Goals for 2018

[CaptainCanuck]

Hey all,

I decided to come up with some goals for this year and figured that I would post them in case somebody has some advice:

1 - Continue to fine tune the operation of the T500 (reflux column) to produce better Birdwatchers and WBAB
- I am still having trouble figuring out the proper output flow rate of alcohol

2 - Improve my ability to distinguish the transition from heads-to-hearts-to-tails

3 - Convince my father to stop using so much of the heads and tails from our distillation

4 - Figure out why some of my distillation goes cloudy when diluted with water

5 - Attempt to use the Still Spirits Botanical Basket (going to try a pineapple, or orange flavoring first)

6 - Try to explore the use of brown sugar
- I don't know if I should try in the original wash, or if I should attempt a stripping run with a WBAB, or Birdwatchers, then so a second spirit run mixing in some amount of a brown sugar wash

Any help, or advice is always appreciated.
Also, if I put this topic in the incorrect board let me know and I will delete, or move as appropriate.

[fizzix]

#3. Do Guide To Cuts method. Pop won't be able to deny where the good stuff begins and ends when it's all in sample jars.

[CaptainCanuck]

Fizzix,

We have been trying to follow the guide, thankfully. It was a win for me to get him to start making cuts (right now we are only cutting in 250ml jars). If it wasn't for the guide we probably still wouldn't be making cuts.

I think the problem lies with him being ex-Navy and is having trouble getting past the idea of "wasting" alcohol.

So far the compromise that I have found is with what we use for flavouring the alcohol. If we use some flavour packages (Still Spirits Cafelua, or Coconut Rum, etc...) then we use more heads and tails in those mixtures. When we flavour using infusions, or just want the neutral to drink on it's own we use more hearts.

It's not much, but at least it's something, ahhh the joys of distilling with others.

[Shinerfortyniner]

Have you tried the reduced chance of hangovers argument? Also, if you recycle the unused cuts into the next batch or an all feints run, you aren't wasting them.

Edited to add

I find doing cuts difficult. There are the technical issues: what am I tasting and smelling. There is the fear of messing up the blending. And there is the desire to get every possible drop of good stuff out of it i.e. not wasting any.

I've only done cuts in four batches and I kept putting them off. I finally saw how Jessie from the still it videos did it. I followed what he did and it worked out okay.

I resolve for 2018 to get in there and make the cuts.

Cheers

[cede]

#4 do you use distilled water for your dilution ? If no, minerals could cause cloudiness.

[Yummyrum]

I think the problem lies with him being ex-Navy and is having trouble getting past the idea of "wasting" alcohol.

OK what you do is throw the first Jar of Foreshots away . ....But , you keep all the heads and tails cuts ....we call them feints , and add them to the next distillation ...nothing wasted .
Reflux stills have the ability to separate out the fractions and the more you recycle them , the more defined the cut is and the more good stuff you get to keep . .......Sure this will appease the old bastard

Now Kiwis guide is awesome .I have elaborated on it Here with some practical guidance . Note that both Kiwis and Mine are showing Typical Pot still Cutting but the same applies to Reflux stills ....in fact Reflux stills are so much more easier to define cuts as the smearing is significantly reduced

[MichiganCornhusker]

Dealing with #3 will take care of #4.

[Expat]

#6 - brown sugar is just white sugar with a small amount of molasses added. Save your money. If want molasses, just buy some. You'll have better control of the flavor.

[Cu29er]

+1 on the brown sugar molasses situation.

[Swedish Pride]

#4 Chill filter or keep ABV over 46%.

[CaptainCanuck]

Have you tried the reduced chance of hangovers argument? Also, if you recycle the unused cuts into the next batch or an all feints run, you aren't wasting them.

Edited to add

I find doing cuts difficult. There are the technical issues: what am I tasting and smelling. There is the fear of messing up the blending. And there is the desire to get every possible drop of good stuff out of it i.e. not wasting any.

Cheers

Right now we don't tend to get loaded much anymore so hangovers are becoming less of an issue. Although I've have tried that argument.

I have thought about doing a feints run. I've even contemplated doing the feints run when trying out the botanical basket for the first time.
Doesn't a feints run have a reduced hearts section?

Right now our process for making cuts has been to simply make a cut every 250ml after we remove the first 125ml. We're trying to start using this method and then smelling and tasting after the fact to try and figure out what to look for.

[CaptainCanuck]

#6 - brown sugar is just white sugar with a small amount of molasses added. Save your money. If want molasses, just buy some. You'll have better control of the flavor.

+1 on the brown sugar molasses situation.

Makes sense on the brown sugar. I certainly can look at the molasses, it makes sense. Blackstrap if I am not mistaken, correct?
I'll have to browse the forums a bit to try and figure out how to prepare a wash with the molasses. I've read a bit on it, but not enough to know what I am doing.

