers everyone

[Tokoroa_Shiner]

Double distilling is doing a strip then a spirit run. Triple distilling is taking everything from the spirit run and distilling it again. A 1.5 run is doing a strip run and then charging the boiler with that and topping up with fresh wash.

[S-Cackalacky]

Some folks also consider a single pass with a thumper attached to be a 1.5 run.

[Andy Capp]

If you want a light to golden rum then don't use dunder. It adds funk that is found in spiced rums which is why the Jamaicans use it. Most rum distilleries don't use dunder.
I use molasses,yeast,water and ferment fast at 30 -35c. Finished in 1.5 days it gets racked and into the fridge for a cold dump. Leaving it sit on the dormant yeast after a slow ferment will only add to a heavy flavor.
I tried lots of different sugar/molasses/dunder combos but like you wasn't completely happy with the taste. Going all molasses and dumping the dunder while altering the fermenting to flat out fast changed everything.
The distilling method can change the flavour a bit, but the wash will dictate what the distilled flavour is. Starting with the right flavoured wash is the key.
For what it's worth i double distill through a pot.

[rager]

Pardon the stupid question but...When double and triple distilling are you taking everything (minus your fores) from your first spirit run, water down to less than 40% abv and do another spirit run or do you cut some early heads/late tails out too before distilling again? Is a stripping run and one spirit run then considered 1.5 times distilled?

Cheers everyone

not a stupid question. when I was doing a lot of rum I was always cutting fores and a good half qt of heads per strip . I think it worked well for me . why I haven't been doing the same with my AG not sure. but I might get back into . I guess its because I works so hard to get the sugar from the grains I got stingy. but I think might start doing that again with my AG
t

[droo1966]

I find that doing my first distillation using an alembic with a 1.4 metre column and then my second using a reflux still makes a wonderful rum flavour. I also keep my fermentation recipes as simple as possible, like an old fashioned distiller. For example, in a 44 gallon drum, I use 15kg of raw sugar, 20 litres of stock feed molasses and 30 litres of Dundee. I allow the Dundee to cool and settle first and ALWAYS top up with water from the hot tap as the added chemicals are mostly removed by my hot water service. I wait 24 hours for the wort to cool before pitching yeast and just allow it to settle. I only aim for 6-8% because I have found that if I try for more than that then the flavour is rather funky.
The only weird thing I do is chase the caramels that come out between the two different propanols. You need a refluxer to do this but it makes the booze wonderful. It even improves my UJSM. It takes a long slow run to do it but it's worth it.

[Jim Tom]

Can you elaborate on the propanol thing?

[underdog]

Hi!

I've tried, and I'm not happy with my rum, either. I end up with a crappy yeast taste that even the vanilla bean, spices and Coke can't hide. I also poop like a goose the next day. I've had some sitting around for months, and I'm about to dump it - I'm never going to drink the stuff. I used Buccaneer Bob's rum method and I'm not likely to try it again for a while.

I live in Brasil 4 months a year. Cachaca is just sugar head with no cuts. I can't get it past my nose anymore, but if you hide the smell with enough lime (caipirinha), I can drink it, but I pay for the experience the next day.

However.....

I am currently sipping UJSSM that I distilled back in October that sat on toasted oak for 6 months. It's good. Really. Even my wife likes it - just pour it over ice.
I have some pantydropper sitting around that I made from Birdwatchers in my Boka, and that's good, too. Everyone loves the blueberry.
I'm got a third gen of UJSSM bubbling now that I'll likely put on oak this week and drink next spring (or maybe later).

I like rum, but since getting involved in hobby, I've learned to like other stuff. Even though I'm new at this, my UJSSM is awesome, and I can't remember the last time that I had a hangover.

Moral of the story? Try something other than rum. 95% ABV Birdwatchers can be made into all sorts of stuff. UJSSM is easy and goooooood. If you want tasty stuff, don't go over 8% on your starting SG. ..hat tip to Rad.

For me, rum has been a disappointment. I've found success with other stuff.

[Boda Getta]

Please advise where you found the corks for the gallon jugs.

Thanks,
BG

[nerdybrewer]

It really comes down to a couple things in my humble opinion.
First it's getting good at what you're doing, this takes lots of practice for most of us and it helps to have some who are already masters teach us what & how & how much & with what and so on.
Next it's discovering what you really want to produce from your efforts, see "First" above, this takes practice & trial and error and more learning.
Then it seems to come to the requirement for patience, time is the greatest thing going for what we produce and only time will change what we are making in a way that it becomes it's best.
Everything about distilling seems to require learning and practice and work and more learning and patience.

