Copper mesh distilling

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JOBRLA
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Copper mesh distilling

Post by JOBRLA »

I have a questionn. I was watching George Duncan on YouTube. He was explaining how you cam put 100% copper mesh inside your evaporator tube at the bottom and as the vapor rises through it and cools and falls back down on the mesh, it creates a second stilling process like you ran it through twice.
Does this sound right or just another youtube farse.
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Expat
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Re: Copper mesh distilling

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Pointers, and a piece of advice.
JOBRLA wrote: Wed Jun 10, 2020 11:15 am I have a questionn. I was watching George Duncan :sick: on YouTube :thumbdown: . He was explaining how you cam put 100% copper mesh inside your evaporator tube at the bottom and as the vapor rises through it and cools and falls back down on the mesh, it creates a second stilling process like you ran it through twice.
Does this sound right or just another youtube farse.
Pointers:
"inside your evaporator tube" This is called a column or riser.

"... vapor rises through it and cools and falls back down on the mesh, it creates a second stilling process like you ran it through twice." This effect is known as reflux, "Packing" your column with copper mesh provides surface for the distillate to slow and re evaporate before getting back to the boiler. In addition to packing, a reflux condenser is required to cause the distillate to cool and fall back down the column. A reflux column can accomplish the same effect many runs, not just two. Several lifetimes worth of reading is available on these two points, so use the Search as your gateway to knowledge.

Advice:
IMHO, George and his ilk are idiots who should be ignored (along with Youtube in general). He is consistently wrong in his assertions and promotes BS to market the crap he's selling. You're lucky to have found HD as its the very best resource to learn from; stick to the knowledge you find here and you'll make a much better drink and stay a lot safer.
Last edited by Expat on Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Copper mesh distilling

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Thanks Expat, the more I watched him, the more I shook my head. You guys are awesome here. Take care and be safe
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: Copper mesh distilling

Post by Saltbush Bill »

If you are running a completely stainless still copper packing in the riser or column is a good way to get some copper into the system. You need copper in a still at some point.
Besides that Expat is correct, and George is wrong yet again. The guy is a menace to distilling.
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Re: Copper mesh distilling

Post by JOBRLA »

My still is ALL stainless, don't know really where to introduce copper in it at this point
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Corsaire
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Re: Copper mesh distilling

Post by Corsaire »

Bits of copper tube in the boiler, or copper mesh stuffed in the riser are the most common.
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Re: Copper mesh distilling

Post by Bushman »

Copper in the path is needed to remove sulfates. We have a distillery in our state that has an all stainless pot still so rather than use mesh he cut up copper pipe and put it in the column. I would think with a reflux still you would want more contact surface area so using mesh if not bubble caps would be the right option.
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Expat
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Re: Copper mesh distilling

Post by Expat »

I don't think that copper columns really make all that much difference to sulphide reactions after the first few runs. I don't bother deep cleaning the column regularly, but I do clean the packing, it's easy. Besides, copper packing would have a huge amount more surface area and therefore be far more effective anyway.

Unclear to me if copper in the boiler makes a material difference to the process.
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Re: Copper mesh distilling

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Expat wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:50 am I don't think that copper columns really make all that much.......Unclear to me if copper in the boiler makes a material difference to the process.
But it is so classic... and pretty.
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Re: Copper mesh distilling

Post by MtRainier »

I know this isn't exactly what you asked, but the copper in the vapor path does have an impact on the vapor flavor. I put copper mesh in the column, even on pot distilled runs. It always comes out black, and I wash it like Expat does. He's right that it's easy. I also sometimes drop it in a bucket with some water and a little bit of citric acid and it comes out shiny and new in an hour or two, but mostly I just give it a good rinse and dry.

My column is also copper and comes apart in sections so I wash that less often, but it still gets a rinse sometimes. I don't know what exactly the black compounds are, but I suspect from the smell that it wouldn't taste good in the distillate.

