No Bueno. No Bueno At All

[TunaSquat]

Well, my inaugural run didn't exactly go as planned. Though the cleaning runs weren't quick and several connections had leaks, I still had high hopes for my first UJSM stripping run. As was suggested in a previous thread, I removed the steel plate above my burner. The still definitely heated up much quicker, but I'd still still say it took a good hour and a half or so before I saw my first drops of liquor. It was shortly after this point where it all went wrong. I'm attaching a pic. Notice the scorching on the wall behind my still. I guess it could have been worse, I could have been cooking right next to my electrical panel. Oh wait, yep, there's my panel right there in the pic. Ugh. So...what would have caused this? Thanks.

[Bvritr]

what exactly happened? did the cap pop off splashing liquid that ignited?

[HDNB]

so apparently that insulation does not like long term exposure to heat and /or the exhaust components of burning gas.

maybe the middle of the shop next go, huh?

if that were grain you'd be calling that a mailliard effect?

[MichiganCornhusker]

Maybe that tiny soup can thumper was overwhelmed?

[TunaSquat]

Yeah, the cap blew off, and I had about a 6-8 ft ring of fire. But why would the cap blow off? There's nothing lodged in my tubing.

[HDNB]

Yeah, the cap blew off, and I had about a 6-8 ft ring of fire. But why would the cap blow off? There's nothing lodged in my tubing.

ooo...that must have been exciting!

i was gonna say, that tube looks small.

[BayouShine]

Yeah, the cap blew off, and I had about a 6-8 ft ring of fire. But why would the cap blow off? There's nothing lodged in my tubing.

Small diameter tubing and back pressure from the thumper was probably enough to break the flour paste seal. The old timers used to put a rock on top of the cap to keep it from popping off.

[TunaSquat]

Maybe that tiny soup can thumper was overwhelmed?

Haha, sure, blame the little guy. Seriously though, do you think that could have been a factor?

What about my fill level? Could overfilling cause that?

[TunaSquat]

What about too much heat?

[TunaSquat]

Small diameter tubing and back pressure from the thumper was probably enough to break the flour paste seal. The old timers used to put a rock on top of the cap to keep it from popping off.

I thought 3/8" was the acceptable minimum, no?

[still_stirrin]

Yeah, the cap blew off, and I had about a 6-8 ft ring of fire. But why would the cap blow off? There's nothing lodged in my tubing.

Small diameter tubing and back pressure from the thumper was probably enough to break the flour paste seal. The old timers used to put a rock on top of the cap to keep it from popping off.

Unfortunately, that does NOTHING to reduce internal pressure...it only allows it to increase to a higher pressure....more dangerous!!!

But as BayouShine said, the 3/8" copper tubing is too small and the length of it from beginning to end is simply too long...it has too much pressure drop along the tubing thereby creating a back pressure in the boiler. You must increase the size of the tubing to 1/2" ID minimum and preferably larger at least from the boiler to the thumper. And if the thumper were increased in size to equal 1/4 to 1/3 of the boiler's capacity, then it would make a better pressure surge vessel for the vapor flow.

Blowing the top off of the boiler was bad...but it was waaaaay better than what could have happened. It could have been the top of your still house blowing off, or at least engulfing in flames.

Bottomline....with your boiler setup, "size matters"...the size of the boiler, the size of the tubing from the boiler to the thumper, the size of the thumper, even the size of the worm.

Get'R safe.
ss

[TunaSquat]

Bottomline....with your boiler setup, "size matters"...the size of the boiler, the size of the tubing from the boiler to the thumper, the size of the thumper, even the size of the worm.

Get'R safe.
ss

Thanks guy. If that was the problem, I'll get it fixed. I'm about as laid back as it gets but this was a bit of a wake up call. I'll get it fixed assuming the boss doesn't put the kibosh on this whole hobby. She bought me this set up two months ago and I've been reading on these boards pretty religiously since that point. I was definitely aware that larger running tubing was preferred but I didn't think the alternative would have led to this.

[BayouShine]

Thanks guy. If that was the problem, I'll get it fixed. I'm about as laid back as it gets but this was a bit of a wake up call. I'll get it fixed assuming the boss doesn't put the kibosh on this whole hobby. She bought me this set up two months ago and I've been reading on these boards pretty religiously since that point. I was definitely aware that larger running tubing was preferred but I didn't think the alternative would have led to this.

