Can someone please doublecheck my method

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Lemur
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Can someone please doublecheck my method

Post by Lemur »

So, this is how I plan to make my first whiskey. I would kindly ask, if you can review my procedure for making it.

I have made the barrels, which I am going to char. See link below...

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 50&t=69111

Then I will take a standard mixture of 60% corn, 20% rye and 20% barley.

I will try to make green malt from the barley, which I intend to smoke a little bit. Is this a good idea or should I just buy the malt? I would prefer not to buy anything. Since my girlfriend comes from a farm, I have access to the required grains (except the yeast).

Mix it and add the yeast, that is usually used for beer. I plan to put some foil over the container and make a hole for the co2 to get out. Should I try to filter the mash when it is ready to be distilled?

I will use a pot, that looks like this one to distil the mash, normally we use it to make schnapps. Then I will put it in the barrels and age it for two years, or is one year enough?

Sound like a plan, or would you make anything differently?
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Old Town
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Re: Can someone please doublecheck my method

Post by Old Town »

Just mixing it and adding yeast is going to do nothing for you. You need to cook/mash everything at proper temp's. You might want to check out the tried&true section for a good recipe.
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Lemur
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Re: Can someone please doublecheck my method

Post by Lemur »

I forgot to add, that I was going to mask it. Is this and the cooking the only thing I left out? I didn’t know, that I must cook it. I didn’t check out the recipes, since I would like to use what I have at hand.
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NZChris
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Re: Can someone please doublecheck my method

Post by NZChris »

Lemur wrote:I will use a pot, that looks like this one to distil the mash, normally we use it to make schnapps. Then I will put it in the barrels and age it for two years, or is one year enough?
With that still, you should ferment enough for three or four stripping runs then a spirit run. If fermenting one still charge at a time it will take you a lot longer to fill your barrels

Aging stops once you take it off the wood. I suggest that you have plan to make as much as you drink every year or so, drawing off what you need from the oldest barrel, transferring the same amount from the youngest, then putting the new make into the youngest.
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Re: Can someone please doublecheck my method

Post by jb-texshine »

Use whatever grain you want as long as some is malted and all are somewhat ground. That's not what he meant by saying to read the recipes. He meant that there are a lot of protocol missing that you need. Such as cooking. Also mash and crush are not interchangeable words,mash and cook are.
I get the feeling that you have never done this before,correct? We will gladly help you find your way if you let us. It sounds as if you got a lot of good resources to potentially make a great drop.
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Lemur
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Re: Can someone please doublecheck my method

Post by Lemur »

@jb-texshine,. I know, that a lot is still missing. I read about mash and crush and know the difference now. I knew, that I need to crush it, but didn’t know about cooking it. I thought it was an option.
The thing is I only made schnapps until now, that’s why this part is missing in my knowledge base.
The other thing that I am “studying” now is the temperature control in all stages. I would like to make the process repeatable and want to be able to fine tune the recipe. This is actually connected to my field of work, which is sensorics and process automation. I will be glad to share my system if I find the time to complete the project.
So, the goal is not only to make a barrel of whiskey, but to be able to fine tune it, but I need to start somewhere. Later on I will be posting details in appropriate forum segments.
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Re: Can someone please doublecheck my method

Post by jb-texshine »

The best place for you to start really would be the recipes. Perhaps the glossary also to learn the different terms we use also.
By the way,your English is excellent. :thumbup:

There are certain parts that transfer from recipe to recipe,the general protocols.
Corn for instance has to be cooked to hot cereal thickness,whereas the enzymes in the malt would denature at the temps used to cook the corn so they would be added at the correct temp as the corn cools. Basic protocol found in all grain recipes.
Remember not to blow yourself up,you only get to forget once!


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Never eat Mexican food north or east of Dallas tx!
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Cu29er
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Re: Can someone please doublecheck my method

Post by Cu29er »

.

This is a pretty good series on the steps you'll need: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn4I6Rx ... CE3472189D" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
They use 165F for their process but if you're using corn you need to boil to 200F, add corn so it doesn't drop below 180F then put it in an insulated fermentation bucket to soak for 4-12 hours. Add the malt around 150F and stir every so often. Cut a board to be a strong square-ended paddle as you'll break most regular kitchen items.

