Reflux And Tails

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ravi
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Reflux And Tails

Post by ravi » Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:36 pm

Hello,
Hope all are fit and fine!

I am new to this hobby and recently completed four runs of different differnt product: rice liquor, Banana brandy, mix fruit brandy(apple ,pine apple, ginger beer) & Bourbon style(going on!).
I have modular 2" reflux still with 25 liters electric boiler. column can be use in pot still and reflux both mode easily. So far all things i run in pot still mode with little bit of copper packing. ABV is coming out around 70-80%. I am almost kind of satisfied and also little bit got the idea when things changing to head, heart & tails.
Just to test the reflux condenser one day during the run i started the reflux condenser in between the mixed fruit brandy run. Playing with it))) i opened the reflux condenser water supply valve to full flow and established full reflux for some time. Then i crack open valve to some where mid way and dripping start from the product condenser. I was so amazed and exited to see the ABV shoots to above 90%!!!!!.Then the question came to my mind :?:

Question: If i am running some whiskey or brandy something like that in pot still mode with reflux condenser not in working during the run untill I entered in to Tails. when the tail starts at that time, if i start my reflux condenser. Can I Ramp up tha ABV and get rid of nasty smell to some Far extent. So that the heart range will increase up with some flavours too????

Apologise, if i asked some silly question :roll:

Thanks in Advance!!
Ravi
In search of Dream whiskey.................

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still_stirrin
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Re: Reflux And Tails

Post by still_stirrin » Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:14 am

ravi wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:36 pm
Question: If i am running some whiskey or brandy something like that in pot still mode with reflux condenser not in working during the run untill I entered in to Tails. when the tail starts at that time, if i start my reflux condenser. Can I Ramp up tha ABV and get rid of nasty smell to some Far extent. So that the heart range will increase up with some flavours too????
Ravi,
That’s an interesting question. I am not aware of much, if any discussion of using this “potstill to reflux” method during a full flavored spirit run to extract additional “hearts” from “tails”. Certainly I’ve never tried this. Instead, I simply rerun the tails (another distillation) through the potstill to salvage any “goodness” from the “ass end” of the run.

I know that a reflux column will compress the backend, allowing you to extract the hearts longer. Extrapolating this phenomenon, you should be able to push the stinky tails closer to power down while squeezing a bit more of the late hearts to your collection.

Try it and report your observation.
ss
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StillerBoy
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Re: Reflux And Tails

Post by StillerBoy » Fri Aug 07, 2020 6:25 am

ravi wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:36 pm
Question: If i am running some whiskey or brandy something like that in pot still mode with reflux condenser not in working during the run untill I entered in to Tails. when the tail starts at that time, if i start my reflux condenser. Can I Ramp up tha ABV and get rid of nasty smell to some Far extent. So that the heart range will increase up with some flavours too????
I'm assuming here, but to compress the tails, in a reflux mode setup, some form of packing is required for the vapors to reflux..

To answer the question as to increasing the heart range.. yes to some extend the body and flavor.. it's called operating a reflux column in hybrid mode..

In a refllux column setup with packing, one starts the run refluxing for a 15 - 20 period as this will compress the heads, the extraction of the heads is done at a slow rate of take off, like a 100ml per 12 min.. once out of the head section, the mode of extraction is changed to pot mode.. meaning using less power and openning the take off rate wide open, and the take rate is now controlled by the amount of power used, the same as if it was a pot run.. as the tails start to arrive, you now switch back to reflux mode setting again, and compress the early tails..

Mars
" I know quite certainly that I myself have no special talent. Curiosity, Obsession and dogged endurance, combined with self-criticism, have brought me to my ideas "

– Albert Einstein

ravi
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Re: Reflux And Tails

Post by ravi » Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:43 pm

still_stirrin wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:14 am
ravi wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:36 pm
Question: If i am running some whiskey or brandy something like that in pot still mode with reflux condenser not in working during the run untill I entered in to Tails. when the tail starts at that time, if i start my reflux condenser. Can I Ramp up tha ABV and get rid of nasty smell to some Far extent. So that the heart range will increase up with some flavours too????
Ravi,
That’s an interesting question. I am not aware of much, if any discussion of using this “potstill to reflux” method during a full flavored spirit run to extract additional “hearts” from “tails”. Certainly I’ve never tried this. Instead, I simply rerun the tails (another distillation) through the potstill to salvage any “goodness” from the “ass end” of the run.

I know that a reflux column will compress the backend, allowing you to extract the hearts longer. Extrapolating this phenomenon, you should be able to push the stinky tails closer to power down while squeezing a bit more of the late hearts to your collection.

