Ontario Still Shops - buying a Canadian made still

[DudeBud]

Hey team,

So i am still very much a n00b to these forums, so i apologize in advance if this is not the correct location for this post.

I have been doing a lot of reading here, but notice a lot of the information on prebuilt stills is coming out of the USA and Netherlands.
With all of the Canadians on here, I am wondering if you guys are not building you own still then where are you getting your equipment from? (and yes, I know that building your own still is a very rewarding part of the whole experience - i just don't have the metal working resources right now) Also, with our dollar down compared to the USD would it not make more sense to buy from a Canadian location to avoid a nasty exchange rate?

I've seen that there is a "market" section of approved manufacturers, but i like to physically go to a shop and see with my own eyes what i am buying versus hoping and praying that what i put into my online cart is what i actually get when it is delivered.
Being located in Guelph, I found a still maker in the Toronto area. - Has anyone ever bought anything from "North Stills" before?
I was looking at buying this unit: http://www.northstills.com/product/6-pl ... re-boiler/
I also read somewhere here that 30L is what the forums considers the max size for hobby stills, but i was hoping that if I buy a really good still in the beginning of my career I'll never need to upgrade unless i want to. - I was also looking at this still because I wanted a quality unit that I would be able to make a consistent quality product that i could reliably reproduce. I was hoping a unit like this could be a semi-pro stepping stone to make development batches and hone my craft until i find a recipe that i would want to share with the world.

I am very much of the mindset - if you try and play it cheap, you end up actually paying more in the long run.
Now I ask the team, am i on the right path? - or do you think i am throwing away my hard earned cash?
I am looking to make flavoured vodkas.

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

-DudeBud

[Antler24]

30 gallons is the max size, not liters. I've never heard of north stills. Only still manufacturer (or seller) I've heard of in Canada is broken oar in BC. Theres a member here with a full setup from them and he's happy with it. IMO an online store with a great reputation is better than a local place you know nothing about.

I'd still recommend you buy a keg and build a simple pot still head, sweating copper is easy and you'll save alot of money.

[cede]

Had a quick eye on the site and looks like the same stills you find again and again in China but the price is more than domestic one !
I don't know them.
https://www.096stills.com/ is around for a long time and also sells chinese stuff. Rule seems to be to double the chinese price too.

I'd also tell you: do yourself a favor and build one even if you know a little about plumbing, you will learn and people here will help !

[zed255]

Some homebrew shops carry / offer stilling equipment, so you might have to expand your search to include those types of suppliers too.

If you want a vodka, I might suggest a reflux setup you can operate as a pot still. Do stripping in 'pot mode' and create the neutral in 'reflux mode'. You can then flavour either by infusion / maceration or re-run the neutral with flavouring in a gin basket or the boiler, again in 'pot mode'.

I can't speak for the capabilities of the flute, but seems to me whiskey guys like them. They apparently allow flavour transfer, output a more consistent ABV and are relatively fast compared to other still types. They are also expensive to buy and look like one would need good skills as a fabricator to build. There are other types of still that are dead easy to make and cost efficient, like a CCVM.

I'm only live about 45 minutes drive from you and work within about 20 minutes drive. On a global scale, our backyards adjoin!

[HDNB]

the only good reason i can think of to buy a still is if you are going pro and the government insists that you use a "commercially available" still.
the only other reason is you got too much cash and you need to stoke your ego.

really, a copper pot head will make fine whiskey and rum and all it is?? ... pipe with a condensor on it.

if you want neutral, build a DAD300 CCVM...you don't need to solder a friggin' thing! (actually if you pull the RC, you have the aforementioned pot head)

if you do got too much cash...broken oar, brewhaus canada (i think ian smiley does this one), a guy in edmonton calls his company hawke probate...or something like that. so there is 3 more options for ya.

[Antler24]

the only good reason i can think of to buy a still is if you are going pro and the government insists that you use a "commercially available" still.
the only other reason is you got too much cash and you need to stoke your ego.

really, a copper pot head will make fine whiskey and rum and all it is?? ... pipe with a condensor on it.

if you want neutral, build a DAD300 CCVM...you don't need to solder a friggin' thing! (actually if you pull the RC, you have the aforementioned pot head)

if you do got too much cash...broken oar, brewhaus canada (i think ian smiley does this one), a guy in edmonton calls his company hawke probate...or something like that. so there is 3 more options for ya.

I agree with most if that. I built my still but when/if I upgrade to flute I'll be buying. No I don't have lots of cash or need to boost my ego, I just have no time.

