This is the worst dam run of likker I'll ever do!

[tjans]

Heh heh, so I tried my hand today at my first ever real non-cleaning run, a stripping run of a batch of beer I brewed that I wasn't fond of. It was an epic fail to say the least. It started off immediately with a problem as the small pump I had was pumping water into the condenser pot faster than it could drain, so I plugged the drain and was manually trying to top off water as it got too warm.

Everything was moderately ok, I started to collect distillate, but after I got about 100ml collected, steam started shooting out of my pot (there are clamps on the lid to keep it tight. I quickly moved one of the clamps and then another spot opened up, which I tried to reclamp and got a steam burn on my hand. Then, a small fire started on my propane burner so I quickly shut that off. We did not have these problems during our cleaning run where we ran some cheap wine through it.

I'm going to guess I had the heat too high, the beer foamed up, or the copper scrubbies the previous owner of the still had shoved up there was restricting airflow and the pressure let out the sides instead.

I'm hoping to recollect myself and try again, maybe without the scrubbies in the column, less liquid in the pot, and somehow find a way to recirculate water into my condenser pot, perhaps with a valve of some sort that I can regulate the speed of the pump.

Until next time, and burned but determined,
The novice distiller.

[NZChris]

If you ever get a vapor leak, turn the heat off immediately. The natural instinct is to try to fix the leak, but a leak is nearly always a symptom of some type of restriction or blockage causing pressure in the still and if you do manage to 'fix' it, you might make the 6 o'clock news.

[tjans]

Good idea. I wonder if the scrubbies he has in the column blocked the flow.

[StillerBoy]

Lots to learn...

Ice or ice water (soaking) the burn until it does not burn.. then apply oil olive.. will healing over night if done right away.. ever third degree burn heal over night..

Mars

[tjans]

Lots to learn indeed. The burn is fine. I'm gonna correct some things and run it again tomorrow n

Lots to learn...

Ice or ice water (soaking) the burn until it does not burn.. then apply oil olive.. will healing over night if done right away.. ever third degree burn heal over night..

Mars

[still_stirrin]

Take the scubbies out of the riser...they do more harm than good.

If your flake heats up faster than you can cool it, you probably need a bigger flake. Regardless, the pump flow doesn’t need to be fast if the reservoir is big enough. If your water is warming too fast, chances are the flake is too small.

So, if you’re going to attempt it again tomorrow, I hope you’ve made changes to your process, or you’ll have the same experience again.
ss

[tjans]

Of course. I'll be removing the scrubbies and running a valve on my inlwt to the condenser to keep water recirculating. I also forgot to latch the latches on side of pot. They aren't very tight but they help. Im confident this next run will be better.

[tjans]

Since I know you're all probably curious if I blew myself up or not, I figured I'd report back on my second attempt. Things went a LOT better this time. I started off with another steam leak and that's when I magically started to learn the effect of heat on pressure. My pot had crept up to around 205 which isn't necessarily a bad temperature, but the heat was so high that it started blowing steam, and I had a bit of a puke on the first jar. I started playing with the flame and and learned that I could keep it at a good temperature with lower heat and thus the pressure in my still was enough to force liquid out, but not so much that the pot couldn't contain it. I learned this as I turned off the heat completely, and it stopped running. Turning the heat on again but ever so lightly, almost to where the flame would die, I noticed created just enough pressure to push through more distillate. I always knew heat created pressure, but I just didn't know how much of an effect it had. I was never able to get my temps to come back down below 200 even with super low heat, so I'll have to watch my temperature gauge a lot closer when I do the spirit run so I don't get too high and mess up the cuts.

It ran close to 205 for the length of the stripping run and I got just under a gallon of distillate which I know is low for a 6 gallon 5.25% beer, but I had trouble determining what ABV I was running at, so i just collected as much as I could by testing each jar with my alcomter and quit at a certain point. My brother is making us a parrot, so I'm sure that will help on stripping runs.

[NZChris]

Are you using the thumper?

