Is the baker's yeast slower than brewer's/distillers yeast?

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kyolic
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Is the baker's yeast slower than brewer's/distillers yeast?

Post by kyolic » Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:25 am

I have never used baker's yeast before and planning to give it a go. My 1080 mash ferments dry in 5 days with good quality wine yeast (using Yeast Bomb as the nute). Will it ferment dry in 5 days also with the baker's yeast? I really cannot wait any longer than that.

And how much baker's yeast should I pitch in 40 liters of mash at 1080?

Thanks in advance.

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Re: Is the baker's yeast slower than brewer's/distillers yeast?

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond » Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:35 am

2 things you need. Tempature definition and later, patience.

I have had bakers finish in 3 days. But I am not afraid to let it roll at 100 degrees. At 70, the same yeast would take the better of 2 weeks. All about tempature.

The second is patience. There is so much benefit to letting a ferment go longer. Even if it finishes, I always recommend letting it sit even another week. While on the trub, yeast will continue to clean up the wash/ mash, even after the sugars are all gone.

1.08 is the upper limit of sg imo, but it's not outside optimal for bakers. I don't see them being stressed. That is, unless, you ferment at high temp and push it fast to fit your expectations.

To answer directly, bakers, 5 days, in my shed, no problem. But I never really stand over it as it doesn't matter. It will be ready when it's ready, and I let it rest. I do a 2-3 week stress free (me and the yeast) schedule.

When people start talking fast ferments with high yield, i start to wonder about their intentions. And surely question their thoughts of quantity vs. quality.
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Re: Is the baker's yeast slower than brewer's/distillers yeast?

Post by still_stirrin » Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:38 am

Whatcha’ fermenting?

Baker’s yeast will be a fast fermenter if the conditions are right for it.
1) proper fermenting temperature...and bakers likes it warmer than a lot of typical beverage yeasts.
2) adequate nutrients...most all grain ferments have plenty of nutrients available to beverage yeasts and also bakers.
3) good aeration at the start of the ferment....yeast populations will “bud”, or reproduce to build the necessary cell count for an active ferment. Oxygen helps this phase of the process. Ironically, over pitching yeast is NOT necessary if the conditions for budding are met.
4) pH management...if you’re fermenting sugar washes, acid production control measures may be needed to keep the yeast from stopping too soon. Grain ferments typically don’t have this problem because the grains buffer the acid production.

In conclusion, I’ve found baker’s yeast works quite good for most ferments. A wine or champagne yeast may be better suited for a wine must ferment (fruit) or a sugar wash because of the flavor profiles they present for the fruit ferments. Baker’s yeast is a natural for a grain ferment by the same token. I use baker’s yeast for my rum ferments too.

Give it a try and see.
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Re: Is the baker's yeast slower than brewer's/distillers yeast?

Post by 8Ball » Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:07 am

It might finish in 5 days. I’d use 20 grams. I’d also pay attention to all the great advice you’ve been given.

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Re: Is the baker's yeast slower than brewer's/distillers yeast?

Post by kyolic » Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:10 am

ShineonCrazyDiamond wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:35 am
2 things you need. Tempature definition and later, patience.

At 70, the same yeast would take the better of 2 weeks.
86 degrees is the maximum I can reach. So I think that it will ferment within a week with proper amount of Yeast Bomb added. Am I right?

And also how much of it for 40 liters of wash at 1080 OG?

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Re: Is the baker's yeast slower than brewer's/distillers yeast?

Post by kyolic » Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:11 am

still_stirrin wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:38 am

Whatcha’ fermenting?

Fruit mash.

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Re: Is the baker's yeast slower than brewer's/distillers yeast?

Post by kyolic » Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:13 am

8Ball wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:07 am
It might finish in 5 days. I’d use 20 grams. I’d also pay attention to all the great advice you’ve been given.

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20 grams for 40 liters of mash at 1080 OG? Is that really enough? I remember reading 70-80 grams for 40 liters. :?

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Re: Is the baker's yeast slower than brewer's/distillers yeast?

