> So how do I legally distill at home using a rotary evaporator, or is this incredible difficult or impossible because HMRC will not provide a license?
The best answer will come from someone at Sacred Gin. No disrespect intended to the membership here but the responses, to such a specific question, will likely be only guesses.
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I drank fifty pounds of feed-store corn
'till my clothes were ratty and torn
Many (many) bottles of colored spirit scattered around the room for a product (gin) which is traditionally clear...something doesn’t jive with that, unless they’re making a whiskey. And then, if NEVER comes off still colored. I guess there must be some in the market place who would believe it possible to make colored spirit right out of the still.
And then, that room full of fancy lab glasswork....with the T500 smiling in the background. What’s the need for the “essence-producing” distiller on the table? I guess they could be making a gin essence (hydrosol) and adding that back to the neutral from the T500 to produce their gins. But there really isn’t anything special about that, is there?
And what’t this talk of a “rotary dehydrator”? It sounds like more marketing mumbo-jumbo (blather) that can impress the uneducated....and make the more experience audience laugh. Ha! I need a good laugh every once in a while.
So, I really question what is so “sacred” about this Sacred gin....”smoke & mirrors”?
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greggn wrote:The best answer will come from someone at Sacred Gin. No disrespect intended to the membership here but the responses, to such a specific question, will likely be only guesses.
I had the same thought. I've emailed them, but I'm not sure if they will reply.
Not all Gins are clear, this one is doing very well in markets across the world ATM, Made just up the road a bit from me. https://www.inkgin.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow It turns from an blue ink colour to pink when Tonic water is added due to the change in acidity. Yes another marketing ploy ,but one that is working very well for them.
I to suspect the Sacred Gin photo is a mock up for their marketing scam.
Not sure where but Ive seen those rotary evaporators used in gin making before, from memory to make essences to add to Neutral.
Edit.
Remembered where Id seen and heard of one before, Bushman mentioned going to a distillery that used them to make a grapefruit infused Vodka.
Maybe he will pipe up with more information.
My thoughts are to make flavored spirits without needing to heat the fruit or whatever to temperatures that would alter the original fresh taste. I have only ran it several times with junk feints just to get a feel for it and clean it up. I could distill at 140 degrees Fahrenheit but should be able to get that temp down with higher abv hearts. At the hobby home scale I would say the cost of acquiring a rotary evaporator and the needed accessories would be cost prohibitive. I looked and looked a long time before I got something reasonable and then had to get all the glass, a vacuum pump, regulation equipment, etc. I wish I could report results on a finished product but I'm not there yet. YMMV
Last edited by WIski on Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:29 am, edited 3 times in total.
Expat wrote:The butterfly pea flower creates the purple/blue color transformation
Expat wrote: "Empress 1908". I've been experimenting with the same.
I found and bought some Butterfly Pea not long back to Expat. Had a bit of a play around with it and have it working as it should.
When I have the time to make a bigger batch of gin to experiment with I might post up a few photos.
WIski wrote:At the hobby home scale I would say the cost of acquiring a rotary evaporator and the needed accessories would be cost prohibitive.
Agreed. I know a decent rotary evaporator will cost over £3000 / $4000.
As I said, this is at the research stage to see how viable it is to produce gin for commercial sale, without going to the full expense of acquiring premises and fitting them out, which would be considerably more than buying the evaporator.
If it does not work out, I sell the evaporator on eBay and recoup as much as I can.
This is not something I am rushing - it could be 2 years before I can legally produce and sell gin.
Would it be easier - at the research stage - if I use base alcohol which already has the duty paid on it? So I apply for a rectifier's licence?
I don't know the rules in chumland but in Oz there are a number of "distilleries that buy in bulk grape spirit for guns and flavoured vodkas. I can't remember exactly how the law works on this but this is fortifying spirit taxed completely different to normal spirits and if sold under a given ABV then taxed as a fortified wine/liqueur ( much less than spirits) as I recall. The license side of things I suspect would be far simpler than a distillers license. That said bulk spirit is generally not amazingly well fractioned and redistilling with some better cuts would be a vast improvement not that rectifying is the only way to ameliorate that particular problem. I don't know if England has the same deal but I would not be surprised.
