comparring columns

[pynys pub]

Is there anyone out there that can touch on the comparison of reflux columns between Mile Hi which is a jacket style around the column and Brewhaus which the three cooling tubes travel through the column ? Is one more efficient than the other? Is one quicker than the other? Etc ? Looking on making the correct choice .

[zapata]

I guess I'll be the first...
Build. You can easily build a better still, have more fun, and know it inside out and backwards. You're gonna eventually build one anyway, might as well start now. Yes, you have the time. Yes, you can do it with no prior experience.
(In my defense I don't have experience with either still, and every time I've looked at either in the past I saw details I would build differently. Hopefully someone chimes in with experience, but I will always vote for DIY)

[fizzix]

Cannot argue with Zapata as he has good input as usual. But if I were going to purchase (and I did after researching the two styles)...

The jacket style causes reflux action at the perimeter of the column pipe, allowing flow down the inside walls of the column. This capillary action = less efficiency.
The 3-tube Brewhaus style permits more centralized dripping which is truer to the concept of reflux.

[Danespirit]

+1 On what the guys wrote.

Both stills are CM type.
The "through-pipe" version from Brewhaus is an outdated design, which makes cleaning and filling the column more difficult than it has to be.
Imagine using mesh in this column...it will be a pita to get it stuffed in there as the only opinion is to fill it from the bottom and up.
Btw..the finish on it ain't what I consider ok as one clearly see the grind marks where the tubes go in.
Another issue is what they call " Bung- Pure Tan Gum Rubber". Which is nothing more than a potential health risk, with a hole for the thermometer.
That's an issue I found on both stills btw..
I know perfectly well people that sell these stills will say the rubber is ok and bla,bla,bla.. No it's not!
Also, keep in mind a CM still is a bit more fiddly to run as other types like LM and VM. It's due to the design and the fact one regulates the temperature in the still head with the cooling water.

My advice would be, to have a look at the build threads in here before you rush out of the door to buy one.
A simple CCVM still can be built relatively cheap, with a minimum of tools and metal work skills.
The modular build would be the way to go. I use nothing but tri-clamps and threaded fittings for my equipment, so parts are interchangeable for another setup.
Why not start with a simple pot still, learn the basics, and take it from there...? You won't regret having a pothead ( ) for flavored and stripping runs.

[fizzix]

Hey Dane~ I have to defend the Brewhaus PSII.
The mesh in the Brewhaus is easy to insert and remove. It guides in very easily.
And you're right about the gum stopper --I replaced it with a #28 cork: Amazon #28 Cork. Screw the thermometer.
I've heard the arguments over the Brewhaus PSII being outdated, but I have to say it is easy to tame and is well balanced with a 1500W modified (non-cycling) hotplate.
On my best days, I've pulled off 95%; 85% when I'm not trying. The weld joints are beautiful on mine. Nice clean bead, no grind marks anywhere at all.
Of course, I have no experience with any other still, but I'm certainly pleased with Brewhaus.

[still_stirrin]

OK boys, lets not argue.

To “buy” may be the OP’s only option...sometimes geographic location makes it difficult to find building materials. To build is quite easy, and can be done by the most inept technician. But still, it will require a few basic skills....like watching youtube!!!

But for the two CM reflux columns inquired about, the concentric reflux condenser will be the most efficient provided it is properly filled with scrubbies. The packing will wick any condensate away from the vapor tube/column walls back into the flow of uprising hot vapors, which is what will catalyze the reflux process. Reflux is the “reboiling” of falling condensate by the tranfer of energy from the hot vapors as well as the condensing of rising vapors through the falling condensate. This process is what separates the more volatile constituents from the less volatile. It will “stack the column”.

The cross tube reflux condenser is less efficient at this process because of the diminuitive surface area of the cross tubes and the contact time with the rising vapors. Again, filling with thermal conducting (copper => ideal) scrubbies will increase the contact area and enhance the condensing power, making it more efficient. Colder water is typically necessary when using the cross tube RC, although water flow rate should not require more throughput.

The concentric RC’s efficiency will somewhat depend on how long the water jacket is, as that is fundamental to the dwell time for the rising vapors through the condenser section. But increasing the surface for the vapors to condense on, will dramatically improve the condenser’s performance (and control of the reflux process).

I have a 14” concentric RC atop my combination (concentric) LM/VM head and it easily manages the vapor rate from 2.2kW input (2” x 39” glass marble packed column). After stabilization and initial stacking, I typically run at 1.5kW through the run, pulling azeo throughout. I do have the top of the concentric RC lightly filled with copper scrubbies, simply to improve the RC’s efficiency...very low water flow rate is needed to condense all the vapors. The scrubbies increase the conducting surface area in the condenser section, as described above.

Gotta’ buy?....I’d prefer the concentric condenser style. But, for the money, you could build a better one...pay yourself the labor cost instead of some build shop somewhere in China. And if building, build it with copper...it’ll improve the finished product as well. Experience knows this....you should too.
ss

[Cu29er]

.

Make sure if you are using packing you have ultra-clear boil material with plenty of headspace below the packing.
Otherwise you risk plugging and catastrophe. And check the packing above the pot before and after every run.

First time 'stilling best to do 2x or 3x on a simple design.

.

