I know the turbos get a hard time, but why?

[PoorBoyJack]

So I have been experimenting over the last few weeks to try and get a better understanding of things, and I have some interesting results.

All through this thread there is the common rhetoric to dump the turbo yeasts etc, and go into the Tried and True section, and do it all a certain way. I am wondering though, if that is for Pot Stills only? I ask that because I have tried the All Bran, the Tomato Wash, and 3 different turbo yeasts, and I can't tell the difference between either of them, and the Turbos. That said, these are being run in the T500 Reflux Still.

Everything that comes out of that still tastes great, and I have tried to line them up on the bench and pick which is which, and I simply can't! At 40% they all taste bloody good and clean. So as much as I tend to agree that a lot of the times these companies will make you do things a certain way, so they can sell you turbo carbon, turbo yeast, and filters etc.... they do produce a good spirit. Not saying the All Bran didn't - it did too, and that's my point! I guess there is no right or wrong way,

I guess at the end of they day, if the 10 bucks of turbo ingredients is too much in a 25L wash, then maybe it matters to you. But when I know the turbo system will make a great product every time and the 10 bucks don't matter, well, I guess that will do too!

Horses for courses, and just my 0.2.

(I will duck now)

[NZChris]

As long as you like it, that's all that matters.

A mate of mine asked me what he should do, then promptly went and did the polar opposite using equipment, advice and ingredients from his local HBS. He told me that he is very happy with the product he's making, but his wife was standing behind him shaking her head and told me afterwards that it's not a patch on anything made in my shed. They know a few other new home distillers and she told me that most what of she had tasted from them wasn't as great as the guys were telling each other they were.

[PoorBoyJack]

Yep! I guess it's what you like.

I had a mate taste the All Bran and then the Turbo and said... I like the Turbo better. LOL! You can't please everyone!!

[NZChris]

I take it you're using "...turbo carbon, turbo yeast, and filters etc."?

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

Yep! I guess it's what you like.

And last I remember, yours was All Bran, and not turbo. Seems like you could tell the difference then.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9981&p=7614020#p7614020

[PoorBoyJack]

Yep. I could taste a slight difference. I can even taste a slight difference from the start of the run to the middle. BUT... once it's mixed to a favourite tipple, there is no difference. LOL! Only when I drink it straight, and that's not often!

[LWTCS]

They'll be differences on the sugarhead. But as long as processed sugar is your fermentable source they'll also have similarities.
Kinda how chicken always (remarkably) taste like chicken no matter how well it has been prepared, or how badly it has been prepared. A little seasoning or well seasoned. Baked or boiled.
One hundred and fifty ways to make it taste like chicken...

[jonnys_spirit]

I feel like the point of using T&T is that it's a tried and true protocol end to end where the yeast and nutrients are a contributing element to the protocol and who knows how one vendors turbo differs from another vendors turbo product. The turbo products are also marketed as intended to be used in a high ABV 48hr ferment which is also a protocol modification or whatever you want to call it.

How one does their cuts and AC filtering would be further refinements to any particular protocol.

The notion that a turbo yeast can produce 18-20% ABV in 48h is going to produce more negligible product that needs to be AC filtered out and perhaps run multiple times... It's essentially a ones-sized heavy-handed approach analogous to using a sledge hammer or ramset to drive and set a finishing brad. There are better tools and protocols.

I feel like most folks around here are interested in learning about and producing craft spirits not gasahol.

Maybe try drinking a 750 of each neutral product a week or so apart and also use your hangover and recovery artifacts to determine the quality and start working backwards?

Cheers,
jonny

[gwizard]

Like most people who come new into this hobby, I've used turbo yeast with an airstill.
Result after one distillation + charcoal filtering is drinkable, and even better then red square (cheapest commercial vodka I could get), but nowhere near Absolut (which is what I consider the best vodka). After two distillations, its even better, but not good enough, and that's understandable, since airstill is a pot still.
Take same wash with turbo and put it in a reflux still. Great result, clean, no need to even use carbon. Take TPW in reflux still and after 2 weeks in fridge it developed a weird aftertaste.

All that to say that turbos have their place.

Now I use EC-1118. Superb yeast, fast ferment and can hold up to 18% abv. Not a turbo, but behaves like such and much cheaper too. To me, that's a win.

[cranky]

Two big reasons not to use turbo are

1) Blue distillate= 99% of cases of blue distillate are related to the use of turbo yeast and copper in the still. To me that alone is the best reason not to use it.

2) Cost= It's not cost effective compared to other ways of doing it.