For myself I love the heavy bodied rums and started out making very light rums until I read Bob's recipe and started making it.
Since then I decided to make enough to put it away in a once used Whiskey barrel and let it age, I like Pyrat rum so aging my heavy rum in an oak barrel seems to be the way to get somewhere close to that profile.

My tastes are not for everyone, however I gave a taste of my barrel aged single malt to an out of town relative a few days ago without telling him and he said: "That's Scotch".
This was gratifying to me, at least someone can tell what's in the barrel by taste.
Next - having it be "good Scotch" or "good Rum".
Maybe with time it will become that.

[BoomTown]

Wiz,

I've had similar results (taste wise) and all I can offer is, I used the same recipe for 2 years, before I began to understand how and what it takes to make the same recipe taste the same ways over and over.

Some have said you develop a pallet for your own stuff, and I think that's a trap for us... and a lot of us fall into it. To prevent that, I constantly compare our stuff to the off-the-shelf stuff so that I keep my standards in focus.

Good whiskey is hard to make. No two ways about it. But small stills are the best way to do it. It helps when you conquer the science, and marry the art.

I'd advise you to spend a few bucks for a good barrel (recommend Gibbs Barrels) and drop any of that stuff you are disappointed with into it, and leave it for a year or so, you'll be pleasantly surprised. A simple thing you might think about doing is toasting your oak yourself. Keep in mind, lots of the flavors in brown spirit comes from the oaking. And most of that is because of the sugars in the oak. Personally, I've re-vitalized lots of my original oak sticks by toasting them at 400f for 45 minutes after they first cycle. I think that works because the complex sugars in the oak's cell get caramelized, which makes them more soluble to the liquor. Maybe it's simple that the wood gets dehydrated, and soaks of the spirit to its core once it gets slipped back into the spirit. At any rate, the tastes that come back aren't as heavy in the tanic acids (oak taste) that the original soaking produced.

Just my opinion...but the important thing is...don't give up. It's a great hobby.

[Beerbrewer]

Please advise where you found the corks for the gallon jugs.

Thanks,
BG

You should be able to get those from any homebrew shop, I use all cork ones for my demijohns, obviously .

[ben stiller]

Underdog did you pot still your rum? Reason I ask is my first rum was made using feed molasses and double distilled in my pot still. The final product had a taste that I could not get past. My soh said it was ok and
could drink it. With nothing to lose I ran it slow through my concentric with a short packed column expecting
to strip most of the flavor out. To my surprise the result was a flavorful rum with that taste completely gone.
After 4 months on oak it is really good. My soh made a dark and stormy the other night using some leftover commercial dark rum. I made one with my rum. We both agreed that mine was much better. Since you mentioned having a boka I would suggest running it through and see what you get before dumping it.

[underdog]

Hiya, Ben.

Yes, I pot-stilled that rum. Twice.

You know, I think I'll give the column a shot at it. What's there to lose, really?

The next time that I try rum, though, I'll likely use a different recipe. Using boiled yeast as a nutrient likely adds to the icky taste.

[Wiz of Oz]

Hi All,
Been a while since I have been on here and been a while since I was distilling, thanks in part to two small children in my life. I finally got back into the saddle and did a spirit run on some low wines that I had sitting around for a year! It was just like riding a bike, everything went well and that stuff is now sitting on oak. The only problem with not distilling for a year is that my stock pile is getting shockingly low!

Back to my original post though. I have to say the number one thing I have learned about this hobby is that time is your friend and don't be afraid to experiment. I now have product that is approaching 2 years old and I love it! I kept some ageing at 58% abv, 55%, 53% and 50% and all of them were ageing on medium toasted USA oak cubes. So far it seems that I like the 53% the best, this proof for me seems to bring out some very nice caramel flavors that I really like once diluted to 40%. I like the 58% but not as much, it seems a little smokier/spicier than the lower abv stuff. Another thing I have discovered is that I like to continue the product on the oak vs pulling it off oak and letting it age.

Super excited to be back in front of my still again!

[Boda Getta]

Good job. Thoses are the type of gal jugs I use for my glass aging after taken out of the kegs. Could you give me the source for those large corks?

Thanks,
BG

[Wiz of Oz]

Hey BG
Thanks. I'm up in Canada and I order from these guys:

http://www.bosagrape.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

They sell a good assortment of stuff and they are who I use for my tapered corks on those 1 gal glass jugs. You can order online but if don't see exactly what you are looking for then give them a call if that is an option for you!
Cheers!