Liquid malt extract for cheap

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Trapped-in-Oz
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Re: Liquid malt extract for cheap

Post by Trapped-in-Oz »

Kruegerfan wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 12:14 am

You may be lucky and get minor drippings back into the pot, but I imagine it would have very little effect, if any at all.


Have since added a third disc for more surface area, I clean the discs between use and some ‘drip back’ can be seen on the pattern of discolouration on the copper.
The discolouration and smell of the copper tells me it’s not voodoo or a waste of copper.

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Re: Liquid malt extract for cheap

Post by Trapped-in-Oz »

Sporacle wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 12:32 am
Never worked with LME, given my experience with mollases it would mean LME pukes twice per stripping run

That’s reads like your molasses always pukes ?
my molasses strips have never puked and my LME just sometimes (seems to be more likely with pale LME).

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Re: Liquid malt extract for cheap

Post by EricTheRed »

Trapped-in-Oz wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 12:42 am
Sporacle wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 12:32 am
Never worked with LME, given my experience with mollases it would mean LME pukes twice per stripping run

That’s reads like your molasses always pukes ?
my molasses strips have never puked and my LME just sometimes (seems to be more likely with pale LME).

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There is a phase with LME and DME where it pukes (or foams badly)
Learnt this when making a partial grain, LME and DME Beer for drinking

BUT, once you get past that with a gentle boil, it is fine and won't puke.
Maybe something to consider during your ferment steps

ta
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Re: Liquid malt extract for cheap

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EricTheRed wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 12:53 am

BUT, once you get past that with a gentle boil, it is fine and won't puke.

IF a puke happens with an Air Still…. let it puke for 15 mins, stop, open the Air Still, wipe clean the gunk, pour the puke strip back in the boiler and start again.

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Re: Liquid malt extract for cheap

Post by Sporacle »

EricTheRed wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 12:53 am There is a phase with LME and DME where it pukes (or foams badly)
Sorry for the off topic as this could be a puke post, I can pretty much pick the exact point on my mollases strip runs when I get a slight puke. I power down for a little while and then crank it back up. The little puke is actually part of my stripping run now, all goes back in for the spirit run :thumbup:
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Re: Liquid malt extract for cheap

Post by shadylane »

LME and DME likes to foam up the first time it's boiled.
I figure it's going to foam up, so when it happens, I turn down the heat and wait a while.

On a side note.
Seems to me that distilled LME foams up less when enzymes were used.
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Re: Liquid malt extract for cheap

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shadylane wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 6:07 pm


Seems to me that distilled LME foams up less when enzymes were used.

have found DME pukes more than LME and dark LME pukes less than pale LME.

Today striping a barley/wheat malt (Coopers say the grain bill is more then 50% wheat)….. and as wheat has more protein than barley a puke was expected…. and it did but was the smallest puke I’ve experienced.

needs to be more than a little foam to switch me over to using enzymes.

What percentage increase in yield can be expected when enzymes are added to LME ?

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Re: Liquid malt extract for cheap

Post by shadylane »

Trapped-in-Oz wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 7:11 pm
What percentage increase in yield can be expected when enzymes are added to LME ?
It's been awhile, but I think the difference in final gravity was 1.010 vs .999
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Re: Liquid malt extract for cheap

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shadylane wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 10:07 pm
Trapped-in-Oz wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 7:11 pm
What percentage increase in yield can be expected when enzymes are added to LME ?
It's been awhile, but I think the difference in final gravity was 1.010 vs .999

was asking for volume percentage increase of what gets bottled.

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Re: Liquid malt extract for cheap

Post by Kruegerfan »

Trapped-in-Oz wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 10:20 pm
shadylane wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 10:07 pm
Trapped-in-Oz wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 7:11 pm
What percentage increase in yield can be expected when enzymes are added to LME ?
It's been awhile, but I think the difference in final gravity was 1.010 vs .999

was asking for volume percentage increase of what gets bottled.