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.Benjamin Franklin
Saltbush Bill wrote:
When I have the time to make a bigger batch of gin to experiment with I might post up a few photos.
I look forward to seeing your results! I got some good color but not as dark as I had wanted. My friends enjoyed all of it before I took any photos, waiting on more flowers to be delivered.
I have researched the HMRC rules in UK : _ Basically to be a licenced distiller you need to run a still of MINIMUM capacity 400 Gallons (Imperial)
That kills it stone dead for most of us !
Now there are a number of places which sell "Liqueurs" - In fact I make "sloe gin" which is basicaly ANY "white spirit" infused with sloe berries. The base spirit doesn't matter at all ! the sloes kill any "complexity"
These boys are clearly very young and whilst I can accept that some of the grandsons of experienced members may be able to make a valid contribution, what seems to be happening here is a couple of "chemistry students" are buying in "spirit" and flavouring it ! (look at their "WHisky" in their website) - no direct - tho' an "Implied" claim they are doing the distil at all !
HMRC will be VERY interested in the Total ethanol coming out of their "process" against the total they are buying in + somewere around perhaps 15% "wastage"
Glass "twiddly bits" & a T500 sitting there (5 Gallons - totally irrelevant to HMRC )
Pikey wrote:I have researched the HMRC rules in UK : _ Basically to be a licenced distiller you need to run a still of MINIMUM capacity 400 Gallons (Imperial)
You are referring to this rule:
For the manufacture of spirits using a still with a capacity of less than 18 hectolitres (read paragraph 2.10) we’ll always require a business plan to assure us that the production is commercial in nature.
18 hectolitres = 1800 litres = approx 400 gallons
Most gin producters do not run a still of that size.
Homebrew wrote:Most gin producters do not run a still of that size.
Maybe not for the actual gin run with botanicals, but producing the spirit for that run and for diluting it later requires a much larger still or a supplier of quality neutral.
Pikey wrote:I have researched the HMRC rules in UK : _ Basically to be a licenced distiller you need to run a still of MINIMUM capacity 400 Gallons (Imperial)
You are referring to this rule:
For the manufacture of spirits using a still with a capacity of less than 18 hectolitres (read paragraph 2.10) we’ll always require a business plan to assure us that the production is commercial in nature.
18 hectolitres = 1800 litres = approx 400 gallons
Most gin producters do not run a still of that size.
Never seen that observation before - perhaps it's something they brought in to capitalise on the "Gin craze" atm. What's the date on that Regulation ?
Didn't realise you wanted to go "Commercial" - but I'd think an accountant should be consulted - by the time you get the Commercial property Rates and insurances sorted, a "Business plan" would be expected to show a full time income I expect.
On a "Back of a fag packet" calculation, most of us simply couldn't produce a "wage" off our hobby, so we choose the "Don't sell" mantra and observe it verystrictly.
Didn't realise you wanted to go "Commercial" - but I'd think an accountant should be consulted - by the time you get the Commercial property Rates and insurances sorted, a "Business plan" would be expected to show a full time income I expect.
It’ll take “deep pockets” undoubtedly. But Her Majesty’s accountants will welcome any & all additional revenue streams. You’ve just got to be prepared for the accompanying “oversight” and involvement.
For you Homebrew, I would suggest putting some labor into one of the currently working distilleries there in the UK. Get yourself a working man’s knowledge of all that’s involved...including the taxman’s questions. With a screen name like “homebrew”, it’s obvious of your interest in expanding a hobby into an income, but your line of questions highlights your inexperience. Go to one of the businesses and start there (if you’re really that interested).
There is lots of experience here on the HD site. But now it’s time for you to get some for yourself.
ss
YMMV