If you put a reflux condenser up at the top George would be right about the packing, but without a reflux condenser (also called a dephlegmator) within a few minutes the entire column will all be at around the same temperature and then you get no additional cycles of distilling. You need a colder point at the top to turn the vapor back into liquid and let it drip down through the packing to be redistilled.
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Re: Copper mesh distilling

Post by WithOrWithoutU2 »

Be careful where you get your copper mesh from. I got mine from a well know retail shop that sells a ton of SS Distillation kits and includes copper mesh in the kit. I ran with some stuffed in my column. I was always curious why my backset was so rust colored even with my sugar washes. Being new I chalked it up to the high temps in the boiler changing the color of the wash. My distillate was crystal clear so I let it go. But then I ran without the copper mesh packing once and the backset no longer had that rust colored. I now use a copper column instead of a SS column stuffed with copper mesh. I do wonder sometimes if I need to revisit using copper mesh again as my copper column is only 2' diameter and 24 inches length and my copper shotgun condenser is about 20in length. I wonder if that is enough during a stripping run to eliminate the sulfates. When doing whiskey I rerun through the copper column/condenser for spirit runs. But on my neutral, I run through 48" SS column packed with SS SPP with a copper boka head.
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: Copper mesh distilling

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Expat wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:50 am I don't think that copper columns really make all that much difference to sulphide reactions after the first few runs.
Really ?..... I suggest you run a dirty copper column unpacked side by side next to a stainless still with no packing one day.......your nose will soon tell you what you need to know. I can smell the spirit from an unpacked stainless column a mile off.
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Re: Copper mesh distilling

Post by dukethebeagle120 »

Copper mesh for me is hard to get
I got a 2 inch column
I also cut rings out of 1/2 inch copper and fill the column
Really makes a difference in the final product
I find the copper takes the sting out of the likker
Sulfur must give it some sting i guess
And saltbush is rite
Stinks to high hell without copper in the path
its better to think like a fool but keep your mouth shut,then to open ur mouth and have it confirmed
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Re: Copper mesh distilling

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Duke the first time I spent time standing near a stainless still I was wondering what the hell they had running in it cause of the stink. Wasn't till I was driving home later that it hit me, :wtf: SULFUR! . wheeeew!
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Re: Copper mesh distilling

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Saltbush Bill wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:17 pm
Expat wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:50 am I don't think that copper columns really make all that much difference to sulphide reactions after the first few runs.
Really ?..... I suggest you run a dirty copper column unpacked side by side next to a stainless still with no packing one day.......your nose will soon tell you what you need to know. I can smell the spirit from an unpacked stainless column a mile off.
The crux of my comment is that copper packing provides all the surface required for sulphide reactions and are easier to clean. If using none, then the situation would I'm sure be as you described it.
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Re: Copper mesh distilling

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Expat wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:36 pm
Saltbush Bill wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:17 pm
Expat wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:50 am I don't think that copper columns really make all that much difference to sulphide reactions after the first few runs.
Really ?..... I suggest you run a dirty copper column unpacked side by side next to a stainless still with no packing one day.......your nose will soon tell you what you need to know. I can smell the spirit from an unpacked stainless column a mile off.
After dozens of runs on my still (3" copper riser and still head into 2" copper shotgun) I have yet to detect any hints of sulphur in any distillate, and all I've ever done is just rinse all parts after every run.
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Re: Copper mesh distilling

Post by HomerD »

Try reading this about copper placement: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf ... .tb00450.x
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Re: Copper mesh distilling

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If I ask a distiller, "Did you remember to put the copper in?", the answer is usually, "Whoops, I forgot!". I can smell the difference right through the whole run.

I don't believe that simply putting packing in a riser is a substitute for having copper in the boiler. I reckon that is myth that gets traction from having so many manufacturers and sellers of SS boilers dismissing genuine concerns about the quality of their products.

If I'm using an SS boiler, I chuck some copper in it. It doesn't take up much room.
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Re: Copper mesh distilling

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HomerD wrote:Try reading this about copper placement: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf ... .tb00450.x
Interesting article, good read!...I put 1 copper mesh roll in my pot still column. normally only the bottom of the mesh gets discolored.