[CaptainCanuck]

#4 Chill filter or keep ABV over 46%.

We haven't been filtering after distillation. We do run the blended cuts through a coffee filter before use.
I suppose that could be a problem.

Does a chilled filter really make a difference?

Most of what we have been making could be kept above 46% I suppose because it does seem to be smooth enough.

I am hoping to have a read through this post, there seems to be some good discussion here.
Spirit Cloudiness --- A Quick Effective Fix

#4 do you use distilled water for your dilution ? If no, minerals could cause cloudiness.

We've had the problem using both distilled water and well water. Although I did notice the last couple times we haven't been seeing the cloudiness.

[Shine0n]

Probably due to more tails in the final blend, also brown sugar and molasses makes a wonderful rum.

[Shinerfortyniner]

CC,

I find as I get older I'm more susceptible to those hang over feelings. I don't have to get wasted to have them some mornings.

As for the feints run having less hearts, I've heard that, but I haven't produced enough feints to have a run. Getting closer though.

Cheers

[hpby98]

#6 - brown sugar is just white sugar with a small amount of molasses added. Save your money. If want molasses, just buy some. You'll have better control of the flavor.

Unless it’s Demerara sugar. That much more of a complete “raw” product

[zapata]

Why not present your dad a breakdown of the costs? Once you've paid for the equipment, the cost per liter or gallon of sugar washes is super cheap. Even with super tight cuts, you're only tossing out a few dollars worth of spirit. If I was running with someone and they insisted on not "wasting" alcohol by making crappy cuts, I'd just pay them what the cuts cost!

I've never used a T500, but say you are currently keeping 80% of all distillate, I would guess that would be a pretty gross wide cut! 60% would be a much better tighter cut, but you are only increasing the cost of your booze by 20%. And what does a finished bottle cost you? $2? Who really wants to bicker over 40 cents, especially if the booze is notably better?

Or hell, just tell him some bullshit about some awesome new recipe some old sailor gave you that only uses heads and tails so you need to set those aside every run. Oh, and the recipe doesn't scale well, so you'll need all the heads and tails you can get from the next 5 or 6 runs. Give it a stupid name that will appeal to him, and tell him it's supposed to best thing ever AND you'll stop bitching at him about making tighter cuts. Hearts you can drink now, but heads and tails all go towards Old Jerry's Kraken Blood. Here's the recipe:
Old Jerry's Kraken Blood
Ingredients:
3 gallons Heads
3 gallons Tails
Instructions:
For best results, be VERY greedy. Get as much heads and tails from each run as possible, you don't want to waste anything!
Do NOT use the smooth middle cut for this recipe, it will ruin it!
Mix all ingredients together. If you don't have all the ingredients at one time, you can just mix them in everytime you get more ingredients.
Set them aside until they are forgotten.
Enjoy drinking good smooth booze in the meantime.
If someone refuses to forget about them, wait until you have at least a full recipe, dilute to 30% and run through the still, again making BIG heads and tails cuts.
Serves 20
See, not wasting anything, just making something different.

[Pikey]

I think there is some doubt as to whether the T500 actually does produce "Tails" at all - I believe the run "STOPS" before the "tails start" as the temperature is kept low.

[Expat]

#6 - brown sugar is just white sugar with a small amount of molasses added. Save your money. If want molasses, just buy some. You'll have better control of the flavor.

+1 on the brown sugar molasses situation.

Makes sense on the brown sugar. I certainly can look at the molasses, it makes sense. Blackstrap if I am not mistaken, correct?
I'll have to browse the forums a bit to try and figure out how to prepare a wash with the molasses. I've read a bit on it, but not enough to know what I am doing.

Depends on what flavor profile you want. I tend to use the fancy molasses for the lighter flavor.

[CaptainCanuck]

I think there is some doubt as to whether the T500 actually does produce "Tails" at all - I believe the run "STOPS" before the "tails start" as the temperature is kept low.

I've wondered this myself. I don't notice any difference in the cooling water temperature towards the end of a run, or rather sudden spikes in temperature. I also don't see a difference in ABV throughout the entire run.
I have trouble believing that it doesn't produce tails though.

[CaptainCanuck]

Depends on what flavor profile you want. I tend to use the fancy molasses for the lighter flavor.

I figured I would be using a mixture of white sugar and blackstrap anyways, so using fancy isn't that much of a stretch. It's one big experiment so I can easily try both.

[CaptainCanuck]

Nice Zapata!

I think what will probably happen is that the heads/tails will be used for the second distillation to start screwing around with the Still Spirits Botanical basket.
That way at least I'll be experimenting with the "lesser" product.

In all fairness I am making the heads/tails out to be a bigger issue than it is right now.

[cdd]

I run my t500 slightly out of spec after hearts cut (70c water outlet). There is just too much alcohol left in the boiler.

