How to remove off-flavours when distilling from wine

Other discussions for folks new to the wonderful craft of home distilling.

Moderator: Site Moderator

User avatar
NZChris
Master of Distillation
Posts: 13062
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: How to remove off-flavours when distilling from wine

Post by NZChris »

copperkettle wrote:
NZChris wrote: Thanks for that. I'll try running a small batch.
Well I would like to know all about how you plan to do that! What kind of wine will you start with?
I'm macerating the botanicals in some white brandy from my 2017 vintage. They are table grapes and don't make nice wine, but they do make nice brandy and grappa. I've toned down the grapes a bit by adding a portion of neutral.
User avatar
thecroweater
retired
Posts: 6081
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:04 am
Location: Central Highlands Vic. Australia

Re: How to remove off-flavours when distilling from wine

Post by thecroweater »

I would not say a parrot is of little use and a fair bit more use than a thermometer. If you build a free standing one you will still see the flow rate in (which will be the same as the flow rate out :ewink: ) but you have the advantage of not introducing the parrot that is an obvious smear point until you are confident you have started hearts. The smearing is actually a bit over stated in any case but that said I personally see not need to measure fires and heads so that is how I run. I used one on my pot , reflux and plated column where I find the data invaluable in telling me how to run my stills for a given result.
Attachments
IMG_0585.JPG
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Benjamin Franklin
User avatar
NZChris
Master of Distillation
Posts: 13062
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: How to remove off-flavours when distilling from wine

Post by NZChris »

My brandy based gin turned out far better than I expected. It's very nice straight at 45% and makes a very nice G&T on a hot summer day.

That's only my opinion. No one else has tried it yet.

Also, it isn't made out of my rejects. This white brandy is very nice on it's own, it's un-oaked because I like a tot of my young white brandy now and again.

2/3rds of the ethanol came from the brandy and 1/3rd from neutral. I probably won't change that ratio if I do this again.
copperkettle
Novice
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:05 am

Re: How to remove off-flavours when distilling from wine

Post by copperkettle »

That was quick!

What botanicals did you use? I suppose the gin still has a noticeable 'grape/brandy' character? Would you say it is any fuller or rounder in impact on the palate than a standard gin?
copperkettle
Novice
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:05 am

Re: How to remove off-flavours when distilling from wine

Post by copperkettle »

thecroweater wrote:I would not say a parrot is of little use and a fair bit more use than a thermometer. If you build a free standing one you will still see the flow rate in (which will be the same as the flow rate out :ewink: ) but you have the advantage of not introducing the parrot that is an obvious smear point until you are confident you have started hearts. The smearing is actually a bit over stated in any case but that said I personally see not need to measure fires and heads so that is how I run. I used one on my pot , reflux and plated column where I find the data invaluable in telling me how to run my stills for a given result.
Very helpful, thanks. A free-standing parrot sounds like a good idea.

I can see NZChris's point about watching the flow instead of the meters, but at this stage in my learning curve I need all the measurement I can get, not necessarily as gospel but as some kind of guide while I build up a feel for the process.
copperkettle
Novice
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:05 am

Re: How to remove off-flavours when distilling from wine

Post by copperkettle »

PS Croweater that's a mighty still! What did you use to insulate the boiler?
User avatar
NZChris
Master of Distillation
Posts: 13062
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: How to remove off-flavours when distilling from wine

Post by NZChris »

Apart from the botanicals I had to import, most of them were grown in my garden.

This still doesn't have a 'character', it is a mini still and it makes what I tell it to make. The previous run was a pot stilled brandy based Ouzo, it has successfully made Carter-Head Bombay Sapphire style gins, it makes very nice Absinthe, it makes essence, it answers my questions that Uncle Google can't answer.

I have no idea what a 'standard gin' is, but my friends tell me that mine is better than what they can buy.
User avatar
NZChris
Master of Distillation
Posts: 13062
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: How to remove off-flavours when distilling from wine

Post by NZChris »

copperkettle wrote:I can see NZChris's point about watching the flow instead of the meters, but at this stage in my learning curve I need all the measurement I can get, not necessarily as gospel but as some kind of guide while I build up a feel for the process.
You are fixing up a bad batch of wine so, hopefully, you will never have to repeat this process again, making temperatures and ABVs from this distillation irrelevant for future distillations. Also, because you are wanting to fix a fault that you can't describe well enough for one of us to know a definitive answer for, numbers from parrots and temperatures from random areas in other distiller's pots are likely to lead you to make mistakes.