Now, like others have said, you are free to do what you like and if you like the turbo method that is fine but generally people go one of two ways with this hobby. They either go the turbo route, make something they think is fine once mixed with something, often to hide the off flavors or just to brag to friends, and just keep making it the same way until they get bored and go back to buying the cheapest vodka at the liquor store, or they start working on improving their product to be the best they can make develop a palate to be able to taste various subtle flavors and can never stand to drink store bought again.

Basically it all comes down to what you wish to gain from the hobby.

[gwizard]

1) Blue distillate= 99% of cases of blue distillate are related to the use of turbo yeast and copper in the still. To me that alone is the best reason not to use it.

Granted I've never had too much experience with turbos, only used them 4-5 times until all local HBS ran out of stock due to covid, but I've never had blue distillate. Didn't even think its possible due to nature of vaporization and condensing. Do you know why this happens and what exactly causes it?

[cranky]

1) Blue distillate= 99% of cases of blue distillate are related to the use of turbo yeast and copper in the still. To me that alone is the best reason not to use it.

Granted I've never had too much experience with turbos, only used them 4-5 times until all local HBS ran out of stock due to covid, but I've never had blue distillate. Didn't even think its possible due to nature of vaporization and condensing. Do you know why this happens and what exactly causes it?

Basically the excess nutrients in the wash cause ammonia to form which reacts with the copper and causes poisoned blue distillate.

[jonnys_spirit]

Also noting that high ABV washes tend to subject the yeasties to an environment where they produce more off flavors with 6-8% potential being a noted desirable range - Some folks have reported that 10% is fine too but the idea is that the lower end of the range does not subject the yeasties to as high an ABV or as low of a pH environment which keeps them in a healthier ethanol producing range.

Cheers!
-jonny

[TDick]

I am NOT advocating using Turbo Yeast

This is playing a little devil's advocate because I'm curious.
First of all, before I got here I also thought, 'Hey TURBO yeast! It's got everything!"
but I quickly learned and have never tried it.
But as I understand it, the "benefit" is that is contains nutrients, alpha & beta amalyse & CAN be used for higher ABV washes.

Are the resulting off flavors because of shooting for the higher ABVs?
I'm just wondering if you use turbo in an AG shooting for 1.068-1.07 how would that compare to a T&T?

Also, there's a lot of conversation about Angel Yeast. A lot of folks seem to use & like it.
From the Angel Yeast website:
"Active dry yeast YH is made of specifically selected high-quality alcohol yeast strains and a special blend of minerals,
vitamins, and nutrients, applicable for sugar fermentation and performing excellently under most conditions. It is a yeast
and nutrient pack especially designed to produce alcohol with high fermentation speed and ferments to high alcohol
levels, ferments up to 19% or sometimes greater."

How does that differ from Turdbo Yeast?
again, just asking questions.

edit: I noticed that their website does not disclose what's in it so I sent an email to them asking.

[Twisted Brick]

I feel like most folks around here are interested in learning about and producing craft spirits not gasahol.

+1

Here on HD, the allure of developing one's distilling knowledge carries on long after the novelty of creating a high-ABV rocket fuel that 'comes in a packet' (and requires a mixer to choke down) wears off. I guess thats why one doesn't see knowledgeable distillers switching to turbos.

But to each his own.

[greggn]

Absolut (which is what I consider the best vodka).

Please tell me that there's some kind of smiley face, winking emoji missing from your post.

[Deplorable]

After reading everything I have so far, I've come to the OPINION that Turbo yeast is great for making alternative fuel sources and the like, but not for making good liquor.
Might even be good for making hand sanitizer, but Thats not why I ventured in to this craft.
That's my opinion, and nothing more. I dont know enough yet to give any scientific evidence for or against its use, so I'm just gonna sit back and keep reading.

[StillerBoy]

This subject " turbo yeast " has been beaten to dead here on HD from way back from the beginning of time..

New members should learn to use the search bar in the light blue area, and research what has been quoted / stated over the past 12 - 15 yrs on the subject..

Here's a start.. app.php/googlesearch?cx=012980085383122 ... itesearch=

And another.. viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10541

Mars

[Beerswimmer]

Also, there's a lot of conversation about Angel Yeast. A lot of folks seem to use & like it.
From the Angel Yeast website:
"Active dry yeast YH is made of specifically selected high-quality alcohol yeast strains and a special blend of minerals,
vitamins, and nutrients, applicable for sugar fermentation and performing excellently under most conditions. It is a yeast
and nutrient pack especially designed to produce alcohol with high fermentation speed and ferments to high alcohol
levels, ferments up to 19% or sometimes greater."

How does that differ from Turdbo Yeast?
again, just asking questions.

edit: I noticed that their website does not disclose what's in it so I sent an email to them asking.