It's definitely the problem. When you restrict the vapor path, you create resistance. Resistance causes pressure to build, then kaplooey!

You must increase the size of the tubing to 1/2" ID minimum and preferably larger at least from the boiler to the thumper. And if the thumper were increased in size to equal 1/4 to 1/3 of the boiler's capacity, then it would make a better pressure surge vessel for the vapor flow.

If you're planning to upgrade here, I would recommend upgrading the flake stand too. That little soup can won't be big enough to keep up with your still. Leibigs are a popular option and are relatively cheap to build.

[jb-texshine]

Who built that still?

[TunaSquat]

If you're planning to upgrade here, I would recommend upgrading the flake stand too. That little soup can won't be big enough to keep up with your still. Leibigs are a popular option and are relatively cheap to build.

Yeah, I ascertained from my cleaning runs that the condenser was going to be a bit of a problem. I've read up on the leibigs some. Would that be the best option even if water supply is not an issue for me?

[TunaSquat]

Who built that still?

It's a company on Amazon with good reviews. The craftsmanship seems good, but of course I'm no expert on still building.

[corene1]

Just from looking at the size of the boiler the thumper and tubing I would agree size is the problem I would also ask how much of a charge did you put in the thumper to start with? I am betting that with the size of the boiler, that the thumper got filled to capacity and flooded the incoming line from the boiler and acted like a semi closed valve causing a buildup of pressure in the boiler, then the excitement began. Remember that a good rule of thumb is the thumper should be 1/3 to 1/2 the size of the boiler capacity at a minimum.

[TunaSquat]

No, when it was all said and done, I had very little in the thumper. When I drained it, it was essentially just the cup or so if wash that I started with.

[BoomTown]

Well, my inaugural run didn't exactly go as planned. Though the cleaning runs weren't quick and several connections had leaks, I still had high hopes for my first UJSM stripping run. As was suggested in a previous thread, I removed the steel plate above my burner. The still definitely heated up much quicker, but I'd still still say it took a good hour and a half or so before I saw my first drops of liquor. It was shortly after this point where it all went wrong. I'm attaching a pic. Notice the scorching on the wall behind my still. I guess it could have been worse, I could have been cooking right next to my electrical panel. Oh wait, yep, there's my panel right there in the pic. Ugh. So...what would have caused this? Thanks.

I'd guess and say your pot will heat up lots quicker if you insulate it. Use a fiberglass Hot Water heater blanket, cut so that the bottom 4" of your pot remain exposed. As for the blow off, I'd suggest a larger diameter Lynn arm arrangement, at least for the first 18" off the still cap. Also, be sure you have about 2' of space behind the still and the wall, the scorching indicates you're not getting enough air circulating round the pot to offset the heat being thrown off the pot.

Also noted your running into a thumper. Be sure you're venting the input piping to the thumper with a gap between the pipe and the bottom of the thumper that is bigger than the diameter of the piping you are using. I always filled my thumper to be only 1/2 inch above the bottom of the input pipe to limit the back pressure on the lynn arm.

The good thing about your setup seems to be that you've not got any vapor leaks, keep up the good works, and good luck

[BoomTown]

Small diameter tubing and back pressure from the thumper was probably enough to break the flour paste seal. The old timers used to put a rock on top of the cap to keep it from popping off.

I thought 3/8" was the acceptable minimum, no?

NO! Safely use 1/2" for at least the level part, the Lynn arm will chill the steam coming out pretty fast if it has enough surface area to dissipate the heat, but 3/8" is simply too small, Once you get the vapor pointing down from the top of your sitll, if enough condensation is occurring in the channel to create a 'draw' in the internal volume of the Lynn arrangement, it should work like the draft of a chimney, add a pull to the vapor inside the still. Keep in mind the column of fluid inside the piping in your thumper is a negative but the fluid will seek to equalize overall in the thumper as the process works through the run. I drilled small holes in the bottom of our thumper feed so the vapor had sort of a spray escape patter (never was sure it ever worked that way, but the thumper never kicked back on me like your picture shows.)

