Basic Distillation 101

Other discussions for folks new to the wonderful craft of home distilling.

Moderator: Site Moderator

KellyD
Novice
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:38 pm

Re: Basic Distillation 101

Post by KellyD »

Should the backset still have an ABV? I am wondering if I am leaving spirit behind because when I was "done" the backset still have 5% when I measured.
User avatar
Deplorable
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 3984
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:10 pm
Location: In the East, (IYKYK)

Re: Basic Distillation 101

Post by Deplorable »

KellyD wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:41 pm Should the backset still have an ABV? I am wondering if I am leaving spirit behind because when I was "done" the backset still have 5% when I measured.
ABV of your backset is determined by when you shut off your still. If you stop stripping at 5% output, then your leaving alcohol in the pot. Its up to you on when to stop collecting.
Somebody smarter than me will be along shortly to correct me if I am talking out of school.
Fear and ridicule are the tactics of weak-minded cowards and tyrants who have no other leadership talent from which to draw in order to persuade.
User avatar
still_stirrin
Master of Distillation
Posts: 10337
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:01 am
Location: where the buffalo roam, and the deer & antelope play

Re: Basic Distillation 101

Post by still_stirrin »

If you run the still until you get 0%ABV at the spout, then there is likely no alcohol left in the boiler. But then again, you’d be past the tails and well into the “sweet water”. In fact you’d be to the point that just water and acids and other heavy alkaloids would remain in the boiler, that is, those constituents with a boiling point well above water’s BP.

If you stop collecting when the spout is at 10%, then there is not much good left in the boiler. Often, I stop collecting when the spout is 10% to 12% and whats left behind in the boiler is quite acidic. So, if you’re using yours to sour a mash, be careful and don’t add too much. Approach the target from the “too little side” rather than “overshoot” your target.
ss
My LM/VM & Potstill: My build thread
My Cadco hotplate modification thread: Hotplate Build
My stock pot gin still: stock pot potstill
My 5-grain Bourbon recipe: Special K
User avatar
shadylane
Master of Distillation
Posts: 10363
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:54 pm
Location: Hiding In the Boiler room of the Insane asylum

Re: Basic Distillation 101

Post by shadylane »

KellyD wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:41 pm Should the backset still have an ABV? I am wondering if I am leaving spirit behind because when I was "done" the backset still have 5% when I measured.
Sounds like the stripping run might have ended too early.
The proof hydrometer wasn't accurate at the lower end of it's scale.
The backset was warmer than the proof hydrometer was calibrated for.
Or a combination of all the above :lol:
User avatar
NZChris
Master of Distillation
Posts: 13062
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Basic Distillation 101

Post by NZChris »

KellyD wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:41 pm Should the backset still have an ABV? I am wondering if I am leaving spirit behind because when I was "done" the backset still have 5% when I measured.
If your backset truly is 5% ABV, you are doing something very wrong, but without a lot more info. about your run and how you arrived at the 5% number, we could be guessing all day and never get close to what the problem is. I suggest you start a new thread for it.
User avatar
Saltbush Bill
Site Mod
Posts: 9675
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:13 am
Location: Northern NSW Australia

Re: Basic Distillation 101

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Most washes are around 10% ....if you stopped at 5% you left a lot of booze behind......me thinks your numbers are wrong or you got confused by using the wrong gadget to measure abv.
Run it till it feels oily betwixt the fingers .....you wont leave any thing behind that way.
User avatar
Rrmuf
Rumrunner
Posts: 667
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:07 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Basic Distillation 101

Post by Rrmuf »

Thanks. This is useful for a beginner. ... We all have to walk before we can run and some of the vitriol in other topics in response to fair questions is unhelpful.
-- Rrmuf
SGB
Swill Maker
Posts: 225
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:21 am

Re: Basic Distillation 101

Post by SGB »

If I do multiple distillation spirit runs of the same spirit, is methanol also being created and the same ratio of foreshot thrown out?
In other words, let's say I am doing a spirit run of UJSSM on my pot still. I throw out the first foreshot, then collect everything down to 10% then run it again for a second time or perhaps even a third time
Is methanol going to be in those second and third
distillation foreshots?
User avatar
Corsaire
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1131
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:20 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: Basic Distillation 101

Post by Corsaire »

Methanol isn't created in the still but in the ferment. And you don't chuck all of it out with the fores, it's smeared throughout the run.