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Well, TIO, You've convinced me to give it a go. Black treacle is much easier to get here than molasses, and I've seen a few wash recipes online for this so I'm gonna give it a go tomorrow and see how it does in the little air still next week. Will let you know how it turns out.
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Re: Liquid malt extract for cheap

Post by shadylane »

Trapped-in-Oz wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 10:20 pm
was asking for volume percentage increase of what gets bottled.
Around 16%
The enzymes also caused the ferment to finish and clear sooner.
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Re: Liquid malt extract for cheap

Post by bitter »

Personally I'd do this sounds cheap not much work. Definitely look into enzymes or will finish a bit higher. Amylo™ 300 might fit the bill.

B
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Re: Liquid malt extract for cheap

Post by Trapped-in-Oz »

shadylane wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 5:41 am
Around 16%

16% increase could be tempting………… alpha amylase or gluco amylase (?) can you recommend quantity/method for 3kg of LME.

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Re: Liquid malt extract for cheap

Post by shadylane »

I only experimented a little bit but didn't find any advantage to using Alpha enzymes.
If I remember correctly 0.36ml of SEBamyl-GL per pound of LME at fermentation temps did make a difference.
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Re: Liquid malt extract for cheap

Post by Trapped-in-Oz »

shadylane wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 4:04 pm I only experimented a little bit but didn't find any advantage to using Alpha enzymes.
If I remember correctly 0.36ml of SEBamyl-GL per pound of LME at fermentation temps did make a difference.

SEBamyl-GL appears to be liquid gluco amylase.
Are you saying that when mixing gluco amylase in the fermenter with LME and water, without any particular process(?), can deliver a potential yield increase of 16% ?

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Re: Liquid malt extract for cheap

Post by shadylane »

That's what I did.

Here's the percentage of the different sugars in the LME I used.
32% was unfermentable until gluco amylase nibbled half of that down to fermentable size.

Glucose.............................. 13%
Maltose .............................. 47%
Maltotriose........................... 13%
Higher Saccharides ................. 19%

Don't quote me but I think it goes something like this. :lol:

Yeast prefers glucose since it's a simple single sugar molecule.
After eating the glucose, the yeast starts working on the 2-sugars in a row called maltose.
Maltotriose is 3-sugars long and yeast has a much harder time breaking it down to size.
The Higher Saccharides are 4 or more sugar molecules in a row and yeast can't handle that.

Gluco amylase splits the 2-sugar Maltose into glucose.
Chops the 3-sugar Maltotriose into glucose.
And nibbles some glucose off the ends of the higher poly saccharides.
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Re: Liquid malt extract for cheap

Post by Trapped-in-Oz »

shadylane wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 8:13 pm That's what I did.

Here's the percentage of the different sugars in the LME I used.
32% was unfermentable until gluco amylase nibbled half of that down to fermentable size.

Glucose.............................. 13%
Maltose .............................. 47%
Maltotriose........................... 13%
Higher Saccharides ................. 19%

Don't quote me but I think it goes something like this. :lol:

Yeast prefers glucose since it's a simple single sugar molecule.
After eating the glucose, the yeast starts working on the 2-sugars in a row called maltose.
Maltotriose is 3-sugars long and yeast has a much harder time breaking it down to size.
The Higher Saccharides are 4 or more sugar molecules in a row and yeast can't handle that.

Gluco amylase splits the 2-sugar Maltose into glucose.
Chops the 3-sugar Maltotriose into glucose.
And nibbles some glucose off the ends of the higher poly saccharides.


That’s a nice explanation which doesn’t mention what you did.

13 + 47 + 13 + 19 = 92 (%?) .....…… remarkable lot of sugar in your LME.

How was the 32% of unfermentable calculated ?

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Re: Liquid malt extract for cheap

Post by shadylane »

Trapped-in-Oz wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 10:40 pm

That’s a nice explanation which doesn’t mention what you did.

13 + 47 + 13 + 19 = 92 (%?) .....…… remarkable lot of sugar in your LME.

How was the 32% of unfermentable calculated ?

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Guess you missed the link I supplied earlier.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=83594

Here's the LME and enzymes I used, give it a try.
My memory was wrong, looks like 25% not 32% was unfermentable before the addition of gluco amylase.

https://www.brewingwithbriess.com/wp-co ... rk-LME.pdf

https://enzymash.biz/download/sebamylgl.pdf
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Re: Liquid malt extract for cheap

Post by Trapped-in-Oz »

Image


okay…. not the ‘dry basis’ rather the ‘as-is’ 10 + 37 + 10 + 15 = 72%

72% is as expected and the same as https://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/sweets/5601/2 which lists carbohydrate/sugars at 71.3% for malt syrup.

will do comparison with standard glucoamylase (don’t have access to SEBamyl-GL) …….. currently busy with other ferments will come back with result in a month or two.