Not to sidetrack for the use of turbos.
Angel yeast is not being used for high abv washes like turbos, it's being used to skip the mashing process. Angel yeast has enzymes that will convert the starches in grains to sugars and then ferment them. No mashing, no gelatinizing, etc. Just add grains to water and pitch Angel yeast. It makes all grain as easy as a sugarhead, without the sugar.

[Saltbush Bill]

Quite a few yeasts can and will tolerate high ABVs.
That doesnt mean its a good idea or that they should be used that way.
If high ABV ferments gave great results im sure that commercial distilleries would be the first to be using them.
As a rule of thumb they don't and there is good reason for that.
Reasons that have been established over many hundreds of years and through thousands of trials and errors.
There seems to be two seperate types of hobby distiller, those who take the hobby seriously and try hard to produce the best quality booze they can.
The other sort settle for " quick easy homebrew shop methods" and are happy to settle for rotgut booze that is second best.

[kimbodious]

Sales on turbo years must be slipping?

[Saltbush Bill]

Poorboy another thing you might try while experimenting is this.
Make two washes.....one x Shadys Sugar Shine to exact recipe.
One x Turdbo of your chose .....to exact recipe stated on packet.
Once they are fermenting good and hard take the lids off the fermenters........have a good smell of each as you do so.......note the smells of each.
Once they are both fully fermented take a large soup spoon and sample a spoon full of each of the ferments. Not a tiny sip.....the whole spoon full.......report back.
Old saying in distilling circles....." rubbish in rubbish out"

[NZChris]

Also, there's a lot of conversation about Angel Yeast. A lot of folks seem to use & like it.
From the Angel Yeast website:
"Active dry yeast YH is made of specifically selected high-quality alcohol yeast strains and a special blend of minerals,
vitamins, and nutrients, applicable for sugar fermentation and performing excellently under most conditions. It is a yeast
and nutrient pack especially designed to produce alcohol with high fermentation speed and ferments to high alcohol
levels, ferments up to 19% or sometimes greater."

How does that differ from Turdbo Yeast?
again, just asking questions.

That product's name is Turbo Yeast YH. Angel sells a lot of different fermentation products, (I have three different ones), but I have never seen Turbo Yeast YH discussed on this forum and never used it myself.

[SmokyMtn]

This subject " turbo yeast " has been beaten to dead here on HD from way back from the beginning of time..

New members should learn to use the search bar

Mars

Currently their are 855,953 post on this forum. Wouldn't you think with that much information, we already discussed just about every subject. And their shouldn't be much need to debate or discuss any topic. All of us should just search and keep to our selves. This forum would be pretty stagnant without questions and answers. Doesn't hurt to ask. Rule #2 . For that matter, you're not obligated to reply with an answer. JMO

Patience and understanding, we were all new at some point. Everyone here, is here to learn more about this great hobby.

[LWTCS]

Easy now.....

[PoorBoyJack]

Thanks all for the input.

Can I ask... are you guys all referring to Pot or Reflux still? Because I can't get anything to taste much different (just a little) when put through the reflux at 52 degrees C. It all just comes up clear and neutral. Yes, there is a slight difference in taste between the All Bran and the Turbo, but not enough to worry about, to be honest.

I don't have an understanding of Pot stilling, but I believe more flavours are achievable - is that right?

[NZChris]

I take it you're using "...turbo carbon, turbo yeast, and filters etc."?

????

[Saltbush Bill]

Your not refluxing anything at 52c.....that is simply the water temp leaving the still.
Stills are many and varied and work in different ways.
What ever the still used the end result will always be better using the best wash possible.
Your opinion of what good spirit is now.maybe very different 12 months from now.

[PoorBoyJack]

Yes - Sorry. That is my water temp leaving my still.... the T500. Agreed.

And, yep... maybe you are right, maybe my tastes will change.

Don't get me wrong... I am not saying any particular method is wrong. I am just trying to understand how things get to taste different, because I can't seem to get any taste difference (very little anyway), and understanding why, is what I am trying to do.

[StillerBoy]

I am just trying to understand how things get to taste different, because I can't seem to get any taste difference (very little anyway), and understanding why, is what I am trying to do.

It's really simple.. experiment with the following and you will get to see the difference..

Three items affect the the end product thereby the flavor or taste if you want.. the sugar used, be it from white, brown, raw or pure cane and the starches from grains once converted to sugar.. the yeast used and their preferred fermentation range and non preferred range.. and in a sugar wash the added flavor, be bran, wheat germ, corn flakes or any other addition to the wash.. and all are affected by the amounts used in their combination..

Try a different yeast with a standard sugar and see the different in the end product.. they will all product different result.. how you combine the ingredient, the sugars and the yeast used, and the amount, is how and why the different in end result..

And the use of turbo is no different.. first understand what is the make up of a turbo yeast package, then manage it in accordance for what it was made to do and the result one is looking for..

Mars