The good news is that ujssm (or most ferments actually) don't produce much methanol at all. And the natural 'antidote' to methanol is... ethanol. So don't worry about it.

Now on what to do with fores, some chuck them every strip and spirit run. Me, I collect everything from the strip and only make a fores cut on the spirit run. Do what feels best to you.
User avatar
Rrmuf
Rumrunner
Posts: 667
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:07 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Basic Distillation 101

Post by Rrmuf »

I had the same question and am discarding a 125ml each run, more out of an abundance of caution than anything. I also figured that I am probably getting rid of strong heads anyways. Understood that one cannot assume that ALL methanol / acetates, etc comes in the foreshots, but there is more of a concentration of it there, correct?
-- Rrmuf
SGB
Swill Maker
Posts: 225
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:21 am

Re: Basic Distillation 101

Post by SGB »

Thank you Corsaire!
User avatar
NZChris
Master of Distillation
Posts: 13062
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Basic Distillation 101

Post by NZChris »

Rrmuf wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:26 am I had the same question and am discarding a 125ml each run, more out of an abundance of caution than anything. I also figured that I am probably getting rid of strong heads anyways. Understood that one cannot assume that ALL methanol / acetates, etc comes in the foreshots, but there is more of a concentration of it there, correct?
Not according to an EC study.
https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 33&t=40606
User avatar
Rrmuf
Rumrunner
Posts: 667
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:07 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Basic Distillation 101

Post by Rrmuf »

NZChris wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:12 pm
Rrmuf wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:26 am I had the same question and am discarding a 125ml each run, more out of an abundance of caution than anything. I also figured that I am probably getting rid of strong heads anyways. Understood that one cannot assume that ALL methanol / acetates, etc comes in the foreshots, but there is more of a concentration of it there, correct?
Not according to an EC study.
https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 33&t=40606
Thanks Chris. THAT is useful information! and I understood that it was a smear I recall an Odin post about "Why cut heads" or something thereabouts which I took to heart and as such I have been cutting out very little in the heads. (I still discard fores religiously.... but I am starting to question why after this read. I still will .... but maybe just out of religious fervor :lol: )

So, the takeaways are:
1. Don't be too afraid of heads ( but discard foreshots if for no reason except out of respect to the Gods )
2. Be more mindful with cutting tails
3. Maybe reprocessing tails is not a great idea, but at the least, keep it to a single generation of redistilling
4. Be especially careful when getting to fruit-based washes.

Admittedly simplistic but Fair enough?
-- Rrmuf
User avatar
NZChris
Master of Distillation
Posts: 13062
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Basic Distillation 101

Post by NZChris »

My takeaway:
Run into at least a dozen jars. From those jars choose a blend that you like. Early and late jars may taste bad on their own, but they may be needed to round out the flavor of the blend, so try them in your sample blends.

I save the heads and tails together with new or used oak dominoes and let them build up until there is enough for a run with some added fresh wash.

Commercial products that taste of heads give me a headache, but I don't know what particular components cause it.
JesseMarques
Bootlegger
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:52 pm
Location: Brasil

Re: Basic Distillation 101

Post by JesseMarques »

NZChris wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:36 pm My takeaway:
Run into at least a dozen jars. From those jars choose a blend that you like. Early and late jars may taste bad on their own, but they may be needed to round out the flavor of the blend, so try them in your sample blends.

I save the heads and tails together with new or used oak dominoes and let them build up until there is enough for a run with some added fresh wash.

Commercial products that taste of heads give me a headache, but I don't know what particular components cause it.
Too much alcohol would cause it because it turns to acetaldehyde in our system. Head tasting products have higher amount of components that becomes other toxins in our body, headaches from hangover generally is just dehydration because of liver trying to clean all up
User avatar
NZChris
Master of Distillation
Posts: 13062
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Basic Distillation 101

Post by NZChris »

JesseMarques wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:11 pm
NZChris wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:36 pm My takeaway:
Run into at least a dozen jars. From those jars choose a blend that you like. Early and late jars may taste bad on their own, but they may be needed to round out the flavor of the blend, so try them in your sample blends.

