3" VM expected output rate

[needmorstuff]

Just getting to grips with my new 3" VM.

its got a 120cm packed section, first 12cm is tightly rolled copper mesh, then there'S 1m Of SPP.

The valve is wide open, the temp in the TEE is 78.1c (172.5g f) - I am getting 2.2 litres per hour. That's from 11% low wines. Output was 94.5 @ 7c - correct to 97%.. so the output seems good and aezo but I expected a bit more output.

That was my sacrifical run and normally I would run with stripped low wines at 30% so that's for another day.

Thoughts?

[ShineRunner]

How much power are you throwing at it?

[needmorstuff]

it's got 2 x 2.4kw elements

[still_stirrin]

My thoughts....This thread should be in the "My First" forum, not here in the Research & Theory forum.

Admins???

[HDNB]

My thoughts....This thread should be in the "My First" forum, not here in the Research & Theory forum.

Admins???

By your command, sire.

2.2LPH azeo off 11% wash sounds pretty good to me.

[still_stirrin]

2.2LPH azeo off 11% wash sounds pretty good to me.

+1.

Better than 2 lph at 94%ABV from an 11% wash given around 5kW input is good, especially through a meter of copper mesh. I know it's a lot of power through a 3" riser, but you've obviously got a high reflux ratio as evidenced by your product proof. And a meter of packing in a 3" column will consume a lot of power.

Now, if you strip it to 30%ABV and then do your spirit run, you'll likely run quicker and cleaner throughout the run. You probably could even turn down your reflux ratio a little and still maintain azeo.

Chin up, you're doing OK.
ss

[needmorstuff]

nice! and apologies about the thread placement.

To be clear, I have a 125mm section of copper mesh tightly wound (length is 5.5.m rolled into a cylinder) this is to hold the spp in place. I then have 1m of SPP.

The 94% distillate was at 7c, so corrected it is the 97% region (although that's not possible so I guess that is showing the inadequacies of a $5 spirit hydrometer)

That was just the sacrifical run, in future I will run my washes through it in pot still mode first. Then go for the spirit run.

overall the first impression of the VM (in comparison to my only other experience of running a CM t500) is that it's so much easier as there is no messing around with tiny adjustments to the water flow. I didn't touch a thing from start to finish.

[kimbodious]

You will need greater level of control when running higher proof low wines in the VM still. Consider a power controller for one of the elements.

[frunobulax]

You'll get a better take off rate if you run a stripped wash, amd in my opinion much cleaner of a neutral too.
With my 3'' Boka I run about 3 Qts. per hour Off of a stripped wash.

[needmorstuff]

I am nothing if not prepared, I have the controller ready and waiting!

trouble is I have never done that so it's new to me.. both the 3" and the increased power. I certainly don't want to slow output just for the sake of it.. I guess slowing it down is required to stop smearing but how do you measure smearing? temp/abv/smell etc.. and i guess once it's happened and detected the damage is done.

[bluefish_dist]

It is a matter of balancing takeoff, reflux and power. Personally I like to keep vapor speed less than 20ft/s for neutrals and then adjust reflux/takeoff to hold azeo.

To truly know abv at or close to azeo you will need a high precision hydrometer. They run about $35. The cheap home brew ones can be way off.

Your takeoff rate seems about right for 3". I can run 4.5l/hr with a 4" from low wines.

[needmorstuff]

$35 seems reasonable to me.. you got a link?

and how do you calculate vapor speed?

[bluefish_dist]

Cole-parmer sells Hydrometers that read .2 proof. Fwiw I checked my brew store hydrometer against my high precision one and the brew shop read 4 proof low.

Do a google search for column speed calculator. Several will come up. I got my hand slapped for posting a link to a page not allowed, so I no longer post links.

[needmorstuff]

this one looks promising.
https://www.coleparmer.co.uk/i/h-b-inst ... er/0829621" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

and I lied about my heating.. I have 2 x 2kw elements..

Looking into vapour speed now.. i guess thats a whole new can of works to open.

I am looking out for a cheap 3" sight glass to put into the column before the TEE section.. curious to see whats going on in there.. check for flooding etc.

On another note I was actually amazed how fast the vapour went up the column when it reached whatever temp/boil stage it was at, I could feel it rise very quickly and my thermo in the TEE section went from 7c to 78.1 in seconds.

[zapata]

If your valve really is wide open, I'm not sure you'll get any faster production even using low wines. Since VM works on volume of vapor and you're at azeo, those conditions won't change by increasing the abv of the still charge. Sounds like your VM branch and/or valve is smaller than the path to reflux condenser?

If so the only way to speed it up any more would be with a bigger VM branch and/or valve or something to restrict vapor flow to the reflux condenser. Either say a constrictor plate or even some packing above the VM to offer a bit of resistance.

Edit to add, crunched some numbers, and making an assumption on how insulated your system is I guess you're running a reflux ratio of between 1:7 and 1:8, which means if you're valve really is wide open it must be a fair bit smaller than your column, or something else screwy is going on. I don't personally have experience with SPP so I hesitate to say you could do fine with a faster takeoff by running a lower reflux rate, but I would guess you could but your design is preventing that. Got a pic or a build thread?

[needmorstuff]

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=69704

it's a 3 inch equal Tee into a couple of reducers down to a 1" SS gate valve. it's not insulated at all. I think there is merit in insulating the boiler but the jury is out on insulating the column from the mixed opinions on this forum.

[zapata]

That 1" valve makes your product to reflux ratio 1:9 So it matches pretty well with your results. I think if you want to run faster you'll have to upgrade the valve or restrict the path to reflux condenser. (Or increase power, but not sure you want to do that)

I dont think there is any debate insulating a column is beneficial. It is less of an issue for ss than cu just because it transmits less heat. But no doubt insulation improves the stability and functioning of a reflux still.

[kimbodious]

I dont think there is any debate insulating a column is beneficial. It is less of an issue for ss than cu just because it transmits less heat. But no doubt insulation improves the stability and functioning of a reflux still.

+1 and an insulated boiler is quicker to heat up and uses less energy for the run