The thermometer is in a place that is useless for running a still. The only useful thing it can tell you is when it is pressurized, (when the temperature is higher than it should be for the boiling point of the charge). Other than watching it for over-pressure, you should not make decisions based on that thermometer.

Unless you have a obstruction, your pressure problem might be because the condenser tubing is too small. You should be able to blow through the condenser and riser feeling little resistance. For an 8 gallon still it should be at least 1/2" tube. If it is already 1/2", consider getting a smaller burner that is easier to control at the lower heat.

You shouldn't make running decisions based on a parrot reading unless you have a lot of runs under your belt and have records that tell you what to expect. The important abv when stripping is the abv of the total collection, so shutting down at an abv at the spout, (or a thermometer reading), can have you throwing out good flavor and alcohol with the backset.

I strip into single vessel large enough to take the whole run and float the alcometer in that, running to abvs I researched from commercial distillers, or to 40% for neutrals.

[tjans]

I'm not using the thumper. However I believe the pressure issue I was having was because I was running it way too hot. The burner I am using is a really good burner that I use for my homebrewing and I can control the temperature I just had it cranked way too high. Once I got a feel for how high I should have it everything was good. However right now I'm not good enough to make cuts based off of smell and taste so I was hoping to be able to go by temperature as a good gauge knowing full well that this is not the best way to do it. As a beginner I need to learn more before I can do things off of feel.

[tjans]

Also, good to know that the total collection ABV is the most important part of the strip. Everything I had read said take it down to 20% but I thought that meant of the distillate you're collecting not of the entire batch.

[Saltbush Bill]

However right now I'm not good enough to make cuts based off of smell and taste so I was hoping to be able to go by temperature as a good gauge knowing full well that this is not the best way to do it.

It just wont happen that way, You can only get better at it if you start smelling and tasting now, the sooner you start the sooner you will be able to make cuts. Forget the thermometer.

[NZChris]

Cuts don't require temperatures or a parrot either. See Kiwistiller's guide to cuts. viewtopic.php?f=46&t=13261

A couple of things you should know about your still.
Copper in the boiler and vapor path cleans up stinky sulfides, but yours hasn't got either unless you do something about it. Despite the many forum posts telling you that putting copper in the vapor path will fix that, research says that copper is also beneficial in the boiler for stripping and spirit runs. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 0450.x/pdf

Unless the thermometer probe goes right down into the charge, which I doubt, it is placed in about the worst area possible, making it useless for anything except an over-pressure warning. In the head space there are variables that affect the temperature's relationship to the output abv, making a trap for newbies who have been told they can use the thermometer for running the still.

[tjans]

Thanks for the help guys. I have a long road ahead of me.

PS. So I get that I can't use temperature for making cuts, but how then do you know what boiling temp you're at and what's actually coming out of the still. I know that it needs to be by feel and taste and smell, but you still need to know roughly where you're at right? Can you use the thermometer as a very rough idea of whether you're at around 145 vs. Say 170 or so or is there a better way to run the whole still?? I've seen so many different guides say that you should hold it around different temperatures for various lengths of time to get the right cut.

I'll read up on kiwis guide in the meantime.

Cuts don't require temperatures or a parrot either. See Kiwistiller's guide to cuts. viewtopic.php?f=46&t=13261

A couple of things you should know about your still.
Copper in the boiler and vapor path cleans up stinky sulfides, but yours hasn't got either unless you do something about it. Despite the many forum posts telling you that putting copper in the vapor path will fix that, research says that copper is also beneficial in the boiler for stripping and spirit runs. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 0450.x/pdf

Unless the thermometer probe goes right down into the charge, which I doubt, it is placed in about the worst area possible, making it useless for anything except an over-pressure warning. In the head space there are variables that affect the temperature's relationship to the output abv, making a trap for newbies who have been told they can use the thermometer for running the still.

[still_stirrin]

...I have a long road ahead of me...how then do you know what boiling temp you're at and what's actually coming out of the still...?

Well, if it IS boiling, do you really need to know the temperature it is boiling at as long as SOMETHING is coming out of the still? Can’t you collect in small jars and simply measure the proof of the collected spirit? And then, after airing for 24 hours, can’t you evaluate “where the cuts” should be made according to the smell and taste?