Use bought malt the first few times (Pale or Brewers malt, ground). Green malt is possible but problematic and you'll have enough other variables to get right in the beginning. A goal though. 20-30% rate malt to other grains.

Finer grind on the ingredients gives more output. Cornmeal works great for conversion but is more likely to scorch keeping the cook temperature up. Cracked corn or rolled barley twice through a $25 "Corona Mill". If you use a drill motor make sure it's rugged (bearings not bushings and bigger for torque).

2-3lbs grain to a gallon of water is the target most seem to use for the boil, conversion, and ferment. Higher grain has less efficiency but more quantity.

Get a brick of bread yeast, 2lbs for "$5 or so" at the restaurant supply places. Fancy yeast by the packet gets expensive.

Do a sugar+corn wash the first time after cleaning to make sure you can get good output from the still equipment. Be smart around that fire, steam, and potential pressure vessel. Don't overfill the still and if using packing make sure no debris is in the kettle to plug it.

Keep a diary of each batch you run, temps and quantities, then compare which ones worked or not to figure out why.

As the other poster on here says about all this explaining 'or so I'm told'....

.
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TDick
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Re: Can someone please doublecheck my method

Post by TDick »

Lemur wrote:So, this is how I plan to make my first whiskey. I would kindly ask, if you can review my procedure for making it.
Then I will take a standard mixture of 60% corn, 20% rye and 20% barley.
I will try to make green malt from the barley, which I intend to smoke a little bit. Is this a good idea or should I just buy the malt? I would prefer not to buy anything. Since my girlfriend comes from a farm, I have access to the required grains (except the yeast).
I am a NOOB :mrgreen:
That is why I decided to malt my own barley and wheat to make "Jimbos Wheated Bourbon/Sugar Gumball" Tried & True.
I can tell you malting's very hard until you get it right, then it's easy.
The hard part, IN MY OPINION, is getting the times right.
That doesn't make a lot of sense, but you are welcome to learn from my mistakes:
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 15&t=67744

PM me if you want me to send you the Excel worksheet.
Good luck
:mrgreen:
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Re: Can someone please doublecheck my method

Post by zapata »

Your plan isn't bad as long as you understand you really need to work out the details.

The biggest problem I see is how well you malt the grain. I think it is ambitious for a hobbyist to make malt with as much enzymes as commercial malt. I think it is folly to hope to do it your first time. I would either have pure enzymes on hand in case your mash isn't completed, do all malt whiskey to start so there should be plenty of enzymes, or just start with commercial malt.

I would strain off the grain before running. And you didn't mention it but I think at least some schnapps makers do only single distillation, right? Whiskey is near universally made with double distillation so I would highly encourage that.

Also with a new 30 l barrel, 2 years might be a bit too long. 30 liters is right between US 5 and 10 gallon barrels. I think 6 months is a good time to start tasting a 5 gallon barrel, a year for 10 gallons. Your barrels are awesome by the way, and I commend your "do everything yourself" approach.
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Kareltje
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Re: Can someone please doublecheck my method

Post by Kareltje »

A lot of advice is already given.

I tried malting several grains past year and I found it difficult. In the end I found that soaking the grains thoroughly and than putting them in wet towels and airing them and stirring every half day worked best. But it depends on the grain. Barley only sprouts when it is not dehulled, wheat and rye sprout easily, corn is more difficult. Oats I did not try, but it is said it works the same as barley: it sprouts only if it is not dehulled, but commercial available grain is always dehulled.
So if you do not have access to seed barley (NOT TREATED with pesticides!!!!), it is more convenient to buy malt.

And of course you have to give the grains, grits and flours a temperature treatment with the malt. Do not kill the enzymes though, as is often recommended by beer makers: the enzymes may work during fermentation too, splitting the last starch.

About the filtering: it is difficult to filter grains. There are some tricks to get all the taste and alcohol from the sediment. I used to filter, mix the filter cake with water and filter again.
Then you can choose the filtering point: after brewing or after fermenting.
Or, if you have one, you can use a thumper to put the sediment in. I drain the rather clear liquid to put it into the boiler and I put a lot of the sediment into the thumper.
A very experienced colleague, der wo from Germany, said that thick fruit does scorch less than thick grains. I do not have experienced it myself, but I believe him. Maybe some stirring in your boiler might be a help. And if I am not wrong: distillation with stirring devices is quite common in your country or region.