[pynys pub]

Hey guys , thanks for all the well valued info. I guess I was a little vague on the Question. There is no way that I would be buying, simply because I've been in skilled trades near 30 plus years and work in a sanitary tube food industry. I was more getting the feel of these two different designs in deciding on which to build. As for mounting a thermometer at the top , I would for sure be welding in a coupling where required and not be using a rubber bung. As for the column I'm thinking of using two 24in. sections and only pack the bottom section so that if I were to use the cross tube style it wouldn't interfere with the removal of what ever packing I were to use, I would be sure to install a perforated disc at the bottom so that copper packing wouldn't end up in the pot. I like the idea of using a tri clamp connection about ten inches from the very top so that the whole middle column could be removed and the top section be reinstalled right above the boiler and end result I would end up with a pot still . I am leading towards the cross tubes and a 2in.column with a 15gal. beer keg for a boiler. plasma cut the top out and weld a 8in. ferrul for east clean out .
once again thanks for all the tips. If there are any holes in my ideas please feel free to knock it apart. I'm all ears

[fizzix]

Ah, that clears it up. Since you're building, check out the CCVM style too.
Very popular choice here at HD and for good reasons.

[Reverend Newer]

I can say that the mile hi jacketed reflux design works very well, so glad I got the dual purpose pot/reflux version rather than just the pot still head alone.

Easy as hell to buy a stick of 2" copper, hammer yer own EZ flanges, add a couple 90 degree elbows and a 2" shotgun, you'd set and likely cheaper and more useful than their commercial towers with liebig condensors in the end. Or add a T at the top and insert a cooling reflux coil, I really want to try the corrugated stainless gas line myself.

Glad to hear you're building yer own.

In the past, mile hi has been asked by the man to report on still head sales, another reason to build yer own I reckon.

Best of luck to ya.


Edit: Yes I purchased my first still, but ONLY because I was on my death bed and it was on my bucket list to make shine. I have since recovered and am constructing a 4" stripping still.

[Danespirit]

+1 on that CCVM

It's easier to build and to run compared to a CM style still.
You won't regret a modular build...for sure.
If you plan to use a 15 gal beer keg I'd advice against a 2" column.
As you got that keg you may as well scale the whole rig up and use a 3" column.
Seriously, a 3" column is much faster than a 2" er.
If it's modular build you'll have an excellent pot still head out of that tee with an endcap on top.

[kimbodious]

+1 for a modular build
+++1 for CCVM (I have run a CM and a VM as well, the CCVM is by far the easiest to operate)

[pynys pub]

Thanks all , a man can't get enough info. especially about his hobby
Cheers

[Manc]

As you got that keg you may as well scale the whole rig up and use a 3" column.
Seriously, a 3" column is much faster than a 2" er.
If it's modular build you'll have an excellent pot still head out of that tee with an endcap on top.

Hi I hope it's ok to ask a question about this on this thread if not please let me know

If I was to upgrade from a 2inch modular coloum to 3 inch how much of the old coloum could I still use without slowing down it is a cm with a flow through dephlegmator and and 450mm shot gun style pc

Thanks
Manc

[rubber duck]

I've gone back to the old Nixon Stone design. Do a search for it and you will find a lot of info. It's an offset lm design.

The ccvm would be good as well, I haven't actually used one but it looks like a solid rig and it's easy to build.

How much height do you have in your shop? If you don't have much doing something with a crossflow condenser would be fun.

[Swedish Pride]

As you got that keg you may as well scale the whole rig up and use a 3" column.
Seriously, a 3" column is much faster than a 2" er.
If it's modular build you'll have an excellent pot still head out of that tee with an endcap on top.

Hi I hope it's ok to ask a question about this on this thread if not please let me know

If I was to upgrade from a 2inch modular coloum to 3 inch how much of the old coloum could I still use without slowing down it is a cm with a flow through dephlegmator and and 450mm shot gun style pc

Thanks
Manc

just update the packed column, the PC and RC should be fine unless you had them small to begin with.
i run 3x 6" plates but only have a 3" RC and a plain old 3/4 over 1/2 liebig

[Manc]

Thanks Swedish

[pynys pub]

Ok I'm back with a whole bunch of new knowledge that justifies more Questions that I can't seem to locate the answers for. I am now seeing that a ccvm is grabbing my interest and I do get it about not having a cap on the column due to having to raise and lower the coil regarding on how much reflux you want but it is advised not to put a cap on the top of the column as you would basically be creating a bomb so I've read if you were to cap it off. But yet a pot still is caped off. So I got to think some vapours are making there way out the top. Lets say no vapours are making their way out the top off the column and the vapours are coming up the column , making their way into the take off tube, what's to say that isn't creating a vacuum drawing atmospheric air in through the top of the column ?

[still_stirrin]

Lets say no vapours are making their way out the top off the column and the vapours are coming up the column, making their way into the take off tube, what's to say that isn't creating a vacuum drawing atmospheric air in through the top of the column?

OK, so what if there is air sucked into the top of the column? Not much of it (air) will actually condense into your product at the temperatures your RC is operating at.

But, the RC should condense all of the hot alcohol vapors back towards your product takeoff. That's the design intent.

You indeed need to read and read. Your questions are fundamental to the whole distillation process.
ss

[rubber duck]

You are getting way lost in the weeds man. Every still is or should be open to the atmosphere other then a vacuum still, don't look up vacuum stills please.

Pot stills are not capped off, the vapor can escape vie the libig, or worm, or shotgun or whatever product condenser your using.

There is vacuum in a still after you cut the power off, as long as the power is on your pushing vapor up. when the power is cut off or you do get vacuum ive seen this happen with small scale thump jars made from glass, I don't suggest using glass for a thumper but its cool to see.

The best advice I can give you is step back a little and start with the fundamentals. I would start with a simple pot still made from a beer keg, i would make a simple mash like a something from the tried and true section. Once you have done a run or two on a simple pot still you will have a better grasp on the direction you want to go and how to get there.