All this is entirely possible without knowing the temperature in your still. But, you’ve got to learn the differences in the taste and smell of the spirit through the different fractions and the best way to learn that is EXPERIENCE. You won’t learn it by watching a video either.

...I know that it needs to be by feel and taste and smell, but you still need to know roughly where you're at right? Can you use the thermometer as a very rough idea of whether you're at around 145 vs. Say 170 or so or is there a better way to run the whole still?? I've seen so many different guides say that you should hold it around different temperatures for various lengths of time to get the right cut.

Again....practice, practice, practice. And taking notes during your sampling and cuts selection process willhelp hone your “cut making” skills. The notes will provide you a feedback loop so you can converge on the best solution.

You’ve just got to “get in there” and do it! And if you learn by using a “crutch”, you’ll only know how to do it with a crutch. Get with it.
ss

[MoonBreath]

Yessir, slow down a bit and develope your senses.
I like to say six senses, sight, smell, touch, sound, taste, and the most important Common.
Once you hone those into your methods, you'll be fine.
You need to be good at not using thermometers before you use them.
You need to be good at not using parrots before using them.
Think safe, be patient, possibly upgrade your equipment for reliability.

[NZChris]

I've seen so many different guides say that you should hold it around different temperatures for various lengths of time to get the right cut.

You have to stop getting your info from people who haven't got a clue how to run a still. The sort of advice you just quoted comes from newbies who don't understand the basic physics of distilling and are just parroting what they've heard from someone else who also knows SFA, and so on, ad infinitum.

[Saltbush Bill]

I've seen so many different guides say that you should hold it around different temperatures for various lengths of time to get the right cut.

My guess is you didn't read any of them here.
You can not control the temperature of a boiler or the temp that your wash boils at.

[tjans]

I did not. I had this same problem with homebrewing, lots of myths and bs out there, and it's overwhelming for newbs to get their foot in the door so please go easy on me, I'm just trying to learn. I eventually got pretty good at brewing and I know it's a journey and I won't know everything right away.

So, let's reset. The different parts of the wash boil off at different temperatures, right? So, if you can't control the temperature of your boiler (which I thought adding more or less heat would increase the temp and pressure and make the wash climb faster or slower in temperature) you clearly have to make your cuts as the temperature rises.

So, are we basically saying for a spirit run, you basically set your boiler to a good flame and let the temperature climb making cuts as it rises? I'm in front of a computer now, so I'm gonna go check out Kiwi's guide.

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

I run 3 different types of stills, and have never owned a thermometer.

Temperature doesn't matter, becuase you can't control it. Ever try to boil water at anything but 212? You can make it boil at a simmer, or make it boil at a rapid. But the mixture is still boiling at 212.

Same thing as liquor. There are a hundred compounds in the mixture you are boiling, but the temp is fixed. You can only decide a simmer or rapid. Then collect and determine after if it is keeps and what is trash.

When 175 is done boiling, 176 will start. Regardless of what you do. Youy can choose to take off fast or slow. That's it. My vodka comes off at 193, from the first drop to the last.

All you need to do is run slow, collect small, and tell me if you like to drink it or not. The rest is unnecessary.

[6 Row Joe]

I did not. I had this same problem with homebrewing, lots of myths and bs out there, and it's overwhelming for newbs to get their foot in the door so please go easy on me, I'm just trying to learn. I eventually got pretty good at brewing and I know it's a journey and I won't know everything right away.

So, let's reset. The different parts of the wash boil off at different temperatures, right? So, if you can't control the temperature of your boiler (which I thought adding more or less heat would increase the temp and pressure and make the wash climb faster or slower in temperature) you clearly have to make your cuts as the temperature rises.

So, are we basically saying for a spirit run, you basically set your boiler to a good flame and let the temperature climb making cuts as it rises? I'm in front of a computer now, so I'm gonna go check out Kiwi's guide.

