Apple Cider in Mash

[Bubba56]

I've had pretty good luck using UJSSM recipe for a while, but wanting to try something different. I am thinking of using fresh unprocessed apple cider, along with some frozen grape concentrate and a few pounds of sugar to raise ABV. After reading about some fruit washes I am unsure a few things.

1st: will the cider need to be heated enough to kill any natural yeasts?

2nd: Will the ph of the wash need to be monitored?

Thank for any input or direction as where to look for the answers

[still_stirrin]

I've had pretty good luck using UJSSM recipe for a while, but wanting to try something different. I am thinking of using fresh unprocessed apple cider, along with some frozen grape concentrate and a few pounds of sugar to raise ABV. After reading about some fruit washes I am unsure a few things.

1st: will the cider need to be heated enough to kill any natural yeasts? <-- Don't think you need to worry about wild yeast if you pitch a healthy starter yeast. It'll "grab" the ferment before wild stuff can.

2nd: Will the ph of the wash need to be monitored? <-- I would add some calcium carbonate at the start to buffer the (potential) pH crash.

Thank for any input or direction as where to look for the answers

[Oldvine Zin]

I've had pretty good luck using UJSSM recipe for a while, but wanting to try something different. I am thinking of using fresh unprocessed apple cider, along with some frozen grape concentrate and a few pounds of sugar to raise ABV. After reading about some fruit washes I am unsure a few things.

1st: will the cider need to be heated enough to kill any natural yeasts?

2nd: Will the ph of the wash need to be monitored?

Thank for any input or direction as where to look for the answers

how high do you want to go?? Remember the higher the (sugar/ ABV) the harder the yeast have to work. My best drink was made from yeast that was not stressed

OVZ

[NZChris]

Why that mix?

Do you like drinking hard cider and wine mixed together? If you do and you like it, go for it, but bare in mind that sugar only adds alcohol and volume, so dilutes flavor.

If you are emptying the pantry or the jail house kitchen, just do it and be happy with whatever you get.

[cranky]

I'm with Chris on that.

My recommendation is sweet cider, 1118 yeast and time. Nothing else.

[DetroitDIY]

As Still Stirrin said, the wild yeast will be less prevalent than your existing colony and likely a weaker strain than a cultivated one you started with, so it should get knocked out. But even if it has some teeth, that should just provide a bit more complexity and other esters in your wash. Some folks deliberately like to add different yeast strains with increasing alcohol tolerances that they add over time for just this reason.

[DetroitDIY]

Alternatively, if you're still worried about a wild strain interloper, you could just add a bit of Camden tablet or equivalent to your fresh apple must before you pitch it.

[jonnys_spirit]

I’ve used apple juice/cider instead of water to mash some barley. Best friggin smell in the world and makes a fine drop too!

Cheers,
jonny

[NZChris]

Alternatively, if you're still worried about a wild strain interloper, you could just add a bit of Camden tablet or equivalent to your fresh apple must before you pitch it.

Campden should be avoided for distilling as it is difficult to keep the stink of the sulfur out of your final product.

[cranky]

Yeast absolutely love fresh pressed unprocessed apple juice. Leave plenty of head space. In a 5 gallon carboy I only add 4 gallons of juice because it is going to foam up. As long as it is under airlock I've seldom had a problem with apple ferments. If you absolutely feel the need to pasteurize many apple cider producers heat the juice rapidly to 170f, no higher, hold it there for only a few seconds then rapidly cool it back down. Heat equals loss of flavor. Sugar equals loss of flavor. If I get really sloppy with my process and know it is going to be a year or more before I am going to run it I will sometimes pasteurize but if I am going to run it within 4 months I don't bother, . If you pasteurize you don't have to leave as much head space because it won't foam up quite as much.

Keep compden tablets away from it.

[DetroitDIY]

Thanks for the heads up NZ & Cranky. I've done a lot of ciders, but never distilled one. I'll make sure to avoid the Camden / sulfite when I do.

[Bubba56]

Thanks for the input guys.... Lots of helpful information.

I'm only planning to add enough sugar to get it around 8%, but not sure what abv the cider will be with the frozen juice concentrate added. I plan to make several heads cuts to try and maximize the amount of flavor that I can recover.

I'm going to get it started once this batch of UJSSM finishes so I'll post on my progress.

[Bubba56]

It’s been a while, but had some family matters to tend to. Got to put a batch together tonight using fresh apple cider and frozen apple concentrate, added 2# of granulated sugar to raise the abv slightly. Starting abv is 1.070 and started to bubble in the airlock within 30 minutes. I’ll let you know how it progresses.

[hellbilly007]

I haven't any experience with Apple brandy but from what I've read, by those experienced with it, most of flavor will be in the heads. So it would be advisable to collect in small jars, giving you the ability to add some of the late heads to your blend.

As far as bumping up the gravity, your Apple juice concentrate should be the only additive.

[Bubba56]

Made several heads cuts and got a good amount of hearts. It even had a sweet taste and smooth into the tails.

Blended together and diluted to 50%, now trying to decide whether to age with oak or not.