[DudeBud]

Alright, I called the shop. - Spoke with Dillon, North Stills owner.

Zed255 we may need to take a little road trip to North York (Toronto) if your down for a ride. - I was told North Stills operates a fab shop which doubles as a storefront on Dufferin and Steeles. Apparently Dillon said he used to be a member of these forums and provides equipment to the other Canadian still shops that HDNB mentioned; Broken Oar, and Hawkes Probate. (not sure about Brewhaus) Dillon said they manufacture the heat controllers there in his shop that the other Canadian shops buy off of him (as they are CSA approved), which is why I wanted to check this place out. The other claim was that of his product offerings 70% of the copper stills where from China, and he says he creates in house the other 30%. I was told that the majority of copper stills in use by Canadian distilleries are products from China, does anyone have any evidence to support/refute this?
Again, not trying to start a flame war here, however was told that the copper stills from Still Dragon, Hawkes, Broken Oar, MileHi, and Hill-Billy Stills are all Chinese made and from the same manufacturer overseas. - again, does anyone have any evidence to support/refute this? After hearing this, if you do look up the flutes and boilers on these sites, they do look very similar... - North Stills said they just broke ties with this same manufacturer over quality concerns....? Poor craftsmanship I'm told... Like, i mean he didn't sound like a total dick on the phone as I was asking real questions, but i'm tossing it back to the forums here to find truth.

Man, why does it seem like there is so much shade in the still manufacturing biz?


Here's his FB page:
https://www.facebook.com/northstills/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Sales to Sussex NB: (look in the background)
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-bruns ... -1.4446072" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

And am told that his still is in use for the Muskoka Breweries gin;
https://muskokabrewery.com/spirits-gin/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[HDNB]

it's a competitive world out there...i can't say if it all comes from the same chinese facvtory, but i'd wager it all comes from a chinese factory.

i musta needed an ego stroke because i bought a bunch of SS from Larry. all in all a good experience and i thoroughly checked prices of all...including going piece by piece and cobbling together from multiple sources. SD prices proved out to be only pennies higher than cobbling together from the best prices i could get from multiple sources....i decided to pay him the bit extra for doing the legwork for me and having it all together in one place and giving me the ease of ordering from one place. he earned the few sheckles he made for sure.

hawke did not exist when i bought

brewhause canada didn't have what i wanted (i bought a bunch of stuff years ago from brewhaus USA and that too was a good experience.)

broken oar proved too hard to get ahold of when i was shopping, maybe he was busy ATM because i've heard good things about him,,,but i could not reach him at the time.

i have no first hand knowledge of north stills or the 096 or whatever was mentioned ^^^

while talking about sources for stuff... i did find a great deal on enzymes though (and some nice yeast) at a company called ferm solutions. they look all pro-only online, but they sell small quantities if you need. like a liter of enzyme for 16 bux. that will convert about a tonne of grain if yer so inclined.

what i was sayin' earlier^^^ was if i knew then what i know now...it's pretty easy to make hobby sized equipment at a reasonable cost and that CCVM is soooo effing easy.... i don't really know if a 3" flute is any faster than a 3" pipe...but i spent the dough so no ragrets right? it is cool to watch and look at.

last edit: since i'm currently wearing a green jacket, this is not to be construed as OK by the forum or site. I'm not shilling for anyone, just my personal opinions and experiences on buying stuff from a few vendors that are not on the shit list here. do your due diligence, read the rules at the top of the page there is a list of vendors who will burn you if you offer up a CC number.

[cede]

HDNB thanks for the hook on the yeasts I will give it a try sometime if I can get some here in Canada.

I must say I don't care where the stills are made as far as the price matches the workmanship and the price is right for my wallet.
Too many still sellers where hiding the truth some years back.

I saw so many crap coming from China. For myself of for work. For work we have someone in China checking the products before shipping, and from time to time some pallets do not leave China. The first orders where perfect and then the quality rapidly degraded until we found people there to inspect the goods before shipping and paying.

Younger I always wanted to build everything by myself, but I learned the hard way that sometimes the learning curve is really hard and time consuming. Time is money and it might be better to spend some money buying something and use that time to do what you are best at. Still got too many projects in boxes anyway

I don't think you need to buy an approved still if you're pro. I never read that in the papers of CBSA nor provincial agency.
The only thing you need to be approved and tested are thermometers and hydrometers.

[HDNB]

I don't think you need to buy an approved still if you're pro. I never read that in the papers of CBSA nor provincial agency.
The only thing you need to be approved and tested are thermometers and hydrometers.

it's an excise Canada rule... "commercially available" is the wording. and yeah the hydro and thermos not only need certification from the manufacturer, they have to be lab certified again by the excise Canada laboratory. plus a scale (weights and measures Canada certified) big enough to weigh your largest storage vessel.