Post by Demy » Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:46 am

They all gave great advice in my opinion. I have used many types of yeast and brewer's yeast will make a good ferment even if it has its own flavor profile, then it depends on which yeast you use. Lately, especially for fruit ferments I am using bayanus yeast, used in winemaking and for sparkling wines and it has a really excellent profile. Each yeast will then be able to withstand a certain alcohol content after which it could block. I also believe that 20g is sufficient. Generally when beer is produced the quantity of yeast is quite oversized, hence perhaps the uncertainty about the quantities. If possible prefer a cool temperature but I think you are in a hurry so you could push the high limit (although I wouldn't).

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Re: Is the baker's yeast slower than brewer's/distillers yeast?

Post by still_stirrin » Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:59 am

kyolic wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:11 am
still_stirrin wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:38 am

Whatcha’ fermenting?

Fruit mash.
So, I’d recommend a wine yeast or the Lalvin EC-1118 champagne yeast, although these will ferment slower. But, they will give you a better fruit flavor in the must and wine which will make a better brandy flavor. However, just because a champagne yeast has a higher alcohol tolerance doesn’t mean you should push the gravity up there. In fact, you’ll get the best fruit flavors if you keep the OG in the 1.060-1.070 range. And then, run it in the potstill for the best flavor carryover.

Baker’s yeast will work for a fruit must, but it isn’t the best choice for the flavor potential. And beer yeasts or even distiller’s yeast likewise will work, but again are not the best choice.

I recommend reading Cranky’s “All about the fruity goodness” thread for hints and tips to processing and fermenting fruit. Apples, pears, grapes, berries, even kiwi can all benefit from the proper processes.
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Re: Is the baker's yeast slower than brewer's/distillers yeast?

Post by 8Ball » Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:04 am

kyolic wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:13 am
8Ball wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:07 am
It might finish in 5 days. I’d use 20 grams. I’d also pay attention to all the great advice you’ve been given.

🎱
20 grams for 40 liters of mash at 1080 OG? Is that really enough? I remember reading 70-80 grams for 40 liters. :?
I use 0.025 g per point gallon.
For your specific gravity, 1.080 & 40L (~10 gallons):
80*10*0.025=20.0 grams
Consider dropping your OG down to 1.065 or less.

Make a yeast starter while you are mashing in. Hydrate the yeast in 1L (~ 1QT) warm water-only for 15-30 minutes. Add 2 oz (60 ml) of converted mash (or wash). Aerate your mash well and pitch the starter. You should have a good grain cap within 4-6 hours as long as your temperature is optimal.

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Re: Is the baker's yeast slower than brewer's/distillers yeast?

Post by still_stirrin » Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:13 am

Kyolic,

Here’s a hotlink to Cranky’s thread I recommended you read: https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 94&t=48881
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Re: Is the baker's yeast slower than brewer's/distillers yeast?

Post by LWTCS » Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:02 am

ShineonCrazyDiamond wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:35 am

To answer directly, bakers, 5 days, in my shed, no problem. But I never really stand over it as it doesn't matter. It will be ready when it's ready, and I let it rest. I do a 2-3 week stress free (me and the yeast) schedule.

When people start talking fast ferments with high yield, i start to wonder about their intentions. And surely question their thoughts of quantity vs. quality.
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Notwithstanding the character influence different yeasts can impart, if you're looking to increase yield and/or expedite processing for the sake of your distilling schedule, simply put two or three more fermentation buckets into service.
Always have something working off, something clearing, and something ready to run. Once you dial in the rotation you really never have to stand over anything nor really touch anything beyond just a handful of minutes per week really.
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Re: Is the baker's yeast slower than brewer's/distillers yeast?

Post by Smokee » Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:45 am

I agree with Still_Stirrin on the EC 1118. I'm a die-hard Fleischmann's user for my whiskey but use champagne yeast for my fruit ferments. I did a cherry brandy a few years ago and it turned out well on EC. My first try was with baker's and it was no bueno. I didn't like it, did a little research and found the champagne yeast was preferred.

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Re: Is the baker's yeast slower than brewer's/distillers yeast?

Post by BourbonStreet » Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:46 pm

I’ve tried just about every yeast out there, and Fleischmann’s is hard to beat for whiskey. It’s not super fast, but it tastes good and clears well. I like to use Red Star Montrachet for my wines, though. I make a lot of reds.

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