I save the heads and tails together with new or used oak dominoes and let them build up until there is enough for a run with some added fresh wash.

Commercial products that taste of heads give me a headache, but I don't know what particular components cause it.
Too much alcohol would cause it because it turns to acetaldehyde in our system. Head tasting products have higher amount of components that becomes other toxins in our body, headaches from hangover generally is just dehydration because of liver trying to clean all up
I don't believe that. Some Whiskys give me a headache before I finish the glass. The last Scotch I sampled, two fingers woke me up with a headache around 2am. I've read many posts from distillers about about the differences in hangovers from home distilled products compared to commercial, plus my experience has been the same. A friend of mine recently told me he and another mate got totally trashed on the whiskey I gave him and they were both amazed at how well they felt in the morning, dehydrated, but not the banging headache they usually get from whiskey.
JesseMarques
Bootlegger
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:52 pm
Location: Brasil

Re: Basic Distillation 101

Post by JesseMarques »

NZChris wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:47 pm I don't believe that. Some Whiskys give me a headache before I finish the glass. The last Scotch I sampled, two fingers woke me up with a headache around 2am. I've read many posts from distillers about about the differences in hangovers from home distilled products compared to commercial, plus my experience has been the same. A friend of mine recently told me he and another mate got totally trashed on the whiskey I gave him and they were both amazed at how well they felt in the morning, dehydrated, but not the banging headache they usually get from whiskey.
Some compounds are absorbed, metabolized and/or expeled in different speeds, some are prety fast. Some compounds can cause headaches immediately (acetone does), body hydration is a factor, just as each one's body
User avatar
Saltbush Bill
Site Mod
Posts: 9675
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:13 am
Location: Northern NSW Australia

Re: Basic Distillation 101

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Heads and fores cause hangovers from my experience.....get rid of them an you also throw out the hangover.
SGB
Swill Maker
Posts: 225
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:21 am

Re: Basic Distillation 101

Post by SGB »

NZChris wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:36 pm My takeaway:
Run into at least a dozen jars. From those jars choose a blend that you like. Early and late jars may taste bad on their own, but they may be needed to round out the flavor of the blend, so try them in your sample blends.

I save the heads and tails together with new or used oak dominoes and let them build up until there is enough for a run with some added fresh wash.


So it's OK the re-run or re-distill after its been on wood?
Because I have some late head early tail on wood but didn't like the taste. I was wondering if it's OK to run it with another wash or feints run.
User avatar
NZChris
Master of Distillation
Posts: 13062
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Basic Distillation 101

Post by NZChris »

I thought that was what I said. What are you confused about?

BTW, I do my All Feints runs with the wood in the boiler.
SGB
Swill Maker
Posts: 225
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:21 am

Re: Basic Distillation 101

Post by SGB »

Sorry.. I was just reconfirming what you posted. Sorry I just didn't know. I was afraid I'd ruin the worm if I introduced wood. I was worried that tannins or elements of resin would stick to the sides of the copper pipe and thus forever influence the flavor of everything being run.

I even tried a Google Search for "adding wood chip in boiler to feints run " and couldn't find any info.
User avatar
Rrmuf
Rumrunner
Posts: 667
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:07 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Basic Distillation 101

Post by Rrmuf »

NZChris wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:36 pm My takeaway:
Run into at least a dozen jars. From those jars choose a blend that you like. Early and late jars may taste bad on their own, but they may be needed to round out the flavor of the blend, so try them in your sample blends.

I save the heads and tails together with new or used oak dominoes and let them build up until there is enough for a run with some added fresh wash.

Commercial products that taste of heads give me a headache, but I don't know what particular components cause it.
Thanks. I do run 20l or so into usually 10-12 jars in fractions of 250ml for the 1st 2-4 jars, 500ml for where I am clearly into hearts, then back to 250ml into the tails .... until I get tired and just put late tails into a single jar .

Thanks for the discussion by all.