[zed255]

Alright, I called the shop. - Spoke with Dillon, North Stills owner.

Zed255 we may need to take a little road trip to North York (Toronto) if your down for a ride.

I would not be opposed to checking it out someday. If serious, move the conversation to PMs.

[cede]

it's an excise Canada rule... "commercially available" is the wording. and yeah the hydro and thermos not only need certification from the manufacturer, they have to be lab certified again by the excise Canada laboratory. plus a scale (weights and measures Canada certified) big enough to weigh your largest storage vessel.

I was aware of the scale but I missed the commercially available one. But "commercially available", can mean you will not build it yourself but have it built by a shop

[The Baker]

Maybe to be 'commercially available' you could make it yourself (under your own name or a 'trade name...) and offer the same thing for sale to others....
If it was not inexpensive you would get no offers but it would be commercially available....

A farmer relation MADE a big tractor. Not long after the war and he used the transmission from a war surplus tank! And I think a big Caterpillar engine.
To register it he had to quote a manufacturer and serial number.
For the company he quoted his own initials; for the serial number, his date of birth.
Some of these requirements you can get around, they just want something in all the boxes.

Geoff

P. S. That tractor is still working today. G.

[HDNB]

I was talking to a local craft guy and he was telling me that another local crafty called "red cup" distilling had his equipment made by a local shop and that it had passed muster. (a little third party, second hand knowledge there for ya...my mom used to call it "gossip")
i think it's more a case of they want someone to be able to sue someone in the event of a catastrophic failure...it is Canada after all...the land of "sorry, but it ain't my fault"

[Expat]

I was talking to a local craft guy and he was telling me that another local crafty called "red cup" distilling had his equipment made by a local shop and that it had passed muster. (a little third party, second hand knowledge there for ya...my mom used to call it "gossip")
i think it's more a case of they want someone to be able to sue someone in the event of a catastrophic failure...it is Canada after all...the land of "sorry, but it ain't my fault"

"Red Cup - Legal Moonshine using only Wheat and Water with Grandma's yeast. No Chemicals, Additives, Nutrients, Filters, or Neutral Grain Spirit."

Hopefully no one tells them that Wheat and Water are chemicals..... I really hate the misuse of this word.

[cede]

it is Canada after all...the land of "sorry, but it ain't my fault"

Ahahah In QC they have french heritage for all that bureaucratic jam. It's just another layer of "ain't my fault" that costs a lot !

[DudeBud]

After my post, i was contacted by Dylan at North Stills;
Apparently I'm told he tried to post on this thread but says he was denied and the post deleted as he is a still supplier.

Dylan's message regarding my post:

I did not say that all of MileHi and Hillbillys equipment is made in China. I said that they sell some components that are (like milk cans for example). It is a well known fact that they also manufacture in North America. Basically you angled it to look like I said that I'm the only company who doesn't sell exclusively Chinese equipment. And that's not true. I am aware you meant no harm in [posting] and appreciate you editing. - Just saying that a post like that can create unnecessary drama between suppliers... Just saying...

That was posted to clear the air. - Cheers.

[HDNB]

After my post, i was contacted by Dylan at North Stills;
Apparently I'm told he tried to post on this thread but says he was denied and the post deleted as he is a still supplier.

Dylan's message regarding my post:

I did not say that all of MileHi and Hillbillys equipment is made in China. I said that they sell some components that are (like milk cans for example). It is a well known fact that they also manufacture in North America. Basically you angled it to look like I said that I'm the only company who doesn't sell exclusively Chinese equipment. And that's not true. I am aware you meant no harm in [posting] and appreciate you editing. - Just saying that a post like that can create unnecessary drama between suppliers... Just saying...

That was posted to clear the air. - Cheers.

when was it kicked? i checked back to last saturday and didn't see a delete. If it had links it may have been refused as advertizing or if there was no welcome post first it would not get posted. if he's a member he should share his knowledge. no need to link in, people can figure most shit out on their own.

BTW i wasn't slagging anyone ^^^ saying most are made in " A chinese factory"...that's just my conspiracy theory that everything is made in a chinese factory.
not even slagging (all) chinese factories, some of them make some pretty nice stuff. (some don't)

[whiskyb]

Been away for a few years (busy, not jail) and am back looking to finish what I started, Good to see a Canadian thread.