[Twisted Brick]

but heads and tails all go towards Old Jerry's Kraken Blood. Here's the recipe:
Old Jerry's Kraken Blood
Ingredients:
3 gallons Heads
3 gallons Tails
Instructions:
For best results, be VERY greedy. Get as much heads and tails from each run as possible, you don't want to waste anything!
Do NOT use the smooth middle cut for this recipe, it will ruin it!
Mix all ingredients together. If you don't have all the ingredients at one time, you can just mix them in everytime you get more ingredients.
Set them aside until they are forgotten.
Enjoy drinking good smooth booze in the meantime.
If someone refuses to forget about them, wait until you have at least a full recipe, dilute to 30% and run through the still, again making BIG heads and tails cuts.
Serves 20
See, not wasting anything, just making something different.

Ha ha ha! LMFAO!!!

[Pikey]

I think there is some doubt as to whether the T500 actually does produce "Tails" at all - I believe the run "STOPS" before the "tails start" as the temperature is kept low.

I've wondered this myself. I don't notice any difference in the cooling water temperature towards the end of a run, or rather sudden spikes in temperature. I also don't see a difference in ABV throughout the entire run.
I have trouble believing that it doesn't produce tails though.

Since the head temperature is kept low to avoid melting / denaturing the plastics in the column, the T500 (I believe) goes into full reflux before the boiler temperature ever gets up high enough to vapourise the last of the alcohol. (The last of the alcohol = the Tails) - Hence "The T500 does not produce "tails" - again as far as I understand it.

I think you could prove this for yourself by letting the coolant temperature rise a little after the still "stops" - and measure it to see what abv you are getting. [Please do let us know ]

I run my t500 slightly out of spec after hearts cut (70c water outlet). There is just too much alcohol left in the boiler.

I actually got banned and every one of my posts deleted from one forum, for expressing my opinion that what cdd states, is what the T500 did when run "in spec".

@cdd - I think you'll find in some older threads on here, that an absolute maximum head temperature of 85 deg C should NOT be exceeded because of the plastics. I don't know how exactly the temp of the cooling water relates to the head temp - but please do be careful when over-gunning the T500.

[Edit, I do understand that the column attachment clamp is a pretty standard size and can be used to use your own "pot head" or even a Boka type build to the boler, which with a power controller (dozens of threads) - could give a complete range of flexibility from one of these ]

[Hoosier Shine9]

Dealing with #3 will take care of #4.

+1
but I was going to say #4 see #3.

[cdd]

@cdd - I think you'll find in some older threads on here, that an absolute maximum head temperature of 85 deg C should NOT be exceeded because of the plastics. I don't know how exactly the temp of the cooling water relates to the head temp - but please do be careful when over-gunning the T500.

[Edit, I do understand that the column attachment clamp is a pretty standard size and can be used to use your own "pot head" or even a Boka type build to the boler, which with a power controller (dozens of threads) - could give a complete range of flexibility from one of these ]

I just measured my t500 tails cut @70c water outlet temp and after temp correction, i get 90.4 abv. I don't have an Infrared thermometer (it's on my purchase list but I need a fire extinguisher first and funds are limited) but to me, this looks good enough.

[CaptainCanuck]

Since the head temperature is kept low to avoid melting / denaturing the plastics in the column, the T500 (I believe) goes into full reflux before the boiler temperature ever gets up high enough to vapourise the last of the alcohol. (The last of the alcohol = the Tails) - Hence "The T500 does not produce "tails" - again as far as I understand it.

I think you could prove this for yourself by letting the coolant temperature rise a little after the still "stops" - and measure it to see what abv you are getting. [Please do let us know ]

So during the last run we let the outlet temperature rise, presumably as the still was "stopping". We did not let it rise beyond 75-78degC. First observation was that the alcohol was warmer coming out of the still. When we took a measurement the ABV dropped to around 42% from a consistent 92% for everything prior. We stopped before finishing 250ml at that point.

[Pikey]

#6 - brown sugar is just white sugar with a small amount of molasses added. Save your money. If want molasses, just buy some. You'll have better control of the flavor.

Unless it’s Demerara sugar. That much more of a complete “raw” product

You CAN still get proper Muscovado as well - but it's dear - Or you have to be "In the right place at the right time" and prepared to take a decent quantity. -

[Expat]

#6 - brown sugar is just white sugar with a small amount of molasses added. Save your money. If want molasses, just buy some. You'll have better control of the flavor.

Unless it’s Demerara sugar. That much more of a complete “raw” product

You CAN still get proper Muscovado as well - but it's dear - Or you have to be "In the right place at the right time" and prepared to take a decent quantity. -

Both Demerara and Muscovado are just different levels of retained molasses. You're going to dissolve it in water anyways so it makes good as no difference, you might as well get the best value and control and just buy molasses.

But hey its your money to burn...