It seems to me you are smart and informed enough to find yur own way!
Last edited by Kareltje on Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
dukethebeagle120
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Re: Can someone please doublecheck my method

Post by dukethebeagle120 »

to be honest,i don`t use malt barley anymore
only home malted wheat.
makes a good drink
its better to think like a fool but keep your mouth shut,then to open ur mouth and have it confirmed
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Re: Can someone please doublecheck my method

Post by dukethebeagle120 »

Kareltje wrote:A lot of advice is already given.

I tried malting several grains past year and I found it difficult. In the end I found that soaking the grains thoroughly and than putting them in wet towels and airing them and stirring every half day worked best. But it depends on the grain. Barley only sprouts when it is not dehulled, wheat and rye sprout easily, corn is more difficult. Oats I did not try, but it is said it works the same as barley: it sprouts only if it is not dehulled, but commercial available grain is always dehulled.
So if you do not have access to seed barley (NOT TREATED with pesticides!!!!), it is more convenient to buy malt.

About the filtering: it is difficult to filter grains. There are some tricks to get all the taste and alcohol from the sediment. I used to filter, mix the filter cake with water and filter again.
Then you can choose the filtering point: after brewing or after fermenting.
Or, if you have one, you can use a thumper to put the sediment in. I drain the rather clear liquid to put it into the boiler and I put a lot of the sediment into the thumper.
A very experienced colleague, der wo from Germany, said that thick fruit does scorch less than thick grains. I do not have experienced it myself, but I believe him. Maybe some stirring in your boiler might be a help. And if I am not wrong: distillation with stirring devices is quite common in your country or region.
i malt in white grain bags.
30 lbs per bag.
i soak abd malt in the same bag
1 soak for wheat is enough
then hang the bag up and every 8-12 hours grab it by the ends and shake hard
moisten as needed but just a little
usually 3-4 day is all for wheat
5-6 for barley
i haven`t did barley for quite a while
its better to think like a fool but keep your mouth shut,then to open ur mouth and have it confirmed
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Kareltje
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Re: Can someone please doublecheck my method

Post by Kareltje »

dukethebeagle120 wrote:
Kareltje wrote:A lot of advice is already given.

I tried malting several grains past year and I found it difficult. In the end I found that soaking the grains thoroughly and than putting them in wet towels and airing them and stirring every half day worked best. But it depends on the grain. Barley only sprouts when it is not dehulled, wheat and rye sprout easily, corn is more difficult. Oats I did not try, but it is said it works the same as barley: it sprouts only if it is not dehulled, but commercial available grain is always dehulled.
So if you do not have access to seed barley (NOT TREATED with pesticides!!!!), it is more convenient to buy malt.
i malt in white grain bags.
30 lbs per bag.
i soak abd malt in the same bag
1 soak for wheat is enough
then hang the bag up and every 8-12 hours grab it by the ends and shake hard
moisten as needed but just a little
usually 3-4 day is all for wheat
5-6 for barley
i haven`t did barley for quite a while
I am glad if I can handle a half kilo, about 1 lb. :)
Wetting and putting it in my largest frying pan on a wet towel. A sieve over it, to keep insects out.
Mixing regularly. And indeed: not too wet. I lost some batches by making or keeping them too wet. Caused some mold or sour fermenting.
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Re: Can someone please doublecheck my method

Post by dukethebeagle120 »

Kareltje wrote:A lot of advice is already given.

I tried malting several grains past year and I found it difficult. In the end I found that soaking the grains thoroughly and than putting them in wet towels and airing them and stirring every half day worked best. But it depends on the grain. Barley only sprouts when it is not dehulled, wheat and rye sprout easily, corn is more difficult. Oats I did not try, but it is said it works the same as barley: it sprouts only if it is not dehulled, but commercial available grain is always dehulled.
So if you do not have access to seed barley (NOT TREATED with pesticides!!!!), it is more convenient to buy malt.

