will time balance out loose cuts?

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will time balance out loose cuts?

Postby SchmuBrew » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:40 pm

title kinda says it all,

with all grain / or corn, if one were to make fairly loose cuts (say saving 65%-75% vs 40%-50%) will aging balance/even things out?

I'm not trying to be greedy, but only run 2 or 3 times a year (I can wait a year for it to age) and would like to save as much as possible (ok, so I am greedy - flame away)

not looking for a sipping drink, simply for mixing etc
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Re: will time balance out loose cuts?

Postby still_stirrin » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:50 pm

Are you asking if cutting some heads and tails into your keep will age in wood, if you give it enough time? Sure, that’s how 9 out of 10 commercial producers do it. But keep in mind that they age on wood a MINIMUM of 2 years, often more than 3. So, you’ll need to give it time to “settle down”.

If you like to drink “commercial-grade” liquor, then by all means go ahead. But I like my liquor to be better than store bought. So, conservative cuts are paramount for me. Greed is not allowed in my distillery.

If you don’t mind hangovers and headaches...have at it. But it seems to me that good cuts will get you more (better) liquor quicker. And remember, some sample “white right off the pipe”.
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Re: will time balance out loose cuts?

Postby BayouShine » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:17 pm

Are you going to age it white or on oak? That'll make a big difference in the grand scheme of things.
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Re: will time balance out loose cuts?

Postby SchmuBrew » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:08 pm

The center of the hearts will likely stay white (a couple of jars), then maybe 1/3 on oak (oak in the jug) and the balance on cherry (i recently acquired a decent amount of 1" thick x 10" wide air dried cherry - 75% of which is heartwood)

I did a stripping run today (80% corn, 20% 2 row), even after being run hard and fast it was quite a bit smoother compared to the last run of all 2-row. I am now thinking of aging the 2-row while consuming the corn run :)

Time will tell I suppose.
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Re: will time balance out loose cuts?

Postby Yummyrum » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:38 am

If it can't breathe , the heads can't get out . Barrels let the heads out . Wood in a sealed jar doesn't . Opening it regularly does help but 2 years in a barrel will be a lot different to two years in a jar with wood .
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Re: will time balance out loose cuts?

Postby zapata » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:53 am

Its a false economy if you're doing it to be greedy. For age to take care of loose cuts, it has to breathe. If it breathes, the angels take their share. You lose at least as much volume as you gained with the sloppy cuts.

Mediocre booze is cheap to buy and easy to make lots of. If you're only running 2 or 3 times a year, your time must be valuable. If you put a reasonable value on your limited time, your best savings is probably to buy handles of bottom shelf booze. I can only pretend to save money with this hobby if I compare to at least mid grade booze.

But of course you should make what you like. But if youre trying to stretch cuts out not because you like it but because maybe you can tolerate it, maybe you could focus on being more productive in other ways? Scale up, simplify recipes or equipment, use preheated for faster back to back runs, organize your setup so it's faster to run more often etc.
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Re: will time balance out loose cuts?

Postby Twisted Brick » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:46 pm

zapata wrote: I can only pretend to save money with this hobby if I compare to at least mid grade booze.


+1

OTOH, regarding stretched cuts, I have read here that if one is inclined and has the time to properly age, putting away new make 'dirty' can provide for more complexity later on. I want to try this one day, and presumably, might add any (portion) jar of late heads/early tails that I'm on the fence about adding in the original final cut.
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Re: will time balance out loose cuts?

Postby RedwoodHillBilly » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:05 pm

Twisted Brick wrote:
zapata wrote: I can only pretend to save money with this hobby if I compare to at least mid grade booze.


+1

OTOH, regarding stretched cuts, I have read here that if one is inclined and has the time to properly age, putting away new make 'dirty' can provide for more complexity later on. I want to try this one day, and presumably, might add any (portion) jar of late heads/early tails that I'm on the fence about adding in the original final cut.


But only to degree. Putting a grain bill dirty with heads, won't buy you much, it'll taste like some commercial stuff. Grain has the flavor on the early tails side for aging on wood. Now, on the other hand, fruit has the flavor in the heads, so cut it a bit wide on the heads side.

All of this being said, "cut it tight for white" and a sweet mash for white isn't a bad idea. Sour mash and a little wider cuts for wood isn't a bad idea. Just my (not) so humble opinion.
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Re: will time balance out loose cuts?

Postby Odin » Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:41 am

Some late heads and early tails will - over time - create a more complex product.

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Re: will time balance out loose cuts?

Postby RedwoodHillBilly » Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:56 am

Odin wrote:Some late heads and early tails will - over time - create a more complex product.

Odin.


Agreed, but I guess, that the artistry is in how far one digs into the heads and the tails for a particular product. A lot has to do with how long one plans on aging it, how it is to be aged, the precursor (ferment and grain/fruit bill) and ones specific tastes. Lots of variables, so no one correct answer. IMHO
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and the tinker he can't mend kettle nor pots without a little barleycorn."
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Re: will time balance out loose cuts?

Postby steelmb » Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:52 am

I make extremely wide cuts and age for very short periods. I toss about the first 10 ml per gallon of wash as foreshots. Actually I don't toss it, it goes into the windshield washer on the car. Waste not, want not. Then I collect until my collection vessel gets down to 50% ABV, drink and enjoy. No fuss, no muss. I believe the devil is in the details of the ferment. Proper ingredients and happy yeast makes for good liker without all this fussing with cuts.Just my 0 cents.
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Re: will time balance out loose cuts?

Postby boda getta » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:54 am

One note on aging in a barrel; the big distilleries age in a charred barrela minimum 2 years, but most of them use 53 gal barrels. Most home distillers (including me) use 3-5 gal kegs. IMHO, leaving the whiskey in a small keg that long will result in the whiskey being way over oaked. Using a new'ish #3 charred kegs should be left in the keg 2-3 months. I keep a close check on mine after the first month of so, them finish the "aging" on glass. The more cycles on a keg, the longer you can leave it on oak.

Good lucl,
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