However, I put a little copper mesh ball in the middle of the condenser tube to help regulate flow and after a couple runs the little bit of copper I put up there came out dark and nasty.

So even though my copper mesh was absorbing most of the sulphur compounds, there were some squeaking by that the copper in the condenser got. Interesting to see if I didnt have that copper ball in the condenser if there would be any minute flavour or aroma changes.
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Re: Copper mesh distilling

Post by Thebigbrewbowski »

NZChris wrote:If I ask a distiller, "Did you remember to put the copper in?", the answer is usually, "Whoops, I forgot!". I can smell the difference right through the whole run.

I don't believe that simply putting packing in a riser is a substitute for having copper in the boiler. I reckon that is myth that gets traction from having so many manufacturers and sellers of SS boilers dismissing genuine concerns about the quality of their products.

If I'm using an SS boiler, I chuck some copper in it. It doesn't take up much room.
ok kinda relevant question...I finally got a low watt density element, after running a batch of ujssm the element was black and scrubbing it a bunch of what looked like black ink came off...the element appeared as stainless when I bought it but after a couple runs its now turned to copper color...wtf is going on with my element is this normal? what is that black stuff...some reaction with the coating on the element or was that sulfur? are all stainless elements copper but coated?
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Re: Copper mesh distilling

Post by Saltbush Bill »

NZChris wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:41 pm I don't believe that simply putting packing in a riser is a substitute for having copper in the boiler.
I believe your right , I run all copper stills but also run copper off cuts in my boiler. Crux is its hard to have to much copper in the system, but easy to not have enough.
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Re: Copper mesh distilling

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Thebigbrewbowski wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:11 pmok kinda relevant question...I finally got a low watt density element, after running a batch of ujssm the element was black and scrubbing it a bunch of what looked like black ink came off...the element appeared as stainless when I bought it but after a couple runs its now turned to copper color...wtf is going on with my element is this normal? what is that black stuff...some reaction with the coating on the element or was that sulfur? are all stainless elements copper but coated?
It was probably zinc coated and the zinc has dissolved. I don't remember mine going black, but if they did, it would have been during the stripping runs and they would have been down to the copper by the time I cleaned up for the spirit runs.
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Re: Copper mesh distilling

Post by Thebigbrewbowski »

NZChris wrote:
Thebigbrewbowski wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:11 pmok kinda relevant question...I finally got a low watt density element, after running a batch of ujssm the element was black and scrubbing it a bunch of what looked like black ink came off...the element appeared as stainless when I bought it but after a couple runs its now turned to copper color...wtf is going on with my element is this normal? what is that black stuff...some reaction with the coating on the element or was that sulfur? are all stainless elements copper but coated?
It was probably zinc coated and the zinc has dissolved. I don't remember mine going black, but if they did, it would have been during the stripping runs and they would have been down to the copper by the time I cleaned up for the spirit runs.
ok thanks, appreciate the response.
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Re: Copper mesh distilling

Post by dukethebeagle120 »

Twisted Brick wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:16 pm
Expat wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:36 pm
Saltbush Bill wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:17 pm
Expat wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:50 am I don't think that copper columns really make all that much difference to sulphide reactions after the first few runs.
Really ?..... I suggest you run a dirty copper column unpacked side by side next to a stainless still with no packing one day.......your nose will soon tell you what you need to know. I can smell the spirit from an unpacked stainless column a mile off.
After dozens of runs on my still (3" copper riser and still head into 2" copper shotgun) I have yet to detect any hints of sulphur in any distillate, and all I've ever done is just rinse all parts after every run.
If you wanna see,do back tto back runs of feed grade molly,and then unsulfured molly.
Then you'll see what saltbush is talking about
its better to think like a fool but keep your mouth shut,then to open ur mouth and have it confirmed
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Re: Copper mesh distilling

Post by JOBRLA »

Ha ha I went to the local hardware store a found a large ball of copper mesh that the package said "PURE COPPER" I bought one and took it home, placed a magnet to it and it held it up. So much for PURE COPPER.
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