And of course you have to give the grains, grits and flours a temperature treatment with the malt. Do not kill the enzymes though, as is often recommended by beer makers: the enzymes may work during fermentation too, splitting the last starch.

About the filtering: it is difficult to filter grains. There are some tricks to get all the taste and alcohol from the sediment. I used to filter, mix the filter cake with water and filter again.
Then you can choose the filtering point: after brewing or after fermenting.
Or, if you have one, you can use a thumper to put the sediment in. I drain the rather clear liquid to put it into the boiler and I put a lot of the sediment into the thumper.
A very experienced colleague, der wo from Germany, said that thick fruit does scorch less than thick grains. I do not have experienced it myself, but I believe him. Maybe some stirring in your boiler might be a help. And if I am not wrong: distillation with stirring devices is quite common in your country or region.

It seems to me you are smart and informed enough to find yur own way!
i use the socd method
paint strainer and a mop wringer
then leave it a day or 2 siphon off all the clear.
the rest goes in the thumper for stripping.
i got a 12 gallon a a 16 gallon keg.
usually all the clear goes in the 12 and i call it ``the cream`` goes in the 15.5
the i strip the hell out of it
usually the primary 3/4 full and the 15.5 1/2-2/3
i usually strip 20 or so gallons to the shot
i want to get another 15.5 to have two for stripping
its better to think like a fool but keep your mouth shut,then to open ur mouth and have it confirmed
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Re: Can someone please doublecheck my method

Post by Johnsmih1010 »

I bought big blue (4x10") water filter houseing with 50/5 mic filters (50 mic outside 5 mic inside ) and pump it through . A first rough filtering can be done by just pouring the mash off into a bucket or mash your material in a filter bag like a paint strainer . I made large filter sacks out of nylon? 200 mic material . It's good too 170c for boiling too ( not burning)
The filters can be washed just by backflushing
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Lemur
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Re: Can someone please doublecheck my method

Post by Lemur »

Let me update you on the whiskey project.

The process in short was…

Getting the sugar:
1. Cooking the corn for 1h,
2. Lowering the temperature to a “malting” level
3. Adding Malt and Rye
4. Letting the starch convert to sugar
5. Lowered the temperature quickly (1h) to a sub 30 degree Celsius with beer cooling equipment
6. Adding yeast, we recycled from our beer brewing, making a starter…

Getting the alcohol out:
1. Filtering the liquid from the mash like thing with a net made of curtains with the right sized holes
2. Distilling

The efficiency was quite high, calculated it with Brewtarget. And we have got some corny tasting substance…

Now the next step in two weeks is the second destination and charring my barrels.

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=69111

So, so far so good. I think we are on the path to a good bourbon. Now the main question that I have, since the second distillation should not be a problem is, how to char the barrels? Is there a scale, does anyone have a quick tip before we go piro on them?

Thanks for the advice and not making me look for a dedicated post. :)
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Re: Can someone please doublecheck my method

Post by still_stirrin »

Lemur wrote:Now the main question. . . how to char the barrels? Is there a scale, does anyone have a quick tip before we go piro on them?
Lemur,

This thread has a very good discussion of the toast & char process. I suggest you read through it completely...bookmark it if you will. It should help you through your journey (to bourbon).

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=67274

Good luck with the venture. While the process of oaking and aging is quite easy, it can be the hardest if you are impatient.
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Lemur
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Re: Can someone please doublecheck my method

Post by Lemur »

Hmm.... The problem is, that I have barrels. :) I quickly went through the post and didn't see anything about barrels. So I was thinking of making a hanging heater with a thermostat and suspending it in the barrel.
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Lemur
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Re: Can someone please doublecheck my method

Post by Lemur »

I am happy to report, that the whiskey is done. Everything went OK. In the end we did a bourbon style Whiskey. It was completed about a month ago and it is already getting a nice vanilla flavour.

We calculated the quantities with brew target and used beer malt alt yeast that we harvested from beer brewing. We were on spot with the quantities and successfully made our first 30l of whiskey.

Next year we are planning to make another barrel and a year after a Scottish variety.

You can catch a glimpse at out barrel charring method….
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