Cuts : Is that fores, or is this? Same with heads.

[Cletus_Spuckler]

I have a couple of stupid questions regarding cuts (a lots been written on this I know, as I've read heaps of it ). Ive just run my new still for its first proper spirit run and am currently staring at 35-40 jars of clear liquid, split into five cuts. This may sound odd, but I am unsure what two of the cuts are called, so hopefully someone can chime in to set the story straight for me. Specifically, is fores just (see below) Cut 1 or is it also Cut 2; or is Cut 2 actually heads? Is Cut 3 heads or actually early hearts?

Cut 1: (definitely fores right?)
The first drips of very strongly sweet smelling liquid (acetone I believe), that was all discarded during stripping runs during heat up as the boiler passes the 55oC mark.

Cut 2: (is this also fores, or actually heads?)
Is the first jar or so to be produced after the still has equalised. Very easy to distinguish by its STRONG sweet ester smell. In a reflux still, has a vapor temp of around 77oC.

Cut 3: (heads or early hearts?)
Only has the slight sweet smell of Cut 2, and is hard to know where this becomes middle hearts.

Middle hearts and tails (Cuts 4 and 5) are easy enough to identify with my still, so no clarification need there. I think I did a very good job of compressing tails and whatever Cut 2 is, as they are small and strong smelling.

Bonus kudos to anyone who can say what compounds are typically contained (for a sugar wash) in Cuts 2 and 3.

CS

----
Fun facts:
Spirit run contained 40l x 32% abv stripped birdwatchers
Sodium carbonate (1 teaspoon p/liter of low wines) was added to the boiler just prior to running (to do the esters, acid and alcohol reconversion)
Ran most of the run with a power setting around 1kw (240VAC) with a take off rate of 1.0 - 1.5 litres p/hour
Cut 2 was 96.2% abv & 5% of total product; - Cut 3 was 95.9% abv & 5% of total product; - Cut 4 was 95.4% abv & 15% of total product
The still is a 1.5m x 4" packed column on top of a single perf plate.
Ive read some of the great essential reading posts on the topic from kiwi and others

[Cletus_Spuckler]

EDIT:
Cut 2 was 96.2% abv & 5% of total product; - Cut 3 was 95.9% abv & 15% of total product; - Cut 4 was 95.4% abv & 75% of total product

[OtisT]

Just my opinion based on my process.

Looking at it as 5 cuts, 6 or #, It don’t matter. Just so long and you find the good stuff in the middle, only the one middle cut matters (with rare exception). For me, the first jar would be classified as Fores. Even if I take fores during a strip, the first jar off of my still on the spirit run is still discarded. Don’t really matter if it’s fores or heads, it is not drinkable and goes bye-bye.

I would add (diluted) taste to your cut process, and not just rely on smell. This has helped improve my drinkable cuts a lot. You would want to document both smell and taste notes for your jars so you can see the relationship between the two. With a recipe I know well and have done cuts on it several times, I can then make cuts by smell alone, though I still taste because I enjoy the process.

Working from hearts out to heads, I can smell heads come first, and I like that sweet fruity smell. Sometimes floral comes before or with the light fruit. One time, I got a very distinct Rose smell between floral and fruit and I felt like I caught a chubakabra. At some point the smell works into a stronger juicy fruit smell ( like the old Juicy Fruit gum) and that is what I consider pure heads and that is definately out for me. From a taste perspective, there is a sharp Bite that hits the toung and lingers there, and that tells me that jar is definitely out of any cut. That bite usually happens just before the juicy fruit smell.

Same process on the tails side, but the taste I look to avoid is a bitter taste that lingers. I smell tails well before that bitter taste. Both smell and bitter taste happen before the oil/cloudiness is seen.

Whether I keep any of the fruity smelling hearts/heads transition or keep any of the tails smelling hearts/tails transition ( and how deep I go into these transitions) depends on what I’m making and how I’m aging it.

Hope this is helpful. Good luck. Otis.

[Cletus_Spuckler]

Thanks Otiis,

Sounds like my cut 2 is fores then. Ill keep those for cleaning solvents.
Ill chuck heads in a big SS feints container for either sacrificial runs or for potentially trying to squeeze some more EToH out of them one day.

Kind of brings me to my other question; anyone know what chemicals are in fores and also heads? I have seen some analysis and info around about this somewhere (all I could find was the Fusel Oil Lab Analysis Results # 1 post).

CS

[fizzix]

My dumbed down notes say predominantly methanol and acetone in fores.
Heads are primarily ethanol, but with trailing traces of fores chemicals.

[still_stirrin]

Cletus,

Jars 1 & 2 are likely foreshots and some very early heads. Jar 3 is most probably judged as heads, where the ethyl acetate is combined with some of your ethanol. What you’ve selected as the hearts are obviously that. Often the aroma is more subdued, with much less of the fruity smell of the acetates.

Also note, when tasting the late foreshots and early heads will have a solventy taste and most likely have a “hot” or “burning” sensation on your tongue. It is the solvent chemicals present that do that.

Ethanol, especially high proof ethanol, will have very little flavor or tast sensation because it will simply numb your taste buds. So, be very careful with it. Also, I’ve found a subtle “sweetness” in the clean ethanol, especially if derived from a corn base.

As suggested, when deciding where the cuts are, start sampling in the middle of the collection of jars (you’ve numbered them, right?). Then work your way down from there first. If you work up first, you’ll spoil your senses with the shart tastes and aroma, so work down from the mid-point first to find your tails cutoff. Then come back and work upward. Drink water between samples to clear your palette as well as neutralizing the liquor in your system.

Here’s a quick look at the typical constituents in a wash and their respective boiling points. You’ll see that the higher volatile constituents are common in the foreshots and heads.

Boil Temps of Constituents
Acetone 56.5C 133.7F <— common in heads and foreshots
Methanol 64C 147.2F
Ethyl acetate 77.1C 170.8F <— common in heads
Ethanol 78C 172.4F
2-Propanol 82C 179.6F <— often present in tails
1-Propanol 97C 206.6F
Water 100C 212F
Isobutanol 107.9C. 226.2F
Butanol 116C 240.8F
2-methyl-1-butanol 128.7C 263.7F
Isopentanol 131.1C. 269.1F
Amyl alcohol 137.8 C 280F
Furfural 161C. 321.8F

Keep practicing your cuts. Experience will make this much easier to discern. And remember, different ferments produce different types and amounts of these common constituents. So, “one size fits all” does not apply. Pay attention to the ferment and you can maximize the good and minimize the bad.

Good luck
ss

[Cletus_Spuckler]

Thanks SS; this is exactly the type of detailed information Ive been looking for (let me guess, its on the parent site right? ). I think a lot of people use the term fores and heads loosely without really knowing what they are or what the difference is. Im going to keep referring back to this until it sinks in.

CS