Water boils at 212° but starts producing steam at around 150° . I have a thermometer in my column but I don't use it to make cuts. I catch a dribble on my fingertip and smell and taste. Don't use the thermometer or hydrometer along with a temp chart from a book or the internet to make your cuts. You need to run the flame low and the run slow. I am talking spirit runs. You can do stripping runs fast but with a lot of heat you may get scorching so watch that.

[NZChris]

You can do stripping runs fast but with a lot of heat you may get scorching so watch that.

Maintaining a rolling boil should prevent scorching unless you do something else wrong.

Running dry will scorch.
Running with starch, sugars, etc. in the charge may scorch.
Shutting down a distillation that has solids in it, then restarting will scorch.

[tjans]

Just to show how my brain was thinking about this...methanol boils at around 145 and you start getting ethanol in 170s, I thought that if you blew past 145 to 170+, you'd be getting both methanol and ethanol instead of separating the two. Sounds like I had that whole idea wrong.

I'll run it low and slow this next time and start separating in smaller cuts to learn more about the flavor and smell differences.

[NZChris]

Also, there are a heap of people who reckon you can make decent likker in a single pass through a pot still. They just don't know any better. I count myself lucky that the internet didn't exist when I started out, so I had to do my research in university libraries without the distraction of youtube and forums.

Don't get me wrong. Forums are a great place to find new directions, but don't expect that every post is gospel truth.

[6 Row Joe]

You can do stripping runs fast but with a lot of heat you may get scorching so watch that.

Maintaining a rolling boil should prevent scorching unless you do something else wrong.

Running dry will scorch.
Running with starch, sugars, etc. in the charge may scorch.
Shutting down a distillation that has solids in it, then restarting will scorch.

Thanks for clarifying. I didn't get into much detail.

[tjans]

a quick update. Today we did our first Spirit run ever. I ran the boiler as slow as my flame would go without it shutting off on my blichmann top tier burner. It took us about four and a half hours and we ended up with about 3 quarts distillate after blending, tossing the heads and foreshots etc. I'm moderately happy with that yield although I did expect a little more considering it was a stripped five gallon sugar wash and another batch of beer that I had stripped. We ended up with 90 proof and it tastes pretty darn good.

I did not detect much tails in the mixture so we kept a lot of it in the blend. that is either due to the fact that I didn't distilling enough or I didn't taste the difference much but it wasn't bad tasting, just weaker.

Clearly I have a lot to learn about cuts but we took very small portions so that we can taste the difference as we went down the line.

[tjans]

PS thanks for all the tips about temperature and how to run the still. I definitely would have over thought the whole thing that I've been looking for temperatures. it was much easier and relaxing to run it at a very slow pace and collect consistently as the still ran. Hopefully I can improve the yield next time as well as the ability to make better cuts. 90 proof seems to be the upper end of what I can get with this still

[nerdybrewer]

I have to admit that I only read the first and then the last two posts!!!
That being said it is extremely indicative and descriptive, like at first just going balls to the wall with shit coming out everywhere and the last like "chill, just run low and slow brutha!!".
Love it!!

[Saltbush Bill]

I did not detect much tails in the mixture

that is either due to the fact that I didn't distilling enough or I didn't taste the difference much

All booze , all runs and all types of stills do produce tails .....its an unavoidable part of distilling.
Over time and by talking to other distillers face to face Ive come to the conclusion that a lot of us smell and taste things differently.
Some go by smell, others do better with their sense of taste.
If you don't taste it, smell it , diluting roughly 50-50 with water ..what ever the abv , that will bring out smells and tastes that you couldn't detect from the straight spirit.
To me tails has a musty, wet cardboard , old damp carpet, wet dog sort of smell. They taste to me musty and bitter.
A good friend who's a distiller disagrees and doesn't get the wet dog thing at all.....each to their own.
What is important is that you learn to make cuts , without them you will never make good booze, what those cuts are and how you make them only has to please you and your family / friends.
Something to try ....dip a couple of fingers into a jar from the middle of the run .....rub those fingers hard on the palm of the other hand ..keep rubbing and smelling at the same time. Rub and smell until you think the spirit is all gone. Now try the same with the last jar from the run, for me that brings out tails even if there is only a small amount of them.