Cheers,
-- Rrmuf
Seanjohn19
Novice
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:20 am

Re: Basic Distillation 101

Post by Seanjohn19 »

Im very excited about this new hobby and there's so much good information on the site. Thanks to people like you 🍻
ohturoey
Novice
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu May 21, 2009 7:03 am
Location: B.C. CA

Re: Basic Distillation 101

Post by ohturoey »

Thanks for all the good information,
just have some thoughts about the cuts,
made a few quick runs in a fractionating collum still, abv ca 80 % dumped the foreshots
then later diluted several runs down to 25-30 % and ran it again, do I still have to dump foreshots or is it all more or less gone,
came out around 90% abv

Thanks
Sporacle
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1149
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:45 pm

Re: Basic Distillation 101

Post by Sporacle »

If you've taken foreshots on stripping runs then have done a spirit run based on those low wines then technically no, the foreshots are as you stated more or less gone (they are present though the entire spirit, just a smaller percentages). I am a total amateur at this, I still take a fairly large portion of early heads on my spirit run and discard it (usually the first jar) reasoning on my part is that it never makes it to my final cut and I have a large volume of fients already. Having said that this is my method for a pot set up, yours will be different.
Basically it comes down to taste :D
" you can pick your nose and you can pick your friends; but you can't always wipe your friends off on your saddle" sage advice from Kinky Friedman
User avatar
Rrmuf
Rumrunner
Posts: 667
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:07 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Basic Distillation 101

Post by Rrmuf »

... Of course, stripping runs all reduce the foreshots considerably, but there is always some smearing. SO I would say every run is an opportunity to take more out at the beginning. I make Gin and my usually practice involved 3 distillations and usually goes like this: I dump a healthy foreshot cut in the stripping run, a healthy foreshots cut in my neutral spirit run, and a minimal foreshots run in my Gin spirits run..... minimal because I find some botanicals come through early in the run. SO, I try to get as much undesirable compounds out in the previous two runs.
-- Rrmuf
User avatar
Saltbush Bill
Site Mod
Posts: 9675
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:13 am
Location: Northern NSW Australia

Re: Basic Distillation 101

Post by Saltbush Bill »

ohturoey wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:00 am made a few quick runs in a fractionating collum still, abv ca 80 % dumped the foreshots
What exactly are you calling a " fractioning column"? 80% ABV isn't exactly high quality reflux ed neutral.
Rrmuf wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 5:24 am but there is always some smearing. SO I would say every run is an opportunity to take more out at the beginning
My feeling on it too......is there really a one size fits all answer to this?
The fores are all gone when the fores are all gone......it depends on the Distiller and the Still or stills used, how good a job he or she does, how cuts are made, how the still is run, how efficient the still is.....just so many variables as with many other aspects of distilling.
User avatar
Rrmuf
Rumrunner
Posts: 667
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:07 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Basic Distillation 101

Post by Rrmuf »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:04 am
My feeling on it too......is there really a one size fits all answer to this?
The fores are all gone when the fores are all gone......it depends on the Distiller and the Still or stills used, how good a job he or she does, how cuts are made, how the still is run, how efficient the still is.....just so many variables as with many other aspects of distilling.
+1. There is no ONE answer.
-- Rrmuf
User avatar
dragon9874
Novice
Posts: 54
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:05 pm
Location: https://postimg.cc/gallery/jKDwxxs

Re: Basic Distillation 101

Post by dragon9874 »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:04 am My feeling on it too......is there really a one size fits all answer to this?
The fores are all gone when the fores are all gone......it depends on the Distiller and the Still or stills used, how good a job he or she does, how cuts are made, how the still is run, how efficient the still is.....just so many variables as with many other aspects of distilling.
...100%!! d-(^^,) no 2 runs are ever the exact same, ever.
My Journey Started here: Cranky's Spoon Feeding!
10G pot still + 3.5G thumper + 4G condenser... all copper! d-(^^,)
{DWDSD} \m/(^_^) \m/
User avatar
sadie33
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1494
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:45 pm

Re: Basic Distillation 101

Post by sadie33 »

This is a great write up! Well explained and easy to follow. thank you!
Post Reply