I recommend you use Kiwistiller's guide to cuts. If you can't pick a heart cut yourself, get a friend to help you. I've had to do that several times.
User avatar
thecroweater
retired
Posts: 6081
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:04 am
Location: Central Highlands Vic. Australia

Re: How to remove off-flavours when distilling from wine

Post by thecroweater »

The only insulation is a brick hearth and some random bits of fibro cement to trade the heat in a bit, it works pretty well all things considered. On parrots : making cuts from proof is about as bad as making them from temp, unless every run and run conditions are identical forget that shit. Very often you will find with most stills a sweet spot with a given run and that sweet spot will be at a given ABV. Can ya still without that data? You betcha but these tools do make life easier.
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Benjamin Franklin
emptyglass
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1543
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:59 am
Location: Victoria, Australia.Usually the shed. Sometimes the cellar.

Re: How to remove off-flavours when distilling from wine

Post by emptyglass »

theres lots of uses for the word "taint"
You design it, I make it. Copper and Stainless. Down under. PM me.
The Baker
Master of Distillation
Posts: 4659
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:48 am
Location: Northern Victoria, Australia

Re: How to remove off-flavours when distilling from wine

Post by The Baker »

emptyglass wrote:theres lots of uses for the word "taint"
For a start it's the opposite of "tis".

Geoff
The Baker
metalsmith
Bootlegger
Posts: 147
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:15 pm

Re: How to remove off-flavours when distilling from wine

Post by metalsmith »

It appears your distillate is not salvageable except as weed killer. Spray it on your undesirable yard foliage and hope it kills them.
User avatar
cranky
Master of Distillation
Posts: 6506
Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:18 pm
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: How to remove off-flavours when distilling from wine

Post by cranky »

Personally I say carbon filter it and rerun it and see what you think. If it's still unsatisfactory try something else. You may never be happy with it but if you don't try something you will never know. We can speculate here til the end of time but you are the only one who can determine if it is good enough for you.
Fraser
Novice
Posts: 81
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:29 pm
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: How to remove off-flavours when distilling from wine

Post by Fraser »

I make my own gin base from wine. It makes a great base if you figure out a process that works for you.

Your best bet would be to strip it hot and fast through some copper mesh in the vapor path, cuts unnecessary IMO. Id' leave the lid off the low wines overnight to air out, covered to keep any bugs out. To clean it the rest of the way up you need to run it through a reflux column with plenty of copper plates, at least 8 (preferable 10) or at least 8-10 theoretical plates (YMMV). Filtering that through carbon should give you a fine neutral base for your gin. I don't need to carbon filter mine, but if you've got an extraordinarily manky wine to start with, you may need to use that.
Sator Square Distillery
DSP-PA-20063
User avatar
NZChris
Master of Distillation
Posts: 13062
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: How to remove off-flavours when distilling from wine

Post by NZChris »

I've just made another grape based gin and am very pleased with the results.
copperkettle
Novice
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:05 am

Re: How to remove off-flavours when distilling from wine

Post by copperkettle »

So a few months after my original post, I'm happy with the result after doing the following:

- I stripped the faulty wine in a pot still, without cuts
- I aired it for a couple of months (in a stainless steel tank with plenty of headspace)
- I ran it through a VM column, took the cuts (hearts were very clean, heads tasted good, tails went into the feints tub)
- Blended hearts and most of the heads
- Macerated botanicals for 24 hours in the blended spirit using two variations on Odin's Easy Gin recipe
- Ran it through the pot still again with additional botanicals in the vapour basket

I have not finished the blending of different batches of the gin but that's another topic. But the batches are good.

The point really is that in answer to my original question, yes, I was able remove the H2S taint in the wine by this method, to produce neutral spirit from which to make gin etc.

I didn't try to remove the taint from the stripped alcohol by running it more than once through the pot still, but it would have been interesting to know how far I could have got with that. With luck I won't have the 'opportunity' to find out.
cayars
Distiller
Posts: 1687
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:08 am

Re: How to remove off-flavours when distilling from wine

Post by cayars »

Glad you got it worked out!

Out of curiosity back in message one you said you had 450 liters of bad red wine. How many liters of neutral and then gin did you end up with?
Did you have to buy/build a VM still or use a friends?
Programmer specializing in process control for ExxonMobil (ethanol refinery control), WT, Omron, Bosch, Honeywell & Boeing.
More than a decade working for NASA & FAA Tech with computer code used on Space Shuttles and some airline flight recorders.
Post Reply