Try it and report your observation.
ss
Thanks for reply :thumbup:
I will surly try and present what every will be observation.
cheers
In search of Dream whiskey.................

ravi
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Re: Reflux And Tails

Post by ravi » Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:45 pm

StillerBoy wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 6:25 am
ravi wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:36 pm
Question: If i am running some whiskey or brandy something like that in pot still mode with reflux condenser not in working during the run untill I entered in to Tails. when the tail starts at that time, if i start my reflux condenser. Can I Ramp up tha ABV and get rid of nasty smell to some Far extent. So that the heart range will increase up with some flavours too????
I'm assuming here, but to compress the tails, in a reflux mode setup, some form of packing is required for the vapors to reflux..

To answer the question as to increasing the heart range.. yes to some extend the body and flavor.. it's called operating a reflux column in hybrid mode..

In a refllux column setup with packing, one starts the run refluxing for a 15 - 20 period as this will compress the heads, the extraction of the heads is done at a slow rate of take off, like a 100ml per 12 min.. once out of the head section, the mode of extraction is changed to pot mode.. meaning using less power and openning the take off rate wide open, and the take rate is now controlled by the amount of power used, the same as if it was a pot run.. as the tails start to arrive, you now switch back to reflux mode setting again, and compress the early tails..

Mars
Hello,

I came to know from your reply that i bought a hybrid still :P.....i will surly try hybrid operation in next run.

cheers,
ravi
In search of Dream whiskey.................

charcoal
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Re: Reflux And Tails

Post by charcoal » Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:37 pm

Yours is not a hybrid still. Yours is a modular still. It can be changed to a huge number of configurations.

ravi
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Re: Reflux And Tails

Post by ravi » Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:06 pm

charcoal wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:37 pm
Yours is not a hybrid still. Yours is a modular still. It can be changed to a huge number of configurations.
oh really!!!
can you tell me how many?
thanks
In search of Dream whiskey.................

charcoal
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Re: Reflux And Tails

Post by charcoal » Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:29 pm

Pot still, VM still, CCVM, LM, LMVM combo, you already have a CM anyway. You can buy heads for that on ebay/amazon/aliexpress etc.

You can add Gin baskets, Sight glasses, Parrots, Bubble plates etc as well.

ravi
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Re: Reflux And Tails

Post by ravi » Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:18 pm

charcoal wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:29 pm
Pot still, VM still, CCVM, LM, LMVM combo, you already have a CM anyway. You can buy heads for that on ebay/amazon/aliexpress etc.

You can add Gin baskets, Sight glasses, Parrots, Bubble plates etc as well.
cool!!
thanks a lot for info
In search of Dream whiskey.................

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Saltbush Bill
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Re: Reflux And Tails

Post by Saltbush Bill » Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:22 pm

Can we see a photo of this still ..or have a link to one exactly the same ?

ravi
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Re: Reflux And Tails

Post by ravi » Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:10 pm

Saltbush Bill wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:22 pm
Can we see a photo of this still ..or have a link to one exactly the same ?
sure i will update realy photo next week..i am going to still some holy water next weekend :D
In search of Dream whiskey.................

RJB510
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Re: Reflux And Tails

Post by RJB510 » Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:00 pm

Digging this back up because i can offer some advice on this.

I use a LM still and charge the boiler with a clean wash. I.e. the sediment has settled out.
I add about 3-5 scrubbers in the column and bring the still to temp. Once there, i drop the power back to about half and go to full reflux and stack the column then draw off the fores and heads. They pull off at a good 90% ish.

Once that is done, and the solventy sting is removed, i drop the power down low and close off the reflux valve to collect the hearts, like a pot still, on a thin stream. They start to come off from 80% and i'll collect down to about 55% when tails start to come in, or at about 95 degrees at the vapour temp as a guide.

At that point, i'll open the reflux valve again and increase the power, this will begin compressing the tails and stacking the column again. The abv will increase to about 70% or higher and the temp at the still head will also drop down to the low 80's. i'll keep collecting like this until it slows to a point that it isn't worth collecting. I generally slowly increase the reflux ratio or boiler power to achieve this. I haven't settled on a preferred method to stack the tails yet.

I do one run, single wash and end up with a really clean hearts cut and limited tails with a very nice flavour carryover. I've done whisky and rum this way with great results.

What i did find though, was late compressed tails are high in abv, and whilst they still brought across flavour, there is a hint of the smell and taste associated with a tails run, so it doesn't eliminate it entirely, though i suspect that is where a CM still will shine as opposed to an LM.

Though, in my opinion, doing it this way is a good alternative with many advantages over a traditional pot still and distilling techniques to get a great flavourful product.

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