[sltm1]

+1 on the thumper being too small and the 3/8 line is too small and waaaaay too long.

[BayouShine]

Yeah, I ascertained from my cleaning runs that the condenser was going to be a bit of a problem. I've read up on the leibigs some. Would that be the best option even if water supply is not an issue for me?

Depends on the size of your new lines. If you stick with 1/2", then a 3/4" over 1/2" leibeig should work just fine.

[nuntius01]

not much else to say. still has it right. great learning experience. glad nothing damaged and most importantly no one hurt. only thing i would add is i always have an extinguisher on hand. i'm sure you have one in the shop.

[TunaSquat]

I contacted the guy that runs the company that makes this still. He believes (and he's probably right) that I was running the still too hard. Is it possible that this set up would have worked just fine if I would have watched the temps as he suggests? He said a 20 gallon pot takes them 2 hours to get to 202. Don't get me wrong, I'm going to make some changes but maybe his stills aren't defective if run his way. What do you guys think?

[TunaSquat]

Is you guys' experience, how common is an occurrence like the one I had? Could I go my whole life and never see something like this again? It's clear to me now that the recommendations and advice on these boards is based on having equipment with an expected safety factor built in.

[MichiganCornhusker]

I contacted the guy that runs the company that makes this still. He believes (and he's probably right) that I was running the still too hard. Is it possible that this set up would have worked just fine if I would have watched the temps as he suggests? He said a 20 gallon pot takes them 2 hours to get to 202. Don't get me wrong, I'm going to make some changes but maybe his stills aren't defective if run his way. What do you guys think?

No. You shouldn't need to watch temps to keep your still from blowing apart.

In fact, when potstilling, you shouldn't need to pay any attention to temps at all.
You just don't want to put more heat into the system than your condenser can handle.

Any chance you could post a pic of the joint at the bottom of the boiler, where the side walls meet the bottom?
We had a guy post a solder joint failure a while back on a similar looking still because there was no lap joint where the sides met the bottom plate.

Looks like a decent boiler, I like the copper, just increase the sizes of the plumbing, thumper, and maybe replace the worm with a liebig and you should be good to go.

Good luck, keep us posted.

[jon1163]

I contacted the guy that runs the company that makes this still. He believes (and he's probably right) that I was running the still too hard. Is it possible that this set up would have worked just fine if I would have watched the temps as he suggests? He said a 20 gallon pot takes them 2 hours to get to 202. Don't get me wrong, I'm going to make some changes but maybe his stills aren't defective if run his way. What do you guys think?

No. You shouldn't need to watch temps to keep your still from blowing apart.

In fact, when potstilling, you shouldn't need to pay any attention to temps at all.
You just don't want to put more heat into the system than your condenser can handle.

Any chance you could post a pic of the joint at the bottom of the boiler, where the side walls meet the bottom?
We had a guy post a solder joint failure a while back on a similar looking still because there was no lap joint where the sides met the bottom plate.

Looks like a decent boiler, I like the copper, just increase the sizes of the plumbing, thumper, and maybe replace the worm with a liebig and you should be good to go.

Good luck, keep us posted.

+1.

I'd hate to have a still where if I put too much power into it it would cause an explosion. That's just unsafe.

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

So the guy that makes them, and took your money, said it wasn't the still, it was you that was the problem? Go figure.

Yet a bunch of wonderful people with nothing to gain have offered you free, educated, advice.

Where you gonna put your chips?

Beautiful boiler, BTW.

[Antler24]

The Amazon guy is full of what made the bull famous. I heat a 15g still and 7.5g thumper in an hour, never any pressure. The vapour lines are too small. The thumper is too small. The flake stand is too small.
I know you say you've been religiously reading here but if that's the case you should have known better man. I'd say the thumper over filled, and it built up pressure. I know you say there was only a cup of liquid in thEre but I'm willing to bet when the cap blew the pressure pushed most of the thumper contents back out through the cap onto the floor.

I think you need to take a step back and realize just how bad that coukd have been. You coukd have killed yourself and anyone else in the house.

[Kegg_jam]

Maybe you could run real slow and be ok on the undersized tubing/thumper/flake stand.

But why? Upsize and be happy...

Safer too.