ammonia

[Jason Archer 35]

Hi All,
I have a reflux still that I have run 3 times with perfect results of 20% target at 190p, other than the last 2 turned out with the blue tint and the ammonia smell That I have figured out was from the result of copper "platted" scrubbies not solid that failed as my packing in the column...
I have cleaned the column and purchased the rashig rings and am ready to charge the system with these last 2 runs at 40% in hopes to remove the ammonia smell....
My question is will this do the trick, or are both runs garbage.
Thank you for your assistance in this matter.
Jason

[still_stirrin]

What did you run?

Many times nitrogen from the nutrients, if you used Turbo yeast with energizer, or added nutrients which contained nitrogen in excess, can cause ammonia in the still. And of course, that will create the blue hue due to the reduction of copper in the process.

I don’t know if this is your problem, but if you made a sugar wash and used a lot of nutrients, this could be the source of your smell.

If you look at the chemical reductions within the fermentation process and the distillation processes, you’ll see that ammmonia can be one of the byproducts. And it is less than desireable, so you’ll need to address the recipe and processes to reduce or eliminate those byproducts.
ss

[cranky]

My question is will this do the trick, or are both runs garbage.

Are you saying you plan to rerun the blue distillate?

If that's the case it is not a good idea. Toss it out, or use it to treat mold or something other than drinking.

[Saltbush Bill]

+1 agree with Cranky.

[Yummyrum]

20% target ... is that your wash ABV ?
Yes it sounds like a turbo wash or equivalent . Never going to end in a good result . And as mentioned high nutrient levels are needed to get there . .... but they can cause the Ammonia and blue booze .Its the Ammonia in the Di-Ammonium Phosfate

So you need to try Aiming closer to 10% wash ABV . ..... and subsquently you won’t need excessive amounts of nutrient .

Wondering what kind of still you have ? If its all stainless you will stll need some copper in there . Sure , the copper caused your blue but thats what happens if you have too high amounts of nutrients . .... but copper s needed to remove sulfites .

So removing copper because its causing ammonia and blue booze is a bandaid for the real problem of there being too much nutrients in your wash ...but it’s absence will cause further problems like stinky booze .

[Jason Archer 35]

Hello
Yes it was just a sugar run 18lbs sugar and 5.5 gal h2o using a turbo yeast....but in both cases I added another packet of yeast because I felt it was not "happening" quick enough....
so that makes sense on the ammonia part...
My still is stainless kettle and copper column, I just removed the copper mesh packing and replaced it with the rashig rings....

and so no matter what you dont think I should re run and try and save them both?? I get about 1\2 gal of spirit each run.... I hate to throw it if it can be saved

Thank you all again for assisting me, your advise is greatly appreciated
Jason

[NZChris]

What is the pH?

If it is high, you might get away with adding H2SO4 and redistilling, but seeing as it was a Turbo wash, It might still only be good enough for fuel.

[Saltbush Bill]

Hello
Yes it was just a sugar run 18lbs sugar and 5.5 gal h2o using a turbo yeast....but in both cases I added another packet of yeast because I felt it was not "happening" quick enough....

Greed and being in to much of a hurry have caused most of your problems. Neither are good traits to have in this hobby. A wash with the potential for 20 % abv is never going to end well. The fact that you used two packs of Turbo yeast, hence two lots of nutrients as well has only made things worse.
I'm guessing that being new to the forum you have been lead astray by the rubbish that HBS sales people will feed to you.

10-12% is about as high as you should go with ANY WASH.
Turbo yeast in general is not recommended for use here......in short most experienced distillers agree that its rubbish that makes bad booze.
Slow down , enjoy the hobby, look around the forum and use recipes from the Tried and True recipe section. These recipes are used by thousands of people from around the world every week. They are NOT just things that someone dreamed up yesterday. THEY WORK AND WORK VERY WELL.
Once you get the hang of how things work you can start to experiment with your own recipes.

[cranky]

and so no matter what you dont think I should re run and try and save them both?? I get about 1\2 gal of spirit each run.... I hate to throw it if it can be saved

Personally I recommend against trying to save blue distillate, it's not worth risking your health to save a few bucks on some bad booze. We have all had batches that had to be tossed out and chocked up to learning.

[Jason Archer 35]

Thank you for this advise,
I used the still spirits classic 8 yeast with the recommended recipe on the package. I went to the tried and true section and will try one of the sugar wash recipes next. As I have nothing in my fermenter right now I think I am going to re run the last 2 bad batches just for curiosity and because I like to watch the still at work.
based off of your experiences is there any chance that distilling this again will remove the ammonia smell? I ran it thru the charcoal and removed the color already
Thanks, Jason

[still_stirrin]

...based off of your experiences is there any chance that distilling this again will remove the ammonia smell?...

Jason, read this thread: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=9153#p6776774

Sorry if you don’t like the answer...asking it again won’t get a different answer.
ss

[NZChris]

Anyone using DAP, (diammonium phosphate), is distilling with ammonium salts in the boiler. It doesn't come over in the distillate.

If you convert the ammonium compounds into non volatile salts you should be able to keep them out of the distillate. Sulfuric or phosphoric acids should do the trick. That won't stop flavors from the Turbo wash coming over though, so it would still need carbon filtering to have any chance of it being made into a nice drink. If you don't already have a carbon filter, suitable acid and a pH meter in your arsenal, it's probably cheaper, safer and easier to chuck this lot and start over.