Thanks for the links so far

[Brokenjeep]

Being located in Guelph, I found a still maker in the Toronto area. - Has anyone ever bought anything from "North Stills" before?
I was looking at buying this unit: http://www.northstills.com/product/6-pl ... re-boiler/

Hey again DudeBud, I hadn't checked in for a while but that is what I picked up eh.. 50l 4 plate from North Stills. Not that I have much to compare it to but construction seems pretty solid. Sanitary clamps/seals between the windows are a little temperamental and leak on occasion but I think that is a general item with this design.

Two other things on this thread.. this is the first I had heard about "commercially available" for equipment to qualify for excise Canada but I am still in early stages of considering legit... I think I should be ok if I go that path.

The other thing is it would be hugely beneficial to compare notes on this rig if anyone else out there running one! Flutes seem to be an art form all on their own and very individual! If you head out this way PM me!

[DudeBud]

Hey BrokenJeep,
I just picked up a 6 plate system, have yet to assemble it. - Right off the bat I noticed all of the gasket seals are silicone. I will need to swap these all out with PTFE gaskets before any hot ethanol rolls through. - I am still gathering components and will let you know (and everyone on here) on outcome when i fire up the system. - The guys at North Stills are very friendly and are looking for repeat business, so i'm hopeful they will help me if it turns out there are any issues with the unit.

Likewise with the PM, sorry didn't see your message before heading out to TO.

Cheers!

[Expat]

For the prices they are asking I would expect proper gaskets for a start.

[Mainer7]

Hey team,

So i am still very much a n00b to these forums, so i apologize in advance if this is not the correct location for this post.

I have been doing a lot of reading here, but notice a lot of the information on prebuilt stills is coming out of the USA and Netherlands.
With all of the Canadians on here, I am wondering if you guys are not building you own still then where are you getting your equipment from? (and yes, I know that building your own still is a very rewarding part of the whole experience - i just don't have the metal working resources right now) Also, with our dollar down compared to the USD would it not make more sense to buy from a Canadian location to avoid a nasty exchange rate?

I've seen that there is a "market" section of approved manufacturers, but i like to physically go to a shop and see with my own eyes what i am buying versus hoping and praying that what i put into my online cart is what i actually get when it is delivered.
Being located in Guelph, I found a still maker in the Toronto area. - Has anyone ever bought anything from "North Stills" before?
I was looking at buying this unit: http://www.northstills.com/product/6-pl ... re-boiler/
I also read somewhere here that 30L is what the forums considers the max size for hobby stills, but i was hoping that if I buy a really good still in the beginning of my career I'll never need to upgrade unless i want to. - I was also looking at this still because I wanted a quality unit that I would be able to make a consistent quality product that i could reliably reproduce. I was hoping a unit like this could be a semi-pro stepping stone to make development batches and hone my craft until i find a recipe that i would want to share with the world.

I am very much of the mindset - if you try and play it cheap, you end up actually paying more in the long run.
Now I ask the team, am i on the right path? - or do you think i am throwing away my hard earned cash?
I am looking to make flavoured vodkas.

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

-DudeBud

Am I the only one that looked @ the link and shit my pants when I saw the price, $3550???!!!!! And w this hobby Dudeman (absolutely love that name btw), u say u "dont have time"; this hobby requires nothing BUT time!

[Mainer7]

Sorry, meant "Dudebud" not "Dudeman", which would still be just as cool in its own right.

[HDNB]

Am I the only one that looked @ the link and shit my pants when I saw the price, $3550???!!!!! And w this hobby Dudeman (absolutely love that name btw), u say u "dont have time"; this hobby requires nothing BUT time!

ya know, when i first saw this i almost modded it off to the netherworld, it looked like a sneaky way to get some advertising in. but then it occurred to me that Canadians actually need some information on where to buy and who is reasonable.
often the attempt by (new to the game) still sellers to tout their wares here ends up the same way, almost like anti-marketing.

they could all learn a thing or two from Larry and Odin...contribute, be supportive and share... and the organic growth will follow. trying to dive in head first with a me too! post has always yielded the same results.

i thought the pricing was nuts too, however, most Canadians already know our government is selling our economy off at every avenue and to make a business run in this country you have to run at 40 points just to make the vig for big brother...if you want a profit 50 points is the go-to number.
The taxes here are so abusive that any sane businessman is folding up his tent and heading south.

[Sharks_n_danger]

it's an excise Canada rule... "commercially available" is the wording.

Sorry to drag up an old thread, but can anyone point me to where this wording is? I’ve gone through the Excise act and the memos and seem to have missed it.