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Re: Liquid malt extract for cheap

Post by shadylane »

Do a couple gallon sized LME ferments with and without glucoamylase.
Just stir the water, LME, gluco and yeast into the fermenter.
The pH and temp of a fermentation is close enough to what gluco needs.

On a side note.
If you want to brew beer, gluco #%cks :sick:
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Re: Liquid malt extract for cheap

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shadylane wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 6:39 pm
Just stir the water, LME, gluco and yeast into the fermenter.

Did you give the glucoamylase ‘time’ in the fermenter before pitching the yeast ?

I might also add some Epsom Salts because LME has only one third the magnesium of molasses.

Note: protein/amino acids in malt syrup at 6.2% ........... and none in molasses.

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Re: Liquid malt extract for cheap

Post by shadylane »

Trapped-in-Oz wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 7:17 pm
Did you give the glucoamylase ‘time’ in the fermenter before pitching the yeast ?

I didn't see a need to give the glucoamylase ‘time’ to convert the unfermentable sugar.
The yeast already had plenty to eat, while the enzymes were working.
Decides, with a fermenter full of 35'c wort, the "time" to pitch yeast is right friggin now. :lol:


Trapped-in-Oz wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 7:17 pm I might also add some Epsom Salts because LME has only one third the magnesium of molasses.
LME already has all the nutrients yeast needs.
The only reason to add Epsom Salts, might be to keep folks from drinking the mash. :lol:
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Re: Liquid malt extract for cheap

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shadylane wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 8:19 pm

I didn't see a need to give the glucoamylase ‘time’ to convert the unfermentable sugar.


what about adding glucoamylase to LME (and water) in a cooking pot and heat to 50 – 60 C for an hour or so ?

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Re: Liquid malt extract for cheap

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Trapped-in-Oz wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 8:35 pm
shadylane wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 8:19 pm

I didn't see a need to give the glucoamylase ‘time’ to convert the unfermentable sugar.


what about adding glucoamylase to LME (and water) in a cooking pot and heat to 50 – 60 C for an hour or so ?

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I’m new here but why the hell would you want to use glycoamylase with a post wort extract?
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Re: Liquid malt extract for cheap

Post by shadylane »

Glucoamylase would work faster at 50 – 60c than it would at fermentation temps.
But having to heat and then cool the wort before pitching would add extra steps.
And with the extra steps, comes more room for error.
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Re: Liquid malt extract for cheap

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Stonecutter wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 8:49 pm

I’m new here but why the hell would you want to use glycoamylase with a post wort extract?

……...because shady has promised I’ll have 16% more whiskey.

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Re: Liquid malt extract for cheap

Post by Trapped-in-Oz »

shadylane wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 8:53 pm Glucoamylase would work faster at 50 – 60c than it would at fermentation temps.
But having to heat and then cool the wort before pitching would add extra steps.
And with the extra steps, comes more room for error.

the thing with only having a small still is that pots and fermenter are also small....... and light-weight.

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Re: Liquid malt extract for cheap

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Trapped-in-Oz wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 9:13 pm
Stonecutter wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 8:49 pm

I’m new here but why the hell would you want to use glycoamylase with a post wort extract?

……...because shady has promised I’ll have 16% more whiskey.

..
Taking promises from a man name “Shady“ can be dangerous :twisted:
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Re: Liquid malt extract for cheap

Post by Stonecutter »

I’m just a grain guy I suppose. Although a “simple“ all corn is definitely in my future. Thank you pintoshine!
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Re: Liquid malt extract for cheap

Post by shadylane »

Stonecutter wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 9:27 pm
Trapped-in-Oz wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 9:13 pm
Stonecutter wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 8:49 pm

I’m new here but why the hell would you want to use glycoamylase with a post wort extract?

……...because shady has promised I’ll have 16% more whiskey.

..
Taking promises from a man name “Shady“ can be dangerous :twisted:

The folks Ya need to worry about have